Posted by Hyperdontia

Tharkenta [Clean G1] (#160101)


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Posted on
2020-05-31 14:59:42


Some information before we start: I know some people are sensitive about real photos of mutations, I wrote a small description (in brackets) ahead of every spoiler that contains pictures so you know what to expect.

What is Hyperdontia?




Hyperdontia is basically the opposite of the toothless mutation (which is Anodontia) we already have - too many teeth.

It usually happens when in a very young age more than average tooth germs are developing. The exact cause is unknown, but it can appear with different conditions like:

• Gardner’s syndrome
• Cleft palate and lip
• Cleidocranial dysplasia
• and more, but this is about teeth, not other genetic disorders and syndromes

However, mostly they are just 'surprise' teeth, where the patient has none of the listed conditions above or the tooth germ got irritated in a very young age (from a punch in the face as example) and split in 2.

As far as I know it can appear in domestic cats, dogs and humans. I've treated a human patient with 5 wisdom teeth myself.

In humans, there has been reported a case where over 200 teeth like structures have been surgically removed from the jaw, but these are extremely rare cases. If someone has hyperdontia, it's mostly one or a few more teeth.

The teeth are usually removed or in rare cases they can be treated orthodontical, but this is a game about wild lions and not humans.


Lethal, AMP or visible from birth?

The toothless mutation is visible from birth, so the lions have neither baby teeth or permanent teeth.

The eruption of the permanent teeth of a lion is usually completed by two years of age, thus I would suggest this as an Adult Mutation, where the baby lion has the normal dentition as any other young lion but as they loose their baby teeth and reach 2 years, the adult mutation is revealed as Hyperdontia.

Depending the amount of the surplus teeth, the lion might not be able to 'clean' their teeth via chewing on meat. This can cause calculus/tartar on the teeth and an inflamation of the periodontium, where bacteria can entering the bloodstream which can lead to death if untreated.

But if this mutation becomes a lethal on lioden, it's unrealistic that toothless lions can live a long and happy life.


Art change?

No art change would be needed for the default female and male lion art, but for the posed females there would be an art change needed for the evil and snarky pose.

Toothless lions aren't posable because of this. But since the art change would only affect the lineart and not any markings, I think it wouldn't be too much to desire a posable Hyperdontia mutation (and maybe a posable toothless mutation too )

In the Spoiler below are mockups I've made for the evil and Snarky pose. The image in the lower right side shows the normal dentition our lions have.

(Lioden graphics. They are far less gorey than some other pictures in this suggestion and look rather harmless)





Gameplay change?

Toothless lions can't hunt/patrol/get kinged for obvious reasons.
Some people may think now: more teeth = more dangerous = more damage/strengh.
But usually the jaw only has enough size to hold the normal amount of teeth. If a lion has multiple teeth it's most likely they grow in a direction they're not supposed to be and the lion would struggle to use them the right way.
In very bad cases they even might die, because of reasons listed above in 'Lethal, AMP or visible from birth?'

If there should be any gameplay change at all, it should be a disadvantage for this mutation.
Depending on how many multiple teeth are present, there should be either no gameplay change at all, a stat debuff or the lion brings less food from hunting home/gets less stats or items from patrolling. Maybe the mood lowers when feeding the lion, because they are just frustrated that they can't eat like their other pridemembers?
However, this mutations should be able get kinged.

Personally I tend to no gameplay change at all.


Hyperdontia in cats


There are many pictures of supposed hyperdontia out there in the internet, but many of them are photoshopped or just show permanent teeth with baby teeth who just haven't fallen out yet.
As an example of false hyperdontia (a persistent tooth) a picture of my cat, while he was loosing his baby teeth

(closeup of the of a cats mouth, showing a baby tooth and an errupting permanent tooth)



Real Hyperdontia looks very similar and can appear in both, baby teeth and permanent teeth. But a baby tooth, that is still visible when the permanent teeth are errupting is not hyperdontia.

I was able to find a few cases, where domestic cats had hyperdontia, the first cat had a symmetrical occurance of the third premolar tooth. According to the website, the patient was also grinding their teeth, which might be a sign of dental/oral pain.

Photographs in the spoiler are from said cat
(closeups of the inside of a cats mouth, no blood)



Below are some more pictures of other cats who have hyperdontia

(closeups of the inside of a cats mouth with saliva. You can see a little bit blood if you squint your eyes)



So far I've only been able to find cases where the cat had too much premolars, but if this can happen to a cats premolars, it can happen to any other kind of tooth too.



In the spoiler I've embedded some pictures of extreme hyperdontia cases of humans and a dog.
(Closeups and x-rays of the inside of a dogs and humans mouth. Careful, these images may trigger trypophobia for some people! No blood,but lots of teeth!)





This suggestion has 365 supports and 27 NO supports.



Edited on 05/06/20 @ 12:29:00 by Tharkenta [Clean G3 Tigon] (#160101)

🎨Ferwren🌲 (#185979)

Phoenix
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Posted on
2020-05-31 15:17:06
OOoo Cheshire cat lions yes


🦜Jen-gle
Bells🦜G1|3k (#175593)

Wanderer
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Posted on
2020-06-01 10:21:40
Its a neat idea but a no from me. I can't really deal with teeth type gore and it seems like something I'd struggle with if added :/
If you can get some concept art for the mut that isnt to graphic I could possibly support, but rn it seems like something I'd have to avoid as is


Nakaru The Splenda
Daddy (#54817)

Cursed
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Posted on
2020-06-01 10:25:25
I support, but maybe it'd be lethal? Depending on how many extra teeth were present, I don't think the lion would be able to eat properly and eventually die of starvation/malnutrition.
Either way, this is an interesting mutation idea. I have extra teeth, and they make my smile kind of crooked and a bit off putting (I think), and it'd be cool to see it represented in this game. <3 Maybe for neutral pose the lioness would snarl a bit or something to show off the extra teeth?


Tharkenta [Clean G1] (#160101)


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Posted on
2020-06-01 11:18:45
@ Jenday
The images I've posted are indeed a little bit gorey, since they are real life photos. A real baby with Harlequin Ichtyosis looks like a nightmare to me, but the lioden version is kinda cartoonized and doesn't look as horrible as it is in real like.
I've made 2 mockups for the evil and snarky pose of what I have in my mind for this mutation. Since the images for the lioden lions are quite small, I think it would also take a little bit of the gore aspect :)

@ Nakaru The Splenda Daddy
In real nature it might be lethal to some lions, depending how many teeth are present. But if this mutation becomes a lethal on lioden, it's weird that toothless lions can live a long and happy life.
In real life these lions would probably starve at some piont, since they wouldn't be able to hunt or chew on a carcass.
I also think there should only be changes made for the evil and snarky pose if this becomes a posable mutation.


Romeo The Black Rose (#111045)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2020-06-01 23:18:37
I think this is a great idea! Would the (normal) cub pose be affected too? And maybe newborn? Since those mouths are open too :0!


Tharkenta [Clean G1] (#160101)


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Posted on
2020-06-02 07:19:24
Hyperdontia can occur in baby teeth and permanent teeth, so I could be possible.
But actually having it in both klinds of teeth is insanely rare. It's also more common to have Hyperdontia in the permanent teeth than the baby teeth, so I think the lineart for the cubs shouldn't be changed.


Vitani [3.3k Smilus] (#57775)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2020-06-02 14:03:30
I deeply regret opening the first spoiler - I wasn't expecting to be triggered by that lmao, but I LOVE the look on lions! Def. support! <3


Tharkenta [Clean G1] (#160101)


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Posted on
2020-06-02 14:13:42
Oh god, I'm sorry you got triggered by the photos! D:
But thanks for your support! I hope the mockups look way less gorey than the real photos


Vitani [3.3k Smilus] (#57775)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2020-06-02 14:27:53
Lol, it's okay! I'll survive. x3 YOUR mock-ups look fantastic! :D I'm more concerned about what the staff would do to it if they accepted. xD Hopefully not make it another Harlequin Ichtyosis type thing.
I could still definitely see it being a lethal mutation though, just a longer lived one. Most of the ones that live 3-5months do have messages like "due to trouble eating" but you also made a good point about the toothless mutation not being lethal, so it would definitely be interesting to see their choice in that regard.


Tharkenta [Clean G1] (#160101)


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Posted on
2020-06-03 00:24:24
Thanks!
Yeah this mutation could be handeled like the deaf mutation!
Depending the amount of the surplus teeth, the lion might not be able to 'clean' their teeth via chewing on meat. This can cause inflamation of the periodontium and bacteria entering the bloodstream which can lead to death if untreated.
However, I think this would take the ability to king this mutation


Tharkenta [Clean G1] (#160101)


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Posted on
2020-06-05 12:20:56
Edit: I was able to find a few cases where cats had hyperdontia!
I updated the thread and wrote a little bit more information about hyperdontia!


the serval spots
💛🌼 (#98320)

Blessed
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Posted on
2020-06-05 12:32:30
Teeth are almost a phobia of mine so the pics TERRIFIED me LMAO but I think it's a really cool idea so support!


Tharkenta [Clean G1] (#160101)


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Posted on
2020-06-05 12:33:46
Oh I'm so sorry D:
But thanks for the support!


MinYoongi|g3 2x
rosette ferus (#191587)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2020-06-06 01:52:52
This would be a cool yet creepy mutation! you have my support!


🌈Mariposa [Side] (#77944)


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Posted on
2020-06-07 05:17:27
Jesus, this is horrifying... Supporting!