Posted by Deadly Genetics
Kamau (#16726)

Prince of the Savannah
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Posted on
2013-09-07 13:30:41
There are a lot of amazing ideas on LioDen genetics that I fully support. I love the idea of getting in more colors, fur types, eye colors, different markings.

There's been some concern over these possible new features becoming 'too common'. (I've heard this over the special lionesses).

I'm sort of a new player; I just joined like last month, so I don't know how the economy was before the Maltese was introduced. I'm told that it was meant to be a rare color and stay that way.

What if, in order to keep certain features rare, there was a chance of cub mortality? Like if you breed two special-coats together, there's a chance the cubs will be still-born or something.

In horses, there's a thing called Lethal White Syndrome. It's mostly connected to pinto horses, especially ones who are mostly white. Most mostly-white horses die within hours of birth. In fact, a lot of animals have weird genetic disorders attached to coat colors or other genetic traits: If a Scottish fold cat is homozygous* for the folded ears trait, they have cartilage problems, blue merle Australian shepherds who are homozygous may be born deaf and blind.

(*for those who have no genetics background, quick rundown of the word 'homozygous'. We all have things called genes. On those genes are alleles. Alleles basically tell our bodies 'ok, present THIS TRAIT'. For simplicity's sake, each trait has two alleles, one inherited from each parent. 'Homozygous' just means both alleles are saying 'present this trait'; heterozygous would mean your alleles are saying different things

THIS IS A VERY, VERY BASIC RUN-DOWN. I know it's not one hundred percent accurate, as genetics is super complicated).

This would cut down on the chances of there being 'too many special' lion/esses out there, while still giving people a chance to breed for them. It also means people would have to keep careful track of breeding records.

[PS: if the authors of the above threads want their links removed, just ask and I'll remove them]

Pros:
Keeps certain colors rare while allowing people the chance of getting one
Keeps up cub prices for those who carry the gene but just don't express it
Encourages careful breeding

Cons:
Dead cubs
Difficult to code
There is the argument that LioDen is not meant to be a breeding sim; it's a Lion Simulation game.
Rarity can be achieved by simply altering the pass rates of the genes. No dead cubs need be involved. (if you support this, click here)
Others?



This suggestion has 582 supports and 2 NO supports.



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Edited on 08/09/13 by Kamau (#16726)

ShimmerStrike II
~{D}~ (#18050)

Indifferent
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Posted on
2013-09-07 17:02:30
Support!!!

Like Great Danes, if you breed harlequin with harlequin, you get white, deaf, blind, or dead pups (I've known three to survive this with no issues) and same with Merle (correct me if I'm wrong on the harlequin part xD)



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Kamau (#16726)

Prince of the Savannah
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Posted on
2013-09-07 19:32:31
No, you're completely correct. :D Harlequin great danes carry a copy of the merle gene. This is why harlequin x harlequin breedings are discouraged (I've even heard they are straight-up illegal in Germany, but don't quote me on that).

That's a perfect example of a breeding that looks safe from the outside, but has some dangerous genetics. Thank you for the perfect example!



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Everlasting (#18334)

Incredible
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Posted on
2013-09-08 11:42:20
Technically, the Lethal White Syndrome is more connected with pintos who have lots of white, not pure white horses. Horses are never pure white unless they are albino, and white horses are really very pale gray that looks white.



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Kamau (#16726)

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Posted on
2013-09-08 12:09:14
Thank you for the correction. I'm not much of a horse person. XD



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Gemini (#5117)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-09-09 07:31:31
I did a project on lethal white and it is very sad indeed and I support this idea fully.

MerlexMerle breedings are also highly discouraged in the dog world because they also have a high chance of still born, deafness and deformities.

Nice idea ^^



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Mots - RP Loved🏒 (#5378)

Prince of the Savannah
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Posted on
2013-09-09 08:02:42
I support this. And I know about the Lethal White syndrome also. Even cremello horses aren't true white, they are just a very, very pale cream color.

But I support this idea. And I think there are also some genetic abnormalities if you breed white tigers with other white tigers. The white itself is a genetic mutation and they stand no chance or very little chance of survival in the wild as is.

And I'd think that a Maltese lion would be a very rare genetic anomaly like it was originally intended for.



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Kamau (#16726)

Prince of the Savannah
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Posted on
2013-09-09 14:04:42
Thank you for the support and comments! I had a lot of fun researching the various genetic quirks of things. Genetics has always been a little passion of mine.

For this idea to really be at its best, I think it ought to be combined with Axel's idea for lionesses entering heat more quickly if their cubs are chased (or, in this case, stillborn or something). (Click here to support that idea, btw)

Thoughts on this?



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Ronnie J (#1393)

Majestic
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Posted on
2013-09-09 14:13:46
Considering that I want to major in genetics (or biotechnology) I support, plus it would hopefully stop people from impulse breeding.



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Villis (#17034)

Usual
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Posted on
2013-09-09 18:12:41
LWS is actually particularity sad because it is completely avoidable. It's linked to the overo frame pattern, a type of spotting pattern that isn't always easy to visibly identify. It can be hidden by other patterns, or can be minimally expressed so that a solid colored horse with only a few white marks can be a carrier. Which means you can't assume that only horses with bold white markings are carriers. But the solution is simple...there is a DNA test for the gene. By avoiding breeding carriers to carriers, you eliminate the risk of lethal white syndrome. There's no excuse these days for breeding lethal white foals (and indeed for several other genetically linked diseases in horses such as HERDA and HYPP)

There ARE true white horses that are not albinos. It's just very rare, and there are several different ways it can happen in terms of the genetics. The Camarillo White Horse is a true white breed, not gray or cream, but again the genetics involved are not without risk. Breeding a true white horse to a true white has a 25% chance of producing a foal that dies in the womb. This is a different syndrome from LWS, which are typically born living and die shortly after. Indeed, Camarillos don't carry the gene for LWS.

So, yes, I support, because in nature rare coats are typically rare for a reason. They either don't suit the environment, or the genetics involved are risky.




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Elenvalta (#17120)

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Posted on
2013-09-15 14:43:44
I love how there are people who are knowledgeable about horses here. Finally, I've found my people<3

And I agree to this completely. It would add such a new level to the game, to try and breed lions, but without getting certain markings. It'll add more of a genetic feel to the game.

And @Ronnie, I'm interested in genetics too! (: Biotechnology is actually my program area at the magnet school I go to.



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Kamau (#16726)

Prince of the Savannah
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Posted on
2013-09-15 14:55:53
Ooo so many other science nerds! o3o Biotech is fascinating.



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OlympiaSpecials~Spec
ial Ups~ (#18729)

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Posted on
2013-09-17 15:38:32
Am I the only one who disagrees with this? There is already a breeding cool down so to have to wait for your special lioness to come into heat then to finally get to breed her only for her cubs to die? It's just so sadD; Then you have to wait for breeding cooldown then go through waiting for her to go into heat again, then wait 3 more days for her to give birth. Not to mention the fact that any lions/lionesses with a special coat color/marking are very expensive so it makes it a bit hard for the colors to spread. They won't become as popluar as the maltese because you can't customize them. I like how things are now and would be devastated if i had still births. Not only would it be all your hard work going to waste but also would be heart breaking. I don't like the idea of anything dying even if it is virtual. Sorry but no support.



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Aliya (Spotted
pride) (#9211)

Malicious
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Posted on
2013-09-17 15:50:08
I do support the idea, because there are too many cubs on lioden, and its getting hard to sell even higher stated cubs (300+ birth stated) for the price they deserve (and were getting like 2-3 weeks ago -_-)
The thing with Maltese and EVERY other oasis base is that anyone can get oasis customs (if they have the GB to customize) that is why its no longer 'rare', pretty much everyone went and re-customized for the hideous colour (sorry to those who like/love maltese I just dont like it =P or Mahogany for that matter)

Any way, I think the special coats and marks will stay relatively rarer compared to the oasis coats ect... I see a lot of special cubs but they have poor mark percentages so who knows...
Ok I will stop rambling now =P



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Kamau (#16726)

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Posted on
2013-09-17 15:53:44
I'm actually really happy to hear dissenting views, Karagamer! Thank you for sharing. It takes a lot of courage to disagree with people. :3

Yeah, the looong cool-down time is a bit of a sticky-point. There's a suggestion going around to cut the cool-down time in half if all the cubs are either chased or die in a litter though. I think that would mix in nicely.



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Gennysis (#5324)

King Of Hearts
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Posted on
2013-09-22 22:51:06
I don't support it.

There are aspects that are interesting like genetic issues. But as someone who's never had a still born I don't want to have one now.

If it was about the possibility of the stats being far lower than would normally be possible (a cubs stats can be 50 up or down of the parents stats) this would make it harder to breed a whole pack of high stated rare colour lions.

For me I won't breed unless the stats are good, if I can't find the colour I want AND high stats and marks I won't breed. I find stats sell cubs better than colour.

Doing this would also help curb the problem of the lions stats getting more and more into the extreme. I've got an intense breeding system going on to up my stats generation by generation.

sorry If I'm rambling off topic, but I just feel that something is needed, but I don't want it to be cub deaths.

I'd have gone with:
higher chance of throwing a different (and even non custom) colour coat
Chance of stats being lower than if you'd breed it to a more common colour.



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