Posted by [July] Balance Battles with the Celestials

Sprigatito G1 Deca (#169873)

Amorous
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Posted on
2022-07-01 03:26:55
Hi.

I don't mind that the Civil War story line is back; that's not the issue I have.

The issue I have right now is that my king is 2300+ stats right now, and I'm still somewhat struggling with the enemies in Celestial Explore. I can't even imagine how difficult it is for those within the lower stat bracket. I'm just suggesting that these battles be a bit more balanced in some way? It seems a little over the top that an enemy can just ping you for 40 damage out of nowhere, or that you can get slammed multiple times by an attack before you can use a lucky foot.

I understand that it's not necessarily supposed to be 'easy,' but I feel like it could be a bit easier? Maybe instead of allowing enemies to ping you for 40 damage in a hit limit it to 20? Or adjust it based off of level? Or don't allow enemies to multi attack you/stun so easily? I want at least the option to used a Lucky Foot if I feel like I'm going to lose and I have one handy.

Additionally, I feel like last year a lot of people had MS stacked from the previous year -- I don't think that's the same this year, which means people are going to have a much more difficult time exploring. Furthermore, only 1 AC per incredibly difficult enemy, or 3 for an even MORE difficult boss which you can't whip a lucky foot at, seems like a bit of an unfair tradeoff. We have no guarantee of getting AC, our only chance is to hope we find MS in explore (or get MS from the quests), and fight very difficult bosses regardless of our stats/level.

I want to make it clear: I LOVE the idea of the Celestial Explore; I think the art is lovely and the non-enemy encounters are neat. I just wish that the battles were fairer.

I'm absolutely open to ideas/suggestions, this is just something I'm feeling right now. If you don't support please let me know your thoughts!

So, Suggestions:

1) Make the battles more balanced/easier by lowering the damage cap and/or not allowing for multi-attacks or easy stunning

2)Decrease the amount of MS needed to explore and/or increase the amount of Axion Cores received *NOTE - Mods have decreased the amount of MS needed to explore from 5 to 2! Thank you Mods! (7/2/22)

3) From Mad Hyena (#29080): Make the enemies similar to normal enemies; no special abilities or hidden weaknesses

The problem with the celestial enemies is that they're all ambiguous fantasy draconic beings. Remembering strategies for each of various colored dragon is EXTREMELY hard, but their looks bear no clues whatsoever at what strategy to use at them,

Normal enemies got abilities based on their logical, species traits. Dogs have thin skin, rhinos have thicker skin, and so forth. But how in Africa are our lions supposed to tell WHAT is the stonger or weaker point of another color/shape of a space dragon? Their looks bear 0 clues about that! That makes them much harder than even the special abilities enemies from normal explore. Elephants and rhinos are just as strong, but with them you are able to Guess what their special ability is, and use according strategy. Cannot possibly guess with the space dragons!

SO I feel, they should just be normal enemies, WITHOUT any special abilties demanding for specific strategies. Its too hard to memorise dozens of strategies for all the unsuggesting dragon kinds.



This suggestion has 67 supports and 3 NO supports.



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Edited on 02/07/22 @ 00:38:11 by Sprigatito G1 Quad (#169873)

Mad Hyena (#29080)

Undead
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Posted on
2022-07-01 03:41:18
This is much needed! 1000% support!

It is just a tiresome grind, when you have to fight battle after battle and loosing, to scrap even a few axion cores. Its not fun, its not challenging, its just frustrating and disheartening.

Admins said last year the enemies "arent too high statted, but each has a special ability".
But there's one thing.
Our lions DO NOT have special abilities to counter those.
So its unfair in favor of the enemy, a balance style used for enemies on Wolvden - it does not belong on Lioden.



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Sprigatito G1 Deca (#169873)

Amorous
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Posted on
2022-07-01 03:46:43
Agreed, especially on the ability point; I think if maybe the character we aligned with gave us an ability to fight (eg Maybe Apedamek is strong against Bosses (ONLY BOSSES), Menhit is strong against Wyverns, Apollyon is strong against Snakes/Serpents, etc, or maybe each does something similar to the June NPCs) then sure -- but we don't have that.

It just feels like a big gamble with little payoff where I'm losing more than I'm winning in spite of really trying to make sure my stats were good and following strategy guides that other players have made. I just want to feel like I'm making progress/gains in some way



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Edited on 01/07/22 @ 03:47:09 by Sprigatito G1 Quad (#169873)

Mad Hyena (#29080)

Undead
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Posted on
2022-07-01 03:52:11
The problem with the celestial enemies is that they're all ambiguous fantasy draconic beings. Remembering strategies for each of various colored dragon is EXTREMELY hard, but their looks bear no clues whatsoever at what strategy to use at them,

Normal enemies got abilities based on their logical, species traits. Dogs have thin skin, rhinos have thicker skin, and so forth. But how in Africa are our lions supposed to tell WHAT is the stonger or weaker point of another color/shape of a space dragon? Their looks bear 0 clues about that! That makes them much harder than even the special abilities enemies from normal explore. Elephants and rhinos are just as strong, but with them you are able to Guess what their special ability is, and use according strategy. Cannot possibly guess with the space dragons!

SO I feel, they should just be normal enemies, WITHOUT any special abilties demanding for specific strategies. Its too hard to memorise dozens of strategies for all the unsuggesting dragon kinds.



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Edited on 01/07/22 @ 03:53:15 by Mad Hyena (#29080)

Sprigatito G1 Deca (#169873)

Amorous
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Posted on
2022-07-01 04:01:11
I added in your suggestion Btw — let me know if I captured what you said accurately

It is a challenge to memorize the new enemies we see only one month out of the year. It’d be nice is we had a guide in addition to the user compiled data because at this point it’s just guess and hope you got it right, and then get stunned into oblivion



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Mad Hyena (#29080)

Undead
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Posted on
2022-07-01 04:04:57
It is a challange when the enemy amount is bearable; but there are 40 different unique dragons that each has a special ability, that's a tad too much to memorise if it was only bosses that had special abilities, that'd be a nice fun challange. But ALL enemies is too much.

To compare, in other events with big amount of event enemies - like October - only a few of the enemies have special abilities; the rest are normal enemies.



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Edited on 01/07/22 @ 04:28:37 by Mad Hyena (#29080)

Lia-Lin
(Unholy|4xLeonid|G4) (#36246)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2022-07-01 05:24:57
100% support, and I agree with everything that's been said!

As an aside, my current struggle is the balance between collecting axion cores and wanting to complete the quests. My current quest is to defeat 12 enemies, so I have to choose between wasting energy to battle normal explore enemies, or trying desperately to win against the celestial explore enemies (which hardly ever happens). The fact that I can't simultaneously complete my quest and collect event currency makes the whole thing a bit of an unnecessary grind. Couple that with the fact that I am struggling to find MS in regular explore, it just makes things a tad too difficult in my opinion.
So yes, I support!!



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Lunar Lords (#86479)

Frivolous
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Posted on
2022-07-01 05:59:59
I'm going to withhold judgement on this right now. I didn't play in July last year ( or most of the year) so this is my first brush with celestials. In my first energy bar I got ten wins and two losses, and when I met the boss with the first encounter of my free energy I beat him too. I went from 0 to 28 axion cores in 120 energy. (Got some free from exploring too). Luck? Maybe. I use the same charge-> grab-> pound I do on any tough enemy and its working. I do know that the rate of gain will go down once I've burned through the backlog of meteorites, but as far as battles go I haven't seen a problem yet.



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Euzi {G1 5k Uneven
Quad Ros} (#260028)


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Posted on
2022-07-01 06:35:20
The only beings I found difficult to defeat are the bosses at the moment. Other than that, the basic ones are super easy to defeat and my kings are at 600 and 930 stats. Axiom cores in one energy bar - 30 gained.

I see no issue at the moment so, no support.



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Sprigatito G1 Deca (#169873)

Amorous
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Posted on
2022-07-01 15:16:46
@Lia - I can completely understand that! Adjusting some of the questions could probably be helpful as well!

@Lunar - For me, once I got through my backlog of MS it became much more challenging. Battles for whatever reason have been about 50/50 for me; sometimes it'll be fine and sometimes I own't be able to land a single blow. It's frustrating :/

@Euzen - While I understand that you've had it easier, I have a 2300+ stats king and still find myself losing regularly which doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Also you don't need energy to explore the CE? And while you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that, I'm going to disagree given that I see far more people struggling with it than finding it fair; if 90% of people are struggling vs 10% aren't, i'll align myself with the 90%



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Edited on 01/07/22 @ 15:35:27 by Sprigatito G1 Quad (#169873)

Desolace, Colorbomb (#36375)

Phoenix
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Posted on
2022-07-02 02:49:43
Here is a good example of WTF battles. This is WAY over tuned.

Return to Celestial Explore?
Exhausted and close to death, you use your last ounce of strength to flee the battle. You lose miserably, and lose -5 energy.
The Cluster Drakeling hits you for 18 damage.
You bite the opponent for 12 damage.
The Cluster Drakeling hits you for 13 damage.
You bite the opponent for 13 damage.
The Cluster Drakeling bites you badly for 23 damage.
You bite the opponent for 9 damage.
The Cluster Drakeling bites you badly for 29 damage.
You try to grab the opponent but fail.
The Cluster Drakeling bites you badly for 26 damage.
You charge at the opponent for 17 damage.
You have entered a battle with a Cluster Drakeling.



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Nahemii (side) (#216874)

Aztec Knight
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Posted on
2022-07-02 07:27:00
Same here.

My main lion with 1k stats has so much trouble winning agains any of them. Even my 5k side lion struggles with some o.O



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Slade (#36600)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2022-07-03 03:23:52
Here is a somewhat helpful hint:

Spam roar at cloud monsters.

Grab and claw Wyverns.

Pound snakes.

Avoid the rest as they are just ridiculously OP.

I support your idea.



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