Posted by Solution to Scamming and the Economy

🅱️oneless (#123346)


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Posted on
2018-12-22 20:49:49

*cracking knuckles* Let's see how this one goes over.

Lioden's economy has become ass in some aspects; everyone can agree to this declaration.
Experienced players likely recall the days when a middle-aged, Sunset-based lioness -- for example -- could go for 30+ . Nowadays, you see them going for 10 per cub.
Opal Saltlicks also didn't help for eye breeders.
As a comparative measure, what happens when entire countries suffer from severe devaluing of the market? In the US, the Federal Reserve steps in.

What is the Federal Reserve?
"The Federal Reserve System is the central bank of the United States. It [among other functions] ... conducts the nation’s monetary policy to promote maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates in the U.S. economy; promotes the stability of the financial system and seeks to minimize and contain systemic risks through active monitoring and engagement in the U.S. and abroad... and fosters payment and settlement system safety and efficiency through services to the banking industry and the U.S. government that facilitate U.S.-dollar transactions and payments." (FederalReserve.gov)

In comprehensible terms, the Federal Reserve keeps the US economy stable by protecting businesses, protecting consumers, and altering interest rates to match the economy's natural rate of inflation; otherwise, severe inflation or deflation could occur, leading to detrimental consequences (1929, anyone?). It does not control the US market, it helps to regulate it to prevent catastrophe.

TLDR: I brought this up to propose that Lioden should implement more minimum restrictions like those on stud prices for the Trade Center to serve as our own little 'Federal Reserve'.
They could have rules such as:

- Having minimum SB/GB prices for lions with Special and/or Rare bases
- Not permitting Oasis items to be sold for more than their Oasis sell price
- Having minimum SB/GB prices for lions with Tier 4/5/6 markings

Primarily, I am suggesting that they have minimums for Rare/Special bases and both minimums and maximums for Oasis items.


As my friend over on Discord puts it:
Screenshot-2018-12-22-at-10-24-25-PM.png
Screenshot-2018-12-22-at-10-28-07-PM.png
Screenshot-2018-12-22-at-10-28-13-PM.png




This suggestion has 37 supports and 136 NO supports.



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Edited on 22/12/18 @ 22:00:57 by 🅱️oneless (Shit on me) (#123346)

Adriannu (#135017)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2018-12-22 20:56:46
The problem with doing trades with the gifting type trade is that it would leave more room for people to get scammed by not sending in their part of the deal.

Also you have to realize that new and popular bases were released which is why people are not paying as much for sunsets. Now the hot new things are stuff like interstellar which quickly lost a lot of their value probably due to stuff like crunchy worms. It's also how everyone loves tigons and as a result leopons are being overshadowed by the shiny new hybrid.



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Ruesivonitu (#148692)

Blessed
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Posted on
2018-12-22 21:01:28
Thats why this will help... this will balance everything just a tiny bit.. this economy honestly puts breeders into a painful situation.. You are right.. every time a base or mutation is added.. the prices go down.. Sure.. BUT, With this.. this will prevent that and at least help just a tiny bit.. You wouldn't need to do a gifting type trade if the economy is fixed correctly... There's now point in trying to lower the Minimum price if its the same for everyone.



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Edited on 22/12/18 @ 21:02:27 by Ruesivonitu (#148692)

🅱️oneless (#123346)


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Posted on
2018-12-22 21:03:07
@Adriannu
The same could be said right now for studding and art sales, though, yeah? When that happens, one modboxes it, and that's what they'd do if Lioden implemented these price locks!



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Rolled 3/27 (#121082)


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Posted on
2018-12-22 21:04:11
For my example as to why this shouldn't be implemented:

Sunrises.
The base was new and in high demand at one point. Going for like 200-300 for a sunrise lion.
People OVERBRED them and as more people got them, the demand went down and selling them for that much became impossible. People lowered and lowered to be able to sell them.
Perhaps sunrise isn't the best example due to people sabotaging the market on purpose, but you get my point.

Not to mention Lioden has a free market.
People sell things for more than they're worth in the Oasis? Oh well. They just won't ever sell it lol.



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Ruesivonitu (#148692)

Blessed
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Posted on
2018-12-22 21:06:57
Actually.. People who over price items from a oasis do sell it.. TO new players..

They overprice them to scam the poor guys.. It happened to me and plenty of other people when they first joined... this only effects the minimum price not the maximum.. Heck if you want to sell something for a high amount ok.. this is to help even out the sales and keep everything just a tad bit more organized tbh



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Rolled 3/27 (#121082)


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Posted on
2018-12-22 21:08:27
Still no support.
It's a free market.
Don't want Lioden staff controlling the market lmao



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Ruesivonitu (#148692)

Blessed
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Posted on
2018-12-22 21:12:02
They wouldn't be completely controlling it, just fixing it tbh, Its just doing the same EXACT thing they do on studs.



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Edited on 22/12/18 @ 21:12:15 by Ruesivonitu (#148692)

EasyPlesi (#23249)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2018-12-22 21:34:29



I think an easier solution would just to be limiting the items that boost chances of passing a marking/base/eye color/mutation. Or, at least, make them more expensive to purchase in event shops. (and maybe remove them from the monkey shop? Although, since there are no rare/exclusive skin colors, im not too worried about that one.)

Because, like Glimmer said, Lioden is a Free Market Economy.

Free market refers to an economy where the government imposes few or no restrictions and regulations on buyers and sellers. In a free market, participants determine what products are produced, how, when and where they are made, to whom they are offered, and at what price—all based on supply and demand.

Besides, it would be intensely hard to price lions this way. Why? Supply and demand.

Lets say they implimented this system - giving everything a fixed price.
(smaller numbers because they don't hurt my head - math, why.)

Special Bases = 1,000 sb
Rare Bases = 500 sb
Uncommon Bases = 300 sb
Common Bases = 100 sb

-

Tier 1 = 0 sb
Tier 2 = 100 sb
Tier 3 = 200 sb
Tier 4 = 300 sb
Tier 5 = 400 sb

-

I'm not calc'ing stats because stats are just a mess right now.

We're going to use one of my breeders as an example.

She has a common base (+100 sb), a tier 1 marking (+0 sb), and four tier 3 markings (+600sb). That would make her, as a cub, worth 700 sb.

I bought her for 200; there's no way in hell I would have paid 700 for this potato.

Then there are other factors - mutations, clean/dirty, stats (dont even get me started on pricing stats), even age. Would they fluctuate? Or remain the same per lion? A lion aged 2mo and an identical one aged 14yr? And if they fluctuated, what would those factors include?

I dont mind minimum prices on items so much, but that would still kinda suck.

It's just not feasible.




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GlassMountain [Main] (#47586)


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Posted on
2018-12-22 21:45:51
But who decides how much something is worth?? You can't predict how popular a base is going to be when it's released, or a marking, or a mutation. If staff puts, for example, a minimum price on a base that's in the gb range and a majority of players don't like it enough to spend that, how is the owner supposed to sell it? Risk being scammed? You have to leave it up to the players. No one will value a special lion exactly the same way someone else does. Lots of players love Haze and pay a ton of gb for it, I personally wouldn't spend more than 5gb, and someone else might pay somewhere in the middle. Staff would have to constantly be watching every base/marking/mutation and adjust the minimum price according to the current market and amount of it in game. This is not remotely worth the effort in my opinion. As someone who was very directly affected by the Sunrise market crash I totally get where you are coming from, it's frustrating when you work hard and invest a ton into getting a certain feature on a lion and the market tanks but that's just how it is. :/ I'm afraid no support from myself.



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🅱️oneless (#123346)


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Posted on
2018-12-22 21:55:36
Those are some valid points, @Queen and @Glass. Not sure right now about how I could counter Queen's very well-structured and fluent argument. Maybe it could apply only to bases and not markings/whatever



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Ginger Frost (#119616)

Maneater
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Posted on
2018-12-22 21:57:33
I strongly disagree, sorry. Just as the community decides the value of GB in SB at certain times/events (example: when the otter is around and you can buy stuff with sb, the cost of buying one GB for SB goes down because SB is worth more at that point in time), people decide the values of certain items, lions, and markings.

Sunset bases were sold for so much before because they were simply more valued back then. The new and exciting base that everyone wanted to have. But now? We've got other bases to look at yo. Not everyone wants a sunset anymore, and not everyone will sell their left arm to get one.

Same goes with tigons overshadowing leopons. Right now, Tigons are worth way more than leopons but wait a few months and they'll probably be equal or worth less (since with tigons, there was the boosts and there are more first gen tigons than there were leopons when leopons came out)

The trading system is like a marketplace where people can buy and sell things at the prices they deem fair.



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Ruesivonitu (#148692)

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Posted on
2018-12-22 21:59:48
I think only bases would fix that problem, To be honest... And maybe markings like all the rosettes and the mottled marks Could be affected as well. Oh and eyes.. some eyes and muties.



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Edited on 22/12/18 @ 22:01:26 by Ruesivonitu (#148692)

🅱️oneless (#123346)


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Posted on
2018-12-22 22:01:18
Edited the post to state that the focus of my suggestion is for bases and Oasis items



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😸 Chonk 😸 (#54568)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2018-12-22 22:16:05
This is interesting. It would prevent deflation due to overbreeding thats for sure. Less desirable lions that fit certain criteria and end up not saleing at the minimum price would be given away or killed. This presents an issue with the lions being ofted in ways other than straight sales: giveaways, raffles, etc. Ive always thought that there should be a limit on how many cubs a user can breed in any certain period of time. Mass breeding is the main cause of market deflation. If not a restriction, perhaps a cost: mae it similar to hunting, a user can breed say 10 lionesses a day-more than that and they have to start paying. Say 50sb per breed per lioness for the next 10, 100 for the 10 after that, etc.



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Gahlu [HM | Clean] (#155415)

Impeccable
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Posted on
2018-12-23 10:21:36
Yeah also strongly disagree. Free market rules. If such changes are implemented it should on the breeding end, not telling people what they can sell/buy something for. And incidentally the Fed hardly protects anyone from anything.



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