Posted by "Neotenous"/"insular dwarfism"

🥀 (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:13:17
There are so many ugly and some very disturbing suggestions here... so I thought of why not a cute pleasing to the eyes "mutation"!
~~~

petite_lionboy_by_bekiss-dcgl92n.png
petite_lionbae2_by_bekiss-dcgozgl.png
petite_lioness_by_bekiss-dcgoqiu.png
petite_lionessby_by_bekiss-dcgp1wc.png
(scroll downer for other mock-up sketches)

*changed name to “neotenous” (used to be called "petite")
other name: "insular dwarfism"



It’s a smaller lion (and cuter)
-Maybe the size of a leopard or cheetah?
lion_cheetah_size_by_bekiss-dcgkxwc.png
-It would be healthy and breed-able. Can be Kinged.
-Inheritable? Can be passed down by both mother and father. ?
-It will be for all age stages. Doesn't need to have different artwork for newborn and young cub, 'cause those are already small (that artwork could be resized smaller, if needed).

The effect it could have in game-play could be:
- That it has less chance when catching big preys (on its one it cannot), but more likely to catch small preys.
- It is harder to breed, more chance to fail breeding, and if bred with Primal there's a 50 chance of cub mortality even with nesting (Primals are huge). *But if this coding is too much trouble then just make them not able to breed with Primals and 25-50% chance of failing breeding for "small" male studs with any non-"small", (females already have a fertility %).
- Shorter gestation periods and sexually mature faster. (took that from wikipedia.) *could be hard to code, so ignore it?
- Stat penalty.

~~~~

mutation_tag2_by_bekiss-dcgl0r7.png

Neoteny: "Some common neotenous physical traits in domesticated animals (mainly dogs, pigs, ferrets, cats, and even foxes) include: floppy ears, changes in reproductive cycle, curly tails, piebald coloration, fewer or shortened vertebra, large eyes, rounded forehead, large ears, and shortened muzzle."(from wikipedia) Neoteny is very common in humans!

This suggestion only refers to mammalian neoteny, and neoteny does not affect every physical traits in all cases:
neoteny = the retention of some juvenile characteristics in adulthood

So in theory, these lions can have normal full manes.

The neotenous lion doesn't need to have shorter gestations and mature sexually faster.

~~~~
Insular dwarfism
the "pygmy elephant" is a good example click and info: click

In looks It's not identical to the "dwarfism" mutation here, because the body is proportionate, limbs will be average or slightly shorter but not really noticeable. (Made edit pics to show that. above.)
This type can be healthy and have a life span similar to their bigger relatives (both the pygmy elephants and asian-african elephants can live up to 70 years, and the pygmy sexually matures faster:10yrs. vs14yrs)


*Got another idea: what if you can get this mutation when breeding with dwarfs?
(edit: Not, 'cause insular dwarfism is completely different from that type of dwarfism that actually deforms the body proportions. and insular dwarfism is evolution/species adapting to an environment.)
petite_lionboy_with_dwarf_by_bekiss-dcgla5l.png

Lioden includes Madagascar? (click) so pygmy lions can be a thing here...?

~~~~

I'm not suggesting amphibian's paedomorphosis (or for this "mutation" to be called Paedomorphosis.) Axolotl are pedomorphic species, but they are not described with the word neoteny (click)

Info! :D (from encyclopedia britannica)
Paedomorphosis: "retention by an organism of juvenile or even larval traits into later life. There are two aspects of paedomorphosis: acceleration of sexual maturation relative to the rest of development (progenesis) and retardation of bodily development with respect to the onset of reproductive activity (neoteny).

Classic examples include certain amphibian species in which development is arrested so that the larval form and aquatic habit persist as the organism attains sexual maturity and becomes capable of reproduction. In some species only a few morphological features are retarded, but the number of features retarded may differ from species to species. Adult humans, for example, display various neotenic body features that other adult primates do not.
In other species all morphological development is retarded; the organism is juvenilized but sexually mature. Such shifts of reproductive capability would appear to have adaptive significance to organisms that exhibit it. In terms of evolutionary theory, the process of paedomorphosis suggests that larval stages and developmental phases of existing organisms may give rise, under certain circumstances, to wholly new organisms."

Source: (click)

~~~~~

It seems, the difference between neoteny and insular dwarfism, (of mammals), is that:
neoteny usually is that juvenile-like traits are being selected for/ passed down) and insular dwarfism happens in isolated groups.

Both seem to be gradual mutations/evolution. both natural and artificial selection pass down the traits of juvenile appearance and smaller size. but in some cases retention of juvenile appearance can be sudden..?

In both, it shouldn't really affect the mane growth, since these animals sexually mature, manes are sexual characteristic, example:
insular dwarfish= pygmy elephants have tusks; and neoteny= human have beards and body-hair (scarce beards/bodyhair is seen in asians, but many do have full long beards).
Mane size and fullness is dependent on its own genes and on hormones mostly.

Lets imagine its a barbary-mane pygmy/neotenous lion? xD

~~~~~

On how to obtains these small lions:
If it's not considered a random mutation maybe this could be the scenarios:
- Your lion bred with a mystery pygmy/neotenous lion and got an offspring. like with the hybrids(Leopons).
- A Rapid evolution like the Primals are (they are rapid-devolution?). Mutie on Demand?
- *You encounter a pygmy/neotenous lioness in explore and claim like the NCLs. Could be during an event only, like the groupies? Or a Raffle lioness. (in this case it will be a special "mutie" only obtained like these?)

*Mutations in these game are not always true mutations, hybrids and ancestrals(evolving back) are called mutations here. Not every "mutation" needs to be super realistic.

~~~~~

fTfwtKs.png
Maybe could be the ofspring of that? 😂 (t'is a joke)

~~~~~~~

Let’s make Lioden Cute! (some balance is needed, its too gory and gruesome)

(It would be awesome it could be bought at some time like a Mutie on Demand item)



This suggestion has 1415 supports and 220 NO supports.



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Edited on 20/07/18 @ 13:01:19 by Zizi 🥀 (#12402)

🥀 (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:14:15
Some Mock-up Sketches. (since some criticized my awesome edits >_<)

Adult Lion~ two mane options.. dunno which one most would prefer, but the fuller one it looks much better with that one!
smol_lion_by_bekiss-dchdvtj.png

Adols~
smol_lionies_by_bekiss-dchdvtc.png



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Edited on 16/07/18 @ 08:44:46 by Zizi 🥀 (#12402)

KJ (#129328)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:17:28



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Edited on 07/07/18 @ 18:09:45 by https://www.yeet.com/ Yeet (#129328)

🥀 (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:18:22
...



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Edited on 16/07/18 @ 13:38:35 by Zizi 🥀 (#12402)

LittleAntler [BLM] (#30151)


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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:18:24
Regular height variation isn't really a mutation. Despite what you argued, it is essentially a spin on dwarfism. Not all variations of dwarfism cause proportional issues - A person who is a dwarf is merely someone who has an adult height of 4ft 10in or shorter. This would just be a lion who, as you described, is considerably smaller than your average adult lion (at the very least, small enough to necessitate an art change). I'm sorry, but no support.



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🥀 (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:20:37
dwarfs and petites are completely different. I am not a dwarf lol I've met one, she had very short arms and legs.



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🅱️oneless (#123346)


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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:22:12
"ED mutation" would be highly insensitive and insulting toward those who have suffered/are suffering EDs... @Yeet



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🥀 (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:23:09
I play Lioden mostly for the artwork, like the grand mayority do here. So the more variation in lion's artwork the better! I'm simply calling it a mutation because how else could we have smaller lions.



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LittleAntler [BLM] (#30151)


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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:23:45
You met a dwarf with one of over 200 variants of dwarfism. The only categorizing definition of a dwarf is an adult who is under 4ft and 10in. If you are under 4'10", you are categorically a dwarf. An instance where a dwarf suffers from proportional issues is due to bone mutations that stunt the growth of the arms and legs. Many do not suffer from this, though.



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🥀 (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:29:36
Well the more "dwarf" variation the better. But dwarfism is kinda a random mutation and not a height issue. average height people can have a dwarf child, while shorties are short because of their parents height, its not a surprise mutation.



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Severinus [Dorsal
Scoundrel] (#59230)

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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:33:16
Being short is not a mutation. It's simply being short. No support, sorry. The amount of extra art load this would put on site creators isn't worth it when there is a lot of work for them to catch up on and introduce already.



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🥀 (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:37:46
Lot of stuff here aren't real mutation so... Primal and hybrids aren't mutations. and that has created a lot of extra art load so...

I don't care if this takes years to be implemented, they can take all the time needed. You just don't like having cute small lions and probably want some other mutations instead of this decent suggestion.



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Severinus [Dorsal
Scoundrel] (#59230)

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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:38:51
If you're making a suggestion, you're opening yourself up to criticism and people who disagree with you. Don't make it personal.



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Edited on 07/07/18 @ 17:41:12 by Sev [4.1k Primal Kimanjano] (#59230)

Anonymous (#44152)

Demonic
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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:45:30
No support for reasons already stated.



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🥀 (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:48:38
I'm simply defending it :3

Talking in general I see that most would say "its not mutation, its a art load and waste of time", but I know they just saying that because of simple dislike. But when they make suggestions they don't care its an art load.

Tigons are a huge art load not a real mutation, but they still being made, slowly since its not a priority but someday will be available. it was planned like 3 years ago



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Severinus [Dorsal
Scoundrel] (#59230)

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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:50:19
Tigons are the offspring of a male tiger and a female lioness and very real.

And yep, you got me, I just have a vendetta against all cute things, sure.



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Edited on 07/07/18 @ 17:55:46 by Sev [4.1k Primal Kimanjano] (#59230)







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