Posted by Unwanted overflow cubs and what to do with them
WitchWolf (#5939)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-05-29 06:03:16
Well, we're all seeing what's been going on lately - The game is way overflooded with excess cubs that are getting cheaper by teh dozen and in the end, only clutter the game for no good reason at all.

Now, on one hand, there are those players who are complaining their custom studs' cubs can't sell for big buck any more. Personally, I don't care - this is not a lion selling game so... tough luck.

On the other hand are those who, like me, would like to push for realism and would like to see the overflow of breedings and excess cubs done away with for those reasons alone. Those in the 'selling camp' can jsut as well tell the 'realistic' camp the same thing - Tough luck.

And then, of course, are those players who jsut like to take a few relaxing moments to look at some pretty lions and produce even more pretty lions because that's the way they like it. And no one should dictate to anyone else how to "properly" play their game - whatever amuses you the most is perfectly fine, right?

All that said, we do have one big common problem with excess cubs on here. People can't sell them, others are forced to chase away even when they don't want to. market is out of wack (since cubs are, for now, the only thing we're really actively tradign with one another) and subsequently, so is the overall economy.

Of course, you can always chase the cubs away and many people on here do exactly that. Some others don't, however and others yet are overflowing the market with low-end cubs, even giving them away for free because they jsut don't want to chase the cute little furballs away for purely sentimental reasons.


So, what to do to make all of us happy here - those who love studding their lions out cheaply, those who'd like to see only 'worthy' cubs on the market, those who'd like to force the prices up (or further down) again...?

Well, one thing that could go long ways to achieve that would be to create a way to sell the excess cubs directly to the game itself. Please bear with me while I expand the concept further:

Create a "cubs game store" and call it something like... "Lion Conservation Project" for example. If you can't sell a cub to other players and don't want to chase them away, your third alternative is to sell the cub to the "Conservation Range" instead.

Now, the symbolic fee you'd recieve for doing that should not be something big - Don't expect to sell the cublet for 500 SBs or 5 GBs or something. What you would be doing is a bit of a charity service there - you'd donate the cubs to a project dedicated to preserving and conserving the species, a project that would later on use those cubs or theri offspring to reintroduce the lions back in the areas in which they got extinct.
...Or whatever other suitable blurb suits you. I'm a biologist, so I like this one best. :P

However, not all cubs are really worth teh same, are they now? Someone would 'donate' a high statted cub and someone else a very low-statted one and they both get the same symbolic payment for them? Not fair. Or how about the difference between custom and non-custom lions, numbers of markings... everything?

Well, we'd calculate the payment you recieve based on several factors:

If you donate a high-stat cub, you'd get more than for donating a low-end one.

Far as the blurb goes, let's say that you just donated a healthy, strong new individual that is almost certain to survive to reproduce and create healthy offspring in turn. Good for you! You just made a huge difference in lion conservation project!

However, what if you donate a low-stat but high-markign or custom-coloured cub instead? Again, you'd recieve more than for donating the low-marking or wild-coloured one.

And the blurb for that would say that you have just introduced some very fresh and very valubale new blood to the overall gene pool. We all know (I hope) that one of the biggest problems in conservation is the extremely depeleted gene pools of the endangered species that we start from and therefore, donating 'fresh blood' (in other words custom colours/markings and so on) should be valubale in their own rights.


Small clarification here:
Since it has been pointed out in enough many comments that the idea of a lion intentionally giving cubs to humans is highly unrealistic, let me explain it a bit better. What the blurb would say would be something along the lines of "Humans came and picked out some cubs". What would actually happen game-mechanics-wise is that you, the player, would pick which cubs to donate.

I did not want to put the blurb first because people might get the wrong idea that I'm suggesting random cubs be taken from their dens without their input or agreement.


What do I hope to accomplish with this? For one, give some sort of a "drainage" route for the excess cublets on here. With this feature in place, many players would opt to donate the cubs there rather than go through a hassle of tryig to sell them or give them away. That would automatically mean far less clogging of the market and that, in turn, might give the prices a chance to stabilize in a more reasonable manner.

Finally, it could provide a small starting income for the new players - not much, but at least something. And also, a way to make those who just love breeding a chance to play the way they like palying without creating some huge disbalances in the process.


edit
I crunched some numbers for the "Conservation Center" now:

plain coat: 3SB
custom coat: 5SB
stats: 1 SB per 2 stats over 35 (rounded down)
:markings 4SB per marking (regardless of opacity)

Just to give you a rough idea of how that would work:

"Best" case scenario:

Custom-coloured, 10-marking cub with 100 stats:

5 (custom coat) + 15 (stats) + 40 (10 markings) = 60 SB

"Worst" case scenario:

Wild-coloured, 0-3 markings cub with under 30 stats:

3 (wild coat) + 0 (stats) + 0-12 (markings) = 3-15 SB

I'd say the prices are nicely evened-out; you'd be getting a really token payment for a very valubale cub and you'd get just enough to play a few Cups or glance at a Scrying Stone for a sub-par one.

Because the whole idea is to provide a way to do away with the excess cubs, not to provide a way to make tons of SBs.


edit

idea by Nephala [TCC] (#11886):
"Addition to the conservation to get people tossing cubs there instead of the TC would be a yearly reward from the "breeding stock," in the conservation sent on your birthday or a certain day of the year if you have donated enough cubs to the conservation. I'd think the "prize" could be anything from high stat lionesses to custom colored ladies."

alternate suggestion by Lynx (Raion) (#1885):
And maybe instead of custom ladies the prize could be gb for "highest donator for the year" so that no one can say "that wouldn't be fair for the people who buy/work hard for gb" or something along the lines since it would happen once a year.. And maybe have a certain amount of winners?


addition by muttduck (#78):
NONE of them [NCLs] should be in heat when claimed.

---while this does not pertain to the idea directly, it still deals with the overflow cublets problem and thus I added it in.
~~~~~~



This, of course, is just rough bone frame of an idea. Developing it further - how to determine the payments recieved to make them both reasonable and balanced above all needs some further tought. And since I'd rather not sit and ponder it all on my ownsies, I'm putting this up for discussion to see what others might come up with along these lines.

I'll make few suggestions to start it off:

---We could have a leaderboard for the "most cubs donated" or "most healthy cubs doanted" or "most genetically diverse cubs donated"

---We could have something like... badges or fame or however you choose to call it - a third in-game currency of sorts that, if you gain enough of it, would give you access to some special perks or something. Yes, yes, this would mean making a whole new "badge" or "fame" thing beforehand but... it's an idea at least.

And now I'd like to swim in a flood of yours! :P




This suggestion has 696 supports and 5 NO supports.



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Edited on 07/06/13 by WitchWolf (#5939)

Insane (#100)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-05-29 06:25:07
I've had a similar thought pass through my mind, thank you for posting this! The only issue I could see is people breeding mass cubs to turn some profit. I would love to see this implemented as well as a studding limit to make people actually plan litters vs mass clicking the breed button.

Maybe even by making the wait time for females to go into heat shorter if her cubs were chased off would encourage players to chase cubs so they can try again sooner. Maybe increase the amount of good cubs and get rid of the rejects. Just throwing out ideas :)




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DragonSage (#4453)

Notable Lion
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Posted on
2013-05-29 06:26:13
I like the idea although considering we are supposed to be simulating a lion and his pride the idea of selling our cubs to humans for a reserve makes me laugh.



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WitchWolf (#5939)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-05-29 06:31:45
Yeah, it is laughable up to a point. But at least I tried making it for a worthy cause (laugh) - at least preservation makes some marginal sense; we need a cub drainage ditch, but making it a zoo or a circus would be even more ridiculous.

Aaand... Players are mass breeding as is, so why not let them make a small, token profit on it? It won't stop the cubs from being mass-produced but it would perhaps stop them from overflooding the game.

Also, the cubs or the adolescents that would end up in the "Center" could well be used as templates for random NCLs as well - use the already produced cub/lion code instead of generating a brand new one every time?



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Bamon (#12532)

Nice Guy
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Posted on
2013-05-29 06:37:39
I like the idea, it is very well thought out. A thought however; it does seem to be the price of studs that has for the most part caused the problem with so many cubs. Before we got the new (and awesome) stud system, you had to send your lioness to someone else and wait for a longer period for the cubs. The prices were higher, I think, then because of the fact the owner of the stud had to look after the lioness until she gave birth. Now, I do love the new stud system. Its a lot easier, but honestly I have no idea how high or low to set the stud fee for my lions. Perhaps a lot of others have this same problem, and so maybe there could be a guide of sorts created so we can price our breedings for our studs better? After all, I know Greyback on my side account would be worth more then Sol Invictus breeding wise despite both being custom yet I just have no idea how to price them and so have set them for a simple 100 SB. I think with a guide on how to find the value of your stud would be great.

Infact to go further, perhaps we could have something like the scrying stone but instead of predicting the future it evaluates your lion or lioness or even cub. It could give you a general evaluation of how much your lion is worth, say between 100 - 150 SB sort of thing. This could not only help out the influx of excess cubs but maybe even sort out the 'sales' arena as it were as well.

Anyway, its just an idea that popped into mind upon reading this thread.



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Silvain (#2239)

Scourge of Lions
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Posted on
2013-05-29 06:37:46
I support the idea wholeheartedy, as to realism on this point... lions handling silver and gold beetles, huh? A lion preservation project is much more realistic then lions trading cubs...



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Edited on 29/05/13 by Silvain (#2239)

delirium [clean G3
3x ros pie] (#5901)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2013-05-29 06:39:27
You make some really good points. I like your ideas. A "Cub Reservation Center" is a very good solution to all our unwanted cubs. I admit that sometimes I don't like chasing away cubs, and I think this would really help me let go of meh cubbies, because some of them are really quite good cubs.
I'd support a Reservation Center. Thanks for putting your ideas out here!



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!magine (#10959)

Prince
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Posted on
2013-05-29 06:48:06
I support ^^
Also, what if there was additionally something added like, both lions and lionesses need to be at least Level 3 in order to breed or something like that? That way it would stop people studding their low stat low level lions, and newbies breeding the first female in heat they claim just for the hell of it (While I hold the opinion that wild lionesses should NOT be in heat but instead at the very start of their cycle, so that it takes as long as possible till they come into heat). It would stop low stat & unwanted cubs being bred so much like they are now.



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*AuroraBlood*G3
jellyfish Prim (#5840)

Usual
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Posted on
2013-05-29 06:48:31
i support this idea i think it would bevery helpful for the users who dont what to chase off but cant sell there cubs



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DragonSage (#4453)

Notable Lion
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Posted on
2013-05-29 06:51:19
Bamon the biggest reason there is no 'pricing guide' is that there is a lot of subjectivity in prices and the prices/fees are also determined by what is popular at the moment and that can change rapidly.



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Siliandra (#1137)

Pervert
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Posted on
2013-05-29 07:11:14
I'd propose one thing: rather that saying you'd brought the cub to them, it could as well be that they came over to take the one they wanted (the one you choose) and they left some treats (beetles) behind :)



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Creme [Interstellar] (#9394)

Amiable
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Posted on
2013-05-29 18:26:06
SUPPORT!



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hiday56789 (#11388)

Good Natured
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Posted on
2013-05-29 18:36:20
4:35 am, too tired to write much. So for now I support. No new ideas in this tired brain of mine for now. XD



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WitchWolf (#5939)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-05-29 19:39:00
Thank you all for the replies. Obviously, the idea still needs to be worked on further. I like Siliandra's idea for the blurb: instead of "giving" the cubs, conservationalists came and "took" the cubs they wanted and so on.

!magine, I wouldn't limit breeding to level 3 and above - After all, if someone likes playing that way, let them. There shouldn't be "right" and "wrong" way to play after all. But with this feature implemented, I think the problem of excess cubs gained that way would resolve itself so no need to limit breeding any more - we'd have a "Cub Dumpyard"


I am also thinking, since now we have the option of finding other player's chased-off girls in the wild, some of the wild lionesses might as well come from the "dumpyard" here; it would, at the very least, highten the odds of some lucky new players (and why not, older players as well) stumbling across and claiming a custom or half-custom girl so they can get a bit of a headstart in the "pretty" department.



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DragonSage (#4453)

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Posted on
2013-05-29 20:08:54
I'm fairly certain that any lionesses that had custom coats when chased off; lose them



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WitchWolf (#5939)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-05-29 20:14:05
DragonSage, the newspost from 2013-05-10

Scrolling down to the very bottom, it reads:

" Chasing off Lionesses & Claiming Lionesses
Adult lionesses that are chased off will appear in explore to be claimed by other users. Stats and levels will be reset down to the norm for newly claimed lionesses and they WON'T come with any cubs, but they will look the same as they did and retain their lineage information (mother/father). As a note, you won't be able to reclaim a lioness you previously chased off. Completely new lionesses will still appear and lionesses that smacked you MAY re-appear, if someone else doesn't get there first. ;) To avoid lionesses that nobody wants - lionesses that have been waiting to be claimed for 7 days will disappear.
"

(emphasis mine)


In fact, I am now indulging myself with a new side-project based on that: I picked up a few pretty NCLs and bred them. Any resulting cubs that have custom/half-custom colours, I intend to wean to 2 years old for the sole purpose of releasing them into the wild for other users to claim.
Since the stats are being reset to the NCL norm, it matters not that the cublets will be with poor stats - it's the same stats they'd get reduced to anyway.



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Edited on 30/05/13 by WitchWolf (#5939)







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