Posted by [May] Bring back Loser trophies!

Frostmeadow (#43494)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2020-05-08 14:02:38
Listen.
Lend your ear to my pleas.
As some of you may know, I am a HUGE LOOOOOSEEER.
I gotta LOSER Palooza goin on here.
LION who is a LOSER
I lose a lot. And I'm bummed because in the tournaments, lioden removed the trophies for losing in the further rounds, stating that the loser consolation prize was the previous winner prize.
But that's not consolation or a loser prize, that's a prize set aside for winning, and it is completely separate from the loser prize. Consider each round as a separate thing.
My lion feels so bad. He loses constantly. He sucks! All his friends boo and laugh at him and he's tired of it. Either way the mockery won't end but he could at least be consoled with a, "I'm really proud you tried, honey," loser prize.
Please bring it back. It would make the bitter taste of defeat a little more bearable.
Thank you.



This suggestion has 161 supports and 2 NO supports.



Edited on 07/08/20 @ 16:14:18 by a Moderator

Ticklicous (#490)

Impeccable
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Posted on
2020-05-08 15:50:44
Support. Frankly its pretty obvious that the tournament brackets sway in favor of the lions with the clearly higher stats. And for people like myself with lions closer to the lower end of their brackets in terms of stats, it is just such a struggle and makes it insanely hard to make both event currency and get trophies.


Frostmeadow (#43494)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2020-05-08 18:53:41
Thank you! That's true!


[🦅]winter soldier
[🌻] (#134705)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2020-05-08 18:55:15
Oh, I didn’t realize we didn’t get any. I thought there was one. Hmm. Supporting, definitely


Frostmeadow (#43494)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2020-05-08 18:56:43
there's the beginning loser trophy but not for if you win once/twice and lose.


Claudandus (#198312)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2020-05-10 21:06:28
I definitely support this. Being at the bottom of a power bracket is not fun, and it would be nice to get something from it.


Frostmeadow (#43494)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2020-05-10 21:07:26
Thank you buddy!



Moon-Soul Pastel G3
Corrupted (#205430)

Prince of Terror
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Posted on
2020-05-12 00:44:46
This also meshes with the issues of low loser trophy drop rates.


🍁 niknak - Mosaic
Aufeis (#2776)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2020-05-13 09:44:08
I'm obviously an unpopular opinion here, but there's a reason the the "luck" factor was implemented. As stated in the wiki, "The higher your stats, the better your chances are of winning against the other lions you're up against; however, keep in mind that there is a luck factor. This luck factor is intended to assist kings that are towards the lower end of a stat tier, so that they have a chance to win in one of the tournaments, rather than losing against everyone else."

This is a stat based month, which I think is fine. My main king is above 1000 stats and he still loses so so much, same with my side king who is above 800 stats. Frequently both my accounts lose in the second round which means I only get one consolation prize. The lack of a second consolation prize makes it feel like there are real stakes in this fake online lion battle tournament Instead of the "Aww you tried a second time! Here's your sad loser prize." I wouldn't prefer it, and personally I think if you lose you lose

Frankly I don't think there are any issues with "low loser trophy drop rates" as Moon says. The loser trophies are craftable, and therefore should have fairly low drop rates to make those items more difficult to get. It's meant to be hard, it's meant to be difficult, and making it any easier will just plummet the value of craftable bases this month because it's too damn easy.


Frostmeadow (#43494)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2020-05-13 10:33:05
Good point, but I am whiny baby and don't like losing.


Moon-Soul Pastel G3
Corrupted (#205430)

Prince of Terror
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Posted on
2020-05-13 15:05:40
Niknak makes a good point, however, I feel it's maybe the recipe itself that needs to be reworked, rather than setting a limiting factor to provide a challenge and then inflating the price of a few specific items(seriously, check TC for tail tuft hair).

Trophy base:
/ 20 Tail Tuft Hair
/ 20 Shiny Stones
/ 5 Lion's Tooth
/ 5 Lion's Claw
/ 5 Lion Skull
Victor:
/ 5 Lion's Claw
/ 5 Lion's Tooth
/ 15 Lion Skull
/ 3 Porcupine Quills
/ 2 Kudu Horn

Here's the problem. Let's assume, you have a 50/50 chance of winning a round(if we average all the kings, of course this depends on individual stats but half the players win, half lose). If you win, you have another 50/50 chance at a winner trophy(total of 1/4, since you have to win both rounds). If you win the second round, you are guaranteed a trophy(I think). If you win that, you have another 50/50 chance at a winning trophy. Expected value of a winner trophy is: 0.125*2+0.25*1=0.5. If you enter a tournament, your account expects to get one winner trophy every two tournaments assuming your stats are right in the middle. Ignoring egg yolks, 1/6 of these are useful for Trophy, and 1/2 are useful for Victor. So you would expect a 1/12 chance of getting something for Trophy and 1/4 for Victor.
But wait. If you have high or low karma, you will pick up lion skulls in explore, and even if you don't, they will come up in elephant poop. I have a faint memory of getting kudu horns in explore(there's one if you have high karma with the dama gazelle), but can someone verify that?
For loser trophies, you have a 50/50 chance of losing the first round, and looking at the tournament results, there seems to be a less-than 50/50 chance of getting a loser trophy over a manticora beetle or two. So you have a less than 0.25 chance of getting a loser trophy, and 4/9 of them are useful for Trophy, and 2/9 are useful for Victor. That's 1/9 for Trophy and 1/36 for Victor.

It might look like I just contradicted myself, proving that for Trophy at least, useful losing trophies are easier to get than winning. However, 4 out of the 5 are losing trophies, and you need 20 tail tufts and shiny stones. The stones aren't as big of an issue since they can be found in explore, and I have a lot of lion skulls from explore. In the trading center, tail tuft hairs are going for 1 GB each. Lion skulls are going for 400-500 SB.

Another way to put it is if you play 100 arena tournaments with your stats exactly in the middle, for Trophy base, you'd get around 8 of each useful winning trophy and 11 of each useful losing trophy. You can get around this by making sure you're on the bottom of a tier, but that means a different player gets more winning trophies and fewer losing trophies.

I think what would be useful would be making the recipe 10 of each. Another way is requiring fewer of each losing trophy and more types of losing trophies(i.e., 3 each of all seven nonfood loser trophies). Another solution I can think of is keeping the current recipe, but making losing guarantee a loser trophy rather than giving MB(although this might make kings at the bottom of a tier not be able to buy from the Champion Shop). Another way is, as OP mentioned, to give loser trophies after the first round.

I think a lot of the arguments provided by both sides from the April lamb encounter apply here. Yes, we need a challenge. Yes, it's optional. But personally I think challenges should be hard enough to be fun, but not hard enough to be frustrating.

Anyway, I started rambling and this wasn't as helpful as I wanted it to be, but maybe someone could build off of this or point out if I made mistakes or incorrect assumptions.

Edit: original wording of a phrase was "but that means a different player gets more winning trophies and more losing trophies." Not what I was trying to say.



Edited on 13/05/20 @ 18:07:52 by Moon (#205430)

Frostmeadow (#43494)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2020-05-13 18:05:09
I am impressed! You did the math! you're coming from a logical Point of View but I am just a little bit whiny so I am glad there's basis behind this post! Thank you for taking the time!