Posted by Successful Breeding for Specific Colors

Alma (#7695)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2015-05-10 17:33:48
The new system is here, and while it might take a little getting used to, once you get the hang of it, it can help you target your breeding goals effectively. In case you haven't gotten a chance to explore this system, I've added a game guide about it here: Lioden Genetics Game Guide
* Hint: So I don't have to keep going back and forth between pages to find the color charts, I keep an index card with the color charts written and organized on it right in front of my keyboard for reference.


In this guide, I'd like to suggest a couple of techniques that can decrease the number of unwanted colors and increase your success rate, dropping hints as I go, while encouraging others to do the same.


First, you need to determine what your breeding goals are (this is the best part!). Are you looking for a lot of surprises and trying to create the most possible colors out of the fewest lionesses? Are you a "Naturalist" and looking to create the most natural-looking colors you can? Are you looking for bases that have gradients that resemble markings built-in to the base color, or are you looking for uniform colors that show off those coveted markings you've managed to establish in your pride? Do you prefer light markings that show up better on dark bases or dark markings that show up better on light bases? Do you want a pride that has only black or red base colors or only one color? Are you a Specials breeder? This is the beauty of this system: everyone has their preferences and everyone can target those coveted colors with a strategy as individualized as they are (we're all snowflakes, after all)! XD


With that said, let's consider the four factors that make up this model and how we can make them work for us.

Because many people are targeting one specific color or a small range thereof, let's explore this strategy. In this example, I am going to target Black. A general rule of thumb, just as it is in real life, is that breeding like to like will usually yield the best results (we'll look at exceptions to this rule later in this guide). Here's how the mechanics of a Black X Black cross work:

Black X Black photo BlackXBlack.jpg
* Hint: If I wouldn't mind having a Special pop up here and there, I might consider breeding to a Slate because not only will I get Black and Vandal, but I'd get a Slate cub roughly 15% of the time.

Solid colors are always nice to have in your pride if you're looking to showcase markings, especially if the cub has a lot of them, so let's switch it up a bit and breed to add some Solids. I'm not currently looking for bases in other Color Groups, so
I need a color from the Black Color Group, but I need a Solid to produce a Solid. I'm also looking for something nice and dark so the light markings show up well, so I'll make my choice from the Dark range. Chestnut is Black/Solid/Dark/Common, so that's what I've chosen, although Dark Brown will produce the exact same results. Here's what this looks like:

Black X Chestnut photo BlackXChestnutComplete.jpg
* Hint: If I decided that I'd like to try for a Black/Solid/Dark, but I wouldn't mind a chance of producing a Special, I could substitute an Onyx breeding for the Chestnut, which will also produce Onyx and Slate cubs, albeit at a reduced rate than Special X Special.

Perhaps, at some point, I might decide that I'd like some lighter colors in my dark pride, but I'd still like to stay in the Black Color Group. In this case, I'm only going to vary the shade (Light) and not the gradient (Countershade) to keep the number of possibilities to a minimum, and I'm choosing the only common-colored option there is: Gray . Here's what that cross would look like:

Black X Grey photo BlackXGreyComplete.jpg
* Hint: This breeding can be even nicer if I substitute a Maltese or Cocoa for the Gray, as it will add the occasional Slate, Maltese, and Cocoa to the possible outcomes I can expect, and those colors look really nice in a black-based pride.

Now that I've had success with my previous pairings, especially if I threw in the Specials breedings I hinted at, I've probably got a pretty nice, black-based pride forming. Because we all like to challenge ourselves, and I've decided to go for as much variation as I can within the Black Color Group, so I'm going to try to produce them all. This means I'm going to have to change more than one factor at the same time. In this case, I'm going to choose a lovely Silver because it differs from Black in Gradient (Black is Countershaded where Silver is Solid) and Shade (Black is Dark where Silver is Light). I would get the same results if I chose Vanilla or White. Let's see how this looks:

Black X Silver photo BlackXSilverComplete.jpg
* Hint: If I wanted to add Specials to this cross, I would choose Lilac (Black/Solid/Light/Special) to occasionally produce Slate, Onyx, Maltese, Cocoa, and Lilac, although Lilac has a reduced drop rate and will always be rare!


We've thoroughly explored the options within a single Color Group, and now we can start thinking about multicolored prides! Let's keep our black-based pride for our main account and choose a red pride for our second account. This is going to get a little more complicated, but the results will be worth it!

In my second pride, I've got a nice Prune king that I'm dying to breed, and while I like the common colors, especially that pretty new Brass that just got released, I really want to try for as many Specials as I can get my greedy little hands on!

If I breed my Prune to another Prune, I can keep my red pride very monochromatic, as the only outcomes will be roughly 3/4 Brass and 1/4 Prune. If I wanted to focus solely on Prune, this is the ideal match, but let's say I want to have ALL of the Red Color Group specials. I'm going to need a gameplan.

We already learned that to get all of the colors in a Color Group, we need to breed colors with differing Gradient/Shade/Rarity. Since Prune is Red/Countershaded/Dark/Special, to get the most variation with the best chance of Specials, I'll need a Red/Solid/Light/Special, which means I need to get my hands on a nice Sunshine. Let's see what this complicated cross looks like:

Prune X Sunshine w/Fiery photo PruneXSunshineComplete_1.jpg

But wait! Where's Sepia? Sepia involves a situation I haven't had to deal with yet: the really rare Specials, and Sepia is one we find in the Red Color Group. These Specials include Celestial, Lilac, Blush Rose, Hallowed, Sepia, Inferno, and Pearl. In order to produce a cub with one of the rare colors, one of the parents MUST be that color. This means that if I want Sepia, I have to breed to one. I can either use an outside stud for a Prune lioness I produce or buy, or I need to buy a Sepia lioness.

If I bought a Sepia lioness and bred her to my Prune king, all the factors match (Red/Dark/Special) except the Gradient: Prune is Countershaded and Sepia is Solid. In this case, we'd expect to see all of the Red/Dark colors, including Brass, Brown, and Mahogany along with Prune and Sepia. If I wanted to use that Sepia lioness to throw all of the colors in the Red Color Group, including the Specials, I'd need to breed her to her opposite in her group (Red/C.Shade/Light/Special), which would be Fiery.


For the last examples, let's say that I've got a Fulvous, Inferno, or Hallowed king. I look them up on the color charts, and I'm not all that pleased to see that their common group mates are Goldens, in the case of Fulvous or Inferno, and Creams, in the case of Hallowed. Before you retire your king early, you might want to remember that just because you're not happy with the Color Group they're in doesn't mean that's all you can create with them! To diversify your "fails" out of a range you don't like, choose a partner that matches them in every way EXCEPT for one factor, such as Color Group or Gradient (I like to call these "one off" breedings). Here's my suggestions for each of these colors, although these aren't the only solutions:

Fulvous X Cocoa photo FulvousXCocoaComplete.jpg
* Hint: If you'd like to try other Specials along with the Cocoa, Maltese yields exactly the same results as Cocoa. Maroon would produce Deep Fawn and Maroon along with the Goldens and Fulvous. A Fiery lioness is a very nice compliment to this type of pride and will produce Sandy, Deira, and Copper commons along with Fiery and Fulvous Specials and the Goldens listed above.

Inferno X Blush Rose photo InfernoXBlushRoseComplete.jpg
* Hint: Inferno kings also look nice alongside Prune lionesses, and you'll add Brass commons as well as Prune Specials. If you want to dilute the number of NCL colors an Inferno throws, try a Celestial or a Slate, which will produce Black and Vandal commons and Slate Specials (plus Celestials if you breed to a Celestial).

Hallowed X Russet photo HallowedXRussetComplete.jpg
* Hint: Are you looking to add more colors than Creams with your Hallowed King? Lilac would make another nice compliment, adding Silver, Vanilla, and White to your commons as well as Lilac Specials.


Finally, there may be some that are addicted to surprises and want as much color variation from their pride as possible. If this was my goal, I'd want parents that have nothing in common and choose parents with different Color Groups, one Countershaded and one Solid, one Dark and one Light, and for the very most variation, one Special and one common parent. Here's one example of this type of breeding:

Cocoa X Mahogany photo CocoaXMahoganyComplete_1.jpg
* Hint: With the current bases and arrangement, it appears that Fulvous and Russet would produce the most variation with 21 commons and 5 Specials.


I hope this guide has been helpful and helped all of you to come up with some strategies to get the most out of your prides. As always, if any of you have any questions I can help answer, please don't hesitate to PM me and I'd be happy to help!



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Edited on 11/05/15 by Alma (#7695)

Cinnamon Cookies (#56794)

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Posted on
2015-05-10 23:10:45
Thanks *-*



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Slade (#36600)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2015-05-11 04:49:17
Wow Fiery and russet?!?! What a neat combo! I think russet looks great for my ladies! How exciting!! *hugs* Alma



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Alma (#7695)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2015-05-11 05:49:56
Yay, Tae! You found a combo you like? I really hope that makes you feel better - I hated watching you struggle with that.

For the record, I'm probably going to be doing a lil' base changing to Russet to compliment my Hallowed king - it's a really nice, versatile base, right?



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RedKestrel (Alma's
Side) (#10918)

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Posted on
2015-05-11 06:25:20
Ack... double-post from my side...



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Edited on 11/05/15 by RedKestrel (#10918)

Slade (#36600)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2015-05-11 22:02:20
Alma, I cant thank you enough! It takes some getting used to, but now there is much more base color variety and thats a huge step! Being able to get some different contrast in the base selection is perfect.

Thanks so much for the adjustment!

I might do the same as well ;)



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Snowcat13-5x
cimmerian G1 (#52694)

Prince of the Savannah
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Posted on
2015-05-14 04:29:48
Alma-
I just wondered if you'd clarify one thing. If I'm trying for a special special (LOL, like celestial or lilac maybe) just one has to be that color, but you'd get the same increased odds using any special for second one? Like there is no additional benefit going lilac x lilac to get lilac? I could use lilac x slate and have same odds?



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Alma (#7695)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2015-05-14 09:23:27
Hi, Snowcat - I didn't see this post here, so I'm sorry for the late reply. With Super-Specials, from what I've read, you increase your chances from breeding like to like. If you don't have another Lilac, you'd have a better chance with Maltese or Cocoa because they're only different from Lilac in one way: they're C.Shaded where Lilac is Solid. If you want more variety in your Specials choices, though, go with the Slate or Celestial because you'll have a chance to get all of the Black Color Group Specials.

Does this help at all? Also, feel free to PM me ANY time because I never want to miss out on helping!



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Morr 🔥
9BOx2Mottx2RosMand (#26583)


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Posted on
2015-05-14 10:10:38
Russet and fiery for the best fiery combos?

I didnt see/can't find that pairing, what will it throw into the possibles?



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Msasi (#21461)

True King
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Posted on
2015-05-14 10:26:54
Russet (Cream Dark Solid Special) and Fiery (Red Light Countershaded Special) are different in three of the traits, so they'll throw pretty much the entire range that each of their color groups have. They can produce:

Caramel, Chocolate, Khaki, Russet, Dove Gray, Rosy Brown, Cream, Dream Darker, Cream Lighter, Light Cream, Deep Fawn and Maroon from the Cream group

and

Brown, Mahogany, Brass, Prune, Beige, Fallow, Sunshine, Copper, Deira, Sandy, and Fiery from the Red group.

Only ones they can't throw from their groups are Sepia, Blush Rose and Hallowed (they're Super Specials, meaning one of the parents has to have that coat in order for it to pass).

Fiery x Fiery would be best if you're wanting to get Fiery cubs. But you can expand out into other Light Countershaded Specials (Cocoa, Maltese, Maroon, Fulvous) or go Red Dark Countershaded Special (Prune) or Red Light Solid Special (Sunshine) to give you a bit more variety while still keeping a slightly higher chance for Special cubs.

You can always expand out further, of course, but kinda depends on what kind of fails you want to see / the variety you want in your fails if what you really want is a Fiery.



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Morr 🔥
9BOx2Mottx2RosMand (#26583)


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Posted on
2015-05-14 10:53:16
hmm, ok thanks Msasi!



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🦖Sqidney🦕 (#61093)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2015-05-18 14:42:15
This is super helpful THANK YOU! :)



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Sulka (#14718)

King
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Posted on
2015-10-31 20:52:55
Hi,

I'm making a spredsheet to easily detect possible outcomes (based on your guides!). You mentioned that Sepia is an "extra rare" color that requires at least one parent to have it in order to breed Sepias. I was wondering, is there a list or a guide somewhere that states the colors' levels of rarity?



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Alma (#7695)

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Posted on
2015-11-01 05:07:45
I don't remember seeing an official announcement of drop rate %'s anywhere, but I'll see what I can find.



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Msasi (#21461)

True King
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Posted on
2015-11-01 06:53:06
Kitty said in chat once that "bases (like Lilac)" have a pass rate of about half that of the regular special pass rate (15%), which would put it at about 7-7.5%.

However, I don't know if Kitty was referring specifically only to Lilac and that others would have slightly different pass rates, or if she meant /all/ "super special" bases have that pass rate.



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Sulka (#14718)

King
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Posted on
2015-11-01 08:40:36
thanks for the replies. I found some documentation from a wiki that stated the rare bases that will only appear when at least 1 parent has that base. I can't be sure if it's 100% true though.

I also released the spreadsheet and credited your tutorial there.



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