Posted by Of Events and Goldens

Berenos|On hiatus (#84593)

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Posted on
2018-11-05 05:13:12
This thread began as a way to bring attention to the fact that the Golden color group is being neglected in favor of other, more prominent color groups, both because it gets fewer additions and because those additions are nothing like what you’d usually expect from the Golden color group – for example, Green, Labradorite, and the latest addition, Ember.

To start with hard facts: It has been almost a year since I first posted this, and here are all the new bases we got since December 2018:
  • Black Group: Aufeis, Elysian, Rhino, Glass, Velvet, Murk, Leonids, Demiurge, Augur, Noctis, Spectre, Frotbitten, Snowflake

  • Cream Group: Alabaster, Heavenly, Ammonite, Moss Agate, Guardian

  • Golden Group: Maziwa, Ornament, Ember, Angelic, Festive, Hyena, Nudar, Sunspot, Sahara, Victor

  • Red Group: Rough Ruby, Wine, Sha, Rose Gold, Scoundrel, Merlot, Hibiscus, Rhubarb


Final count of bases added from December 2018 - May 2020: 13 Black bases, 5 Cream bases, 10 Golden bases, 8 Red bases.

And the final count of all the bases currently in game? A total of 67 Black bases, 53 Cream bases, 58 Golden bases and 59 Red bases.



If you want a more updated version of this long explanation below, take a peek at the latest lament of a golden breeder here.

To me it feels highly unfair that there is this blatant neglection going on because either a) apparently Golden bases are hard to make, or b) players that prefer other color groups don’t like it and that’s why we get such “interesting” additions to spark interest. And of course, we don’t see Golden intruding in other color groups, to spark “interest” in those in exchange – not that I’d want that to happen, but it’s the principle of the thing.

I like Goldens. Well, I like the concept of Goldens as they were. Nacarat, Goldenrod, Doubloon, Sulphur, Sunshine, and Champagne, to name a few. So, what if other players find them bland or boring? You won’t see me complaining seriously about other groups’ additions because I think they are an eyesore, if they are liked by others, that’s absolutely fine. But we’ve been waiting years for nice Golden bases and, when we finally do, we keep getting these weird things that more often than not are hard to breed or come from a really hard to make applicator, on top of that.

Dhahabi was supposed to be our November’s applicator back in November 2017, to pair up with Penumbra and Fossil, as you can see here, but then, after a long anticipated wait, exclusive bases became a thing and we were left with no applicators for Golden bases except the regular custom ones until May 2018, with Trophy. This has happened again and again, with Labradorite being added on July 2018 to Goldens for some unfathomable reason – though I’d be hard pressed to pick a proper color group for its final design, to be honest –, Xanthic, ect.

Another thing that keeps happening is that all the applicable bases seem to be going to the Solid gradient. Up until Anubis and Bast, there wasn’t a single Golden Countershaded Special base one could apply, and when they were first introduced you could only get one of those per account, as a reward for completing the new June 2018’s storyline – and, in fact, keep being the only ones, as there are no Uncommon ones.

In the original post, I mentioned that, while there seemed to be events dedicated to other color groups, there wasn’t a single one dedicated to Golden: February with its Red bases, March starting with Cream and then getting one (1) Golden base (Chatoyant), May with the long road towards crafting the Trophy applicator and this year’s addition of Ornament, then June started with two (2) Golden bases and one (1) Red that could be used to breed for the Golden combo base Gilded, but 2019 got one (1) more Black with Velvet, one (1) more Red with Sha and one (1) Cream with Alabaster, and make up the factors to trigger the Rose Gold combo base, which is Red. July features mostly Blacks, with 9 Black bases against Sunset and Sunrise, which belong to the Red color group, Labradorite which was, sadly, added as a Golden, and then the Cream Heavenly -, August started with the stud exclusive Ruffian Cream base, and the hard to get Solaris Cream applicator, but also got the Scoundrel stud base this year, September has so far the Red applicable base Locust and the newest Black base, Augur, October has featured Red bases since the big Genetics overhaul, November started featuring only Creams and then got the addition of Black with Penumbra and Nuumite, and last we have December with – you guessed it – more Black bases. And what does Golden have? Hybrid bases and explore exclusive. Nice if you want a challenge, not so nice if you want to go on with your breeding projects customizing existing cubs.

To summarize that big block of information above, Black seems to be everywhere followed by Red, and then Cream and Golden are left forgotten in a corner to be recalled sporadically and, in the case of Golden, with the weirdest and/or hardest to get bases.

I understand people voted in the polls for Blacks to get additions first back in the day because there are a lot more breeders focused on the group as a whole or liked the bases better, but that doesn’t mean Golden isn’t loved by players and that it doesn’t deserve some attention for a change. There are some suggestions in the base and mane base forums that would look right at home with the more “classical” Goldens, and if everything else fails there is always the option to make other existing bases’ recolors, too.



This suggestion has 338 supports and 16 NO supports.



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Edited on 05/05/20 @ 07:36:40 by Berenos (#84593)

Sasa [🐅] (#30698)

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Posted on
2018-11-05 06:02:07
I would use the new tigon base but the golden bases lack excitement. rip.



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Berenos|On hiatus (#84593)

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Posted on
2018-11-05 06:05:54
Is this why we keep getting strange "Golden" bases? To make happy people who don't breed Goldens?



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❄️ Icey ❄️ (#44765)

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Posted on
2018-11-05 06:16:10
Yea Sasa I'm gonna have to disagree. Like, maybe not with the "boring" part as that's a subjetive opinion-- but every group as a more "natural-ish" special. As in a not so wild one. Golden however, just gets all the wild bases and it's just a shame? Like. People who want an -applicable- natural gold base are usually natural breeders, a branch of LD that's usually considered "boring".

The bases always try to appeal to a certain side of the site, but natural breeders always get the short end of the stick. Most "natural" bases such as ethereal or fossil or supernal dont have marking apps for them-- which puts natural breeders who dont want a lion with just custom marks in a tough spot, as they have to keep getting 300 MT to apply breed only natural marks such as kiman or sepia. And they dont even have a natural base app.

So idk. I do kinda wish there was one less wild golden base app. It's not my personal goal, but it'd be nice to have this little corner of LD be acknowledged c:



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Edited on 05/11/18 @ 06:17:23 by ❄️ Icey ❄️ (#44765)

Berenos|On hiatus (#84593)

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Posted on
2018-11-05 06:26:25
What Icey replied is what I'm trying to get at. The other color groups began with something more along the lines of what's expected of them, and later branched out in a psychodelic spree. Golden is missing the middle step where we get those natural/classical-looking applicable bases.



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mintea #DHS (#148843)

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Posted on
2018-11-05 06:27:26
HMmm....I definitely agree that there is a shortage of applicable golden bases now that I think of it...I think part of it may be that players generally find the typical golden base to be generic/plain or associate them with ncl/rolled king genetics. But as you have mentioned, the golden category could be "stretched" somewhat -- I am thinking of maybe an orange tinted base or even like different gradients/types of brown mixed with other colors --- as that's happening with the other colour groups. Ultimately I don't think there's currently enough interest in the general lioden playing population for golden bases to receive much more attention unfortunately :3



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Berenos|On hiatus (#84593)

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Posted on
2018-11-05 06:46:50
The same could be said for the Cream group @mintea, and that didn't stop it from getting them



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mintea #DHS (#148843)

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Posted on
2018-11-05 06:48:59
>.< true, but I sort of feel like right now:
1. light/pastel bases --> cream
2. Reds/Oranges/Brownish reds/pink -- > Red
3. Black, dark, purple, blue --> Black

It doesn't really leave golden applicators with much leeway besides more natural looks :3



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Berenos|On hiatus (#84593)

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Posted on
2018-11-05 06:58:56
I have to disagree there, a base being pastel doesn't imply it belongs in creams. Look at Sapela, or Cremello for example. Then there is Cherry Blossom, which a pink base and Cream. And plenty of brown bases belong in the Black group - ironically Black, Dikela, Cocoa, Rosy Brown, ect. The color groups were first divided in the four pigmentations hair can display, and then the crazier options were added later, if I'm not mistaken. If we take that into account, here are some examples of human blonde hair colors:

046c67718fc4bcd73874e38fb46a03ea.jpg

Even if they are, as I said, human hair colors, there's nothing to impede them from being the color or colors to make up a base. You say Goldens don't have much leeway besides more natural bases, and yet those natural looks don't seem to be coming any time soon.



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ShakiraFuego (#41825)


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Posted on
2018-11-05 07:01:33
I absolutely agree. All of the applicator bases for the Golden group aren't natural goldens with a nice gradient, they are all a melange of different colors. While some may look nice, they aren't going to help a natural breeder aside from base genetics, and you have to essentially cover the base entirely with markings. Every custom applicable base is common except for Topaz. Combo bases? Good luck. If I want something nice like Fulvous, Goldenrod, or Udara I can't apply them, I have to hope the breed-only gods are in my favor. And then there is Mandarin and Kimanjano... yeah...



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Rolled 3/27 (#121082)


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Posted on
2018-11-05 07:05:16
Personally, I don't like any of the gold bases.
So I could care less if there's any base applicators or not for the gold base group.
I am aware that some people like them though.

I don't think there's enough love for the gold base group to warrant a new base applicator for them that's considered realistic.



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Edited on 05/11/18 @ 07:05:38 by Glimmer (FULL Celestial) (#121082)

Berenos|On hiatus (#84593)

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Posted on
2018-11-05 07:12:40
For the record, you are forgetting Sunshine and Xanthic in there, @ShakiraFuego, but yep

@Glimmer And that, right there, is what I want to check. Is it really true that "nobody" cares about Goldens, or is it that we are not as vocal as other base groups' breeders?



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Rolled 3/27 (#121082)


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Posted on
2018-11-05 07:15:41
I can't speak for the people that like Golds, but as a Red/Black breeder myself, a lot of the people I know only breed reds and blacks like myself.
There's very few people that I know that breed in golds and I believe it's mostly people that are clean breeders. (No I'm not insisting there's a correlation between clean breeders and gold bases)

I'm sure there are some gold breeders out there; but I hardly know of any.



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Bezthiel 🍉 (#81210)

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Posted on
2018-11-05 07:19:28
That's a circular problem right there. "There isn't enough love to warrant a cool, new base" means "no one will ever like this group, because there's no cool, new base."

I love gold and it's problematic that there are no truly nice, natural bases. For the moment I've used Anubis, but if my kings markings hadn't obliterated the weirder gradients on it, I wouldn't have. It's more... uh... "dog" than tawny lion.

Plus, out of 8 applicable bases, the only ones in my favorite group are fucking Green and Labradorite. Not. Golden.



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Berenos|On hiatus (#84593)

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Posted on
2018-11-05 07:26:47
I mean, seeing how the other color groups are so "ahead", it wouldn't hurt anyone if Golden got one or two applicable bases that look Golden, as oposed to whatever colorful alternative we get because apparently nobody likes actual Golden bases. Does it matter if the people who like them seem to be natural and/or breeders? Those are all layers, but in the end we're all people.

I like Golden bases. There have to be more Golden lovers out there somewhere, and more will players will join that could like them, too. Is it so wrong, to want something others have already?



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Rolled 3/27 (#121082)


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Posted on
2018-11-05 08:00:02
Of course it wouldn't hurt anyone.

But if nobody's going to stud to kings OR buy cubs with a new base like this, there's 0 point in it.
0 market for it and the base is just pointless.
Even if it's pretty.



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