Posted by Premature Birth

ColdFang (#185778)

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Posted on
2021-01-19 15:59:33
I was looking through some mutation ideas, but I didn’t see a premature one, so as you would guess it would be lethal, sometimes the cubs could survive, but a very low chance at this happening.
Ok so I’m about to put way too much into this (sorry game developers)
If you breed to a lioness, the premature birth would start when you have 2 days left. It won’t matter if the lioness is nested or not. So day 2 is going to have a lower chance at survival, and will more than likely die by next rollover. They will also be prone to more issues, especially more visible ones.

General visible symptoms-
Smaller size, normally having a disproportionately large head
Sharping looking, less rounded features, due to the lack of fat stores
Fine hair covering much of the body
Low body temperature, especially right after birth, caused by lack of stored body fat
Labored breathing or respiratory distress
Lack of reflexes for suckling and swallowing

Short term symptoms-

Breathing issues. Occurs due to the lack of surfactant (substance that allows the lungs to expand)

Heart issues. The most common heart problems premature babies experience are patent ductus arteriosus (PDA) and low blood pressure (hypotension). PDA is a persistent opening between the aorta and pulmonary artery. While this heart defect often closes on its own, left untreated it can lead to a heart murmur, heart failure as well as other complications.

Brain problems. The earlier a baby is born, the greater the risk of bleeding in the brain, known as an intraventricular hemorrhage. Most hemorrhages are mild and resolve with little short-term impact. But some babies may have larger brain bleeding that causes permanent brain injury.
Temperature control problems. Premature babies can lose body heat rapidly. They don't have the stored body fat of a full-term infant, and they can't generate enough heat to counteract what's lost through the surface of their bodies. If body temperature dips too low, an abnormally low core body temperature (hypothermia) can result.

Hypothermia in a premature baby can lead to breathing problems and low blood sugar levels. In addition, a premature infant may use up all of the energy gained from feedings just to stay warm. That's why smaller premature infants require additional heat from a warmer or an incubator until they're larger and able to maintain body temperature without assistance.

Gastrointestinal problems. Premature infants are more likely to have immature gastrointestinal systems, resulting in complications such as necrotizing enterocolitis (NEC). This potentially serious condition, in which the cells lining the bowel wall are injured, can occur in premature babies after they start feeding. Premature babies who receive only breast milk have a much lower risk of developing NEC.
Blood problems. Premature babies are at risk of blood problems such as anemia and newborn jaundice. Anemia is a common condition in which the body doesn't have enough red blood cells. While all newborns experience a slow drop in red blood cell count during the first months of life, the decrease may be greater in premature babies.

Newborn jaundice is a yellow discoloration in a baby's skin and eyes that occurs because the baby's blood contains excess bilirubin, a yellow-colored substance, from the liver or red blood cells. While there are many causes of jaundice, it is more common in preterm babies.

Metabolism problems. Premature babies often have problems with their metabolism. Some premature babies may develop an abnormally low level of blood sugar (hypoglycemia). This can happen because premature infants typically have smaller stores of stored glucose than do full-term babies. Premature babies also have more difficulty converting their stored glucose into more-usable, active forms of glucose.
Immune system problems. An underdeveloped immune system, common in premature babies, can lead to a higher risk of infection. Infection in a premature baby can quickly spread to the bloodstream, causing sepsis, an infection that spreads to the bloodstream.

Long term issues-

Cerebral palsy. Cerebral palsy is a disorder of movement, muscle tone or posture that can be caused by infection, inadequate blood flow or injury to a newborn's developing brain either early during pregnancy or while the baby is still young and immature.

Impaired learning. Premature babies are more likely to lag behind their full-term counterparts on various developmental milestones. Upon school age, a child who was born prematurely might be more likely to have learning disabilities.
Vision problems. Premature infants may develop retinopathy of prematurity, a disease that occurs when blood vessels swell and overgrow in the light-sensitive layer of nerves at the back of the eye (retina). Sometimes the abnormal retinal vessels gradually scar the retina, pulling it out of position. When the retina is pulled away from the back of the eye, it's called retinal detachment, a condition that, if undetected, can impair vision and cause blindness.

Hearing problems. Premature babies are at increased risk of some degree of hearing loss. All babies will have their hearing checked before going home.
Dental problems. Premature infants who have been critically ill are at increased risk of developing dental problems, such as delayed tooth eruption, tooth discoloration and improperly aligned teeth.

Behavioral and psychological problems. Children who experienced premature birth may be more likely than full-term infants to have certain behavioral or psychological problems, as well as developmental delays.

Chronic health issues. Premature babies are more likely to have chronic health issues — some of which may require hospital care — than are full-term infants. Infections, asthma and feeding problems are more likely to develop or persist. Premature infants are also at increased risk of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS).

Possible messages-
Rollover 1
“Cub died last night due to breathing complications, it’s mom stayed with it all night until cub passed...”
“Cub froze to death last night, it’s mother tried best to keep cub warm, but it was no help...”
“Cub seems to be moving around with great difficulty due to its large head and small limbs”
“Cub seemed to have trouble suckling, maybe cub will get the hang of it soon”
Rollover 2
“Cub became stuck, the way it was laying caused more breathing issues than it already had, it couldn’t move, so it slowly suffocated and a lioness found it the next morning”
“Cub ended up choking on its mother’s milk, she tried to help it, but it ended up dying due to reflex issues”
Rollover 3
“Cub wasn’t moving much today, it also stopped trying to crawl to its mother to get milk, it was quite sad to witness the cub practically giving up”
Rollover 4
“Cub died last night due to the cold as well as starvation, it led its body to become weaker than it was, cub passed quietly next to its mother”

Cubs that are born premature on the last day of nesting, a day before birth, will have a higher chance at surviving. But what if they do survive? You might ask, well there will be some issues with preforming day to day activities. So lionesses will be able to hunt, but they will have a very low success rate due to breathing issues, being weaker, and being frail. Same would go for males. Males cannot be kinged as well. Females I feel should either be infertile, not be able to breed, or can only be bred half as much as a normal lioness.

As for art, I’d love to hear some ideas from you guys about possible game art!

Here’s where I got the info from :D
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/premature-birth/symptoms-causes/syc-20376730



This suggestion has 30 supports and 51 NO supports.



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Fraekinn [Private
Stud] (#57572)


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Posted on
2021-01-19 16:02:15
I'm not going to lie, I think this would hit too close to home for some players. Not everyone who plays is a teenager, and quite a few people may have lost kids due to them being preemies. For that reason, no support - its incredibly insensitive, like suggesting we add a respiratory-affecting mutation in the middle of a pandemic where people are dying of respiratory distress.

I cannot in good conscience support this.



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ColdFang (#185778)

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Posted on
2021-01-19 16:05:41
Very understandable
But adding to why something might be insensitive, like having a miscarriage caused by crb, that might also affect some players, but I feel that it is a real thing that happens in life.
Again very sorry to those who might have had a premature baby
This was not meant to be rude or discard any persons who might have experienced any of these issues.



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Fraekinn [Private
Stud] (#57572)


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Posted on
2021-01-19 16:07:37
A miscarriaged caused by CRB would be an abortion, and is done by *choice* - it cannot be called a miscarriage if its intentional.




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ColdFang (#185778)

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Posted on
2021-01-19 16:11:54
Ok, but me personally has experienced an abortion, but I feel that these are things that can happen naturally in nature. Again I don’t want to disregard or disrespect anything that has happened to anyone.
But I totally understand what you are trying to say, and I appreciate the feedback



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Rolled 3/27 (#121082)


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Posted on
2021-01-19 16:52:09
Absolutely not.
No support, this is too sensitive.



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🐝 Ginger_Bee 🐝 (#167127)

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Posted on
2021-01-19 16:54:39
Hm, support from me. I was a premature baby (I weighed 3 pounds and my intestines were growing outside of my stomach! Crazy stuff) and seeing as there's already a multitude of mutations on the site that humans can be born with too (conjoined twins, cleft palate etc) I don't see why this shouldn't be one too. Although I DO agree it will have to be handled with the utmost sensitivity, given the subject matter and such.



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Jayden (Clean
Scoundrel) (#141141)

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Posted on
2021-01-19 16:58:07
i rolled to no support this
no thank you

this is extremely insensitive and hits way too close to home with players who've experienced the loss of a child

i understand that its something that can happen in nature but this is a game played by humans. so no.



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ColdFang (#185778)

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Posted on
2021-01-19 17:06:49
Again, I agree with what you guys are saying, we could always have it as an option, or we can take it as more of a learning experience, there are other mutations on here that I believe to be sensitive, but instead I take it as an experience to learn more about it. Yes it is sensitive, I get that, I’m not putting this up to try to make people feel uncomfortable, I’m doing it as a learning experience.
And yet again, I’m not trying to hate on anyone. I wish everyone a good day



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Hearteater. (#60699)


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Posted on
2021-01-19 19:36:24
I know a lot of people who were pre-mature babies, myself included. I don't think you were doing this to be insensitive or crass. I think this is a good idea, game play wise. I genuinely do, but it has the potential to do more harm than good. Lethal mutations, in general, feel sensitive to me (not that they bother me, they're just really sad). So, logically, the argument could be presented that if lethals describing how a baby is wasting away then this should be okay. I think, ultimately, it is a very sensitive and more personal subject than lethal mutations and it's up to staff and all those people.

I won't be voting, because I see both sides of this!



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☾Seidhr☽ |
ROLLING FRIDAYS (#47547)

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Posted on
2021-01-19 21:51:23
I fully support to be quite honest, where I do agree it would be a little sensitive to some players, but honestly if it's done like the rest of the lethal mutations, I don't see an issue. Considering how natural premature births can be in both humans and different mammals.
Where I know premature births can be sensitive, so can using items for inducing abortions, or be okay with other lethal mutations that ALSO kill cubs unless frozen.

I'd like to honestly thank ColdFang for not only the suggestion, but FULL research into premature births, and figuring out how it could be a thing in LD as another lethal mutations, no subject of infant death is easy to take lightly, but honestly I think supporting this and finding away to match it under the veil of the other mutations will be good. Where most will get up in arms because it's insensitive, LD has always been working realistically- It's WHY they have lethal mutations after using CRB.
I'm not a fan of letting mutations like Harlequin Ichtyosis, which is literally an inside out cub, or Cyclopia where they don't survive. At least Premature babies have a chance to survive, regardless how small.



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🐝 Ginger_Bee 🐝 (#167127)

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Posted on
2021-01-20 02:03:53
^ This.



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Suzy { ALM } (#225832)

Prince of Terror
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Posted on
2021-01-22 22:13:08
I like this idea. It's part of life. As far as hitting too close to home, I think any of the mutations here (except for primal and tail mutes) any person can have. For example, my son suffers from mild autism and is deaf. I'm currently pregnant with twins and while one is fine, one has Down Syndrome. It's just part of life and sometimes life throws us shitty curve balls. Giving birth too early is something that happens often in the wild and in captivity. I have Nigerian Dwarf Goats and sometimes we have premature births. So you have my support, 100!



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ColdFang (#185778)

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Posted on
2021-01-23 10:11:58
Thank you so much, and thank you for sharing your personal life, I hope everything goes well with your pregnancy



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