yes, i love it!

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Sorry, this just feels a little... Offensive? There are intersex people and to refer to them as, well, mutations, just seems a little rude. And I don't really find a point to them being 'intersex' if they're basically just going to be a female with some added benefits (considering they take up a female slot... but the whole point of intersex is that they literally do not have a gender) No support.

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I wrote this as a thought and not to intentionally aggravate others. I do not see intersex people as "defective" or "aliens" or whatever. I simply thought it would be cool for a lion to be able to take up both roles. ( I picked the female slot because someone would have more female slots than male, and if it didn't take up a slot, someone could just stack up on infinite intersex lions. ) Again, this is not meant to offend anyone, but I appreciate your input.

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Sounds like having a lioness but with extra steps. It adds nothing to the game, no benefits, no mechanics, not even a different look. This kind of thing also just doesn't happen.

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if intersex lions were sterile and looked like a mix like a lioness with a partial mane or something and you could make them either a hunter, broodmother, or have them act as a submale and never king them I'd be happy with it make them trophies

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I thunk someone already suggested this
https://www.lioden.com/topic.php?id=304429468186

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I am aware!

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there are dogs and i think cats too that are intersex though, its not only possible in people.

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yes, i think so also

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I don't think the changing role is very practical but I do love the idea of intersex lions. Maybe they can't breed or be kinged (since they're neither male nor female) but they can hunt or be broodparents?

As for the look, I would go with something similar to adult male leopon pose- A tiny scruffy mane that isn't fully colored. Without the leopard-like anatomy though ofc.

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I saw someone mentioned earlier that this could be considered offensive because intersex people exist, and framing it as a "mutation" could be seen as demeaning or disrespectful. However, this wouldn't be the first time a human mutation appears in Lioden. Albinism, dwarfism, blindness and deafness are all real life conditions that human beings can have - and they are all accepted mutations in Lioden. In addition to this, a number of lethal mutations that exist in Lioden also exist in humans - harlequin ichthyosis, conjoined twins, lipomatosis, cleft palate and sirenomelia, just to name a few. If mutations were stigmatised in Lioden (eg considered gross/undesirable), I would feel more hesitant about adding intersex - however, in this game they're treated the opposite. Mutie cubs are a desirable thing to have. People actively try to breed them, celebrate when they have one, and trade them for large amounts of in-game currency. Adding an intersex mutation wouldn't stigmatize the condition any more than it does other conditions incorporated into the game. If done right, it might even be a great way to spread awareness about it.

This being said, I agree that it'd be fun to see intersex lions have an in-game mechanic: perhaps they're sterile and can't have cubs or be kinged, but they can alternate between hunting, broodmothering and patrolling! I'd love to see something like that to draw attention to a more positive aspect of the mutation. In terms of what slot they take up, I feel like forcing a mutie cub to take up a submale slot would make them much harder to keep, so for that reason, I'd be more keen to see them take up a lioness slot. However, if people are worried about that, maybe people could choose what kind of slot their lion takes up!

Disclaimer, I am not intersex myself. However, the user who commented about offensiveness does not appear to be intersex either, as they refer to intersex people as "them", suggesting they aren't part of that group. I just wanted to contribute my thoughts to the discussion, because I think this is a good idea, OP. I'm sure insights from actual intersex users would be really valuable to make this discussion even better!

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Woah wall of text.

Thanks for the imput!

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I personally think it's a really neat idea, how exactly it affects the game and the mechanics surrounding intersex lions probably needs more thought but it's definitely interesting. I don't think it'd be offensive either as long as any flavor text if there is any isn't demeaning or alienating. While I myself am not intersex, I could see it being nice representation as well. There's a lot of stigma surrounding intersex conditions and even though this is a lion breeding game like previously said muties are so loved and valued here.

As for some criticism, I think intersex lions should have their own unique look if possible since maned lionesses already exist in game. I'm not sure what the best way to do this would be, since lions don't differ much between genders outside of size and the obvious mane. They'd probably just be in a different pose and automatically have a partial mane.

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An intersex mechanic would be interesting, but I don’t think as a mutation

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hi!! hope you don't mind me adding my two cents as an intersex individual myself !! i do agree that other intersex individuals may take offense to our conditions being referred to as a "mutation", but i feel the concept of an intersex lion being added into the game would be quite nice.

i agree with scirocco in that it being considered a 'mutation' would not be any different from how blindness, albinism or other human disabilities and conditions also already exist as mutations in the game as of current! however, i will say that the mechanics of the game would need to change drastically to accommodate intersex lions. in real life, we are already persecuted and fetishised for not fitting into the binary of male/female. assigning roles (king, broodmother, hunter, submale) and breeding mechanics may become complex due to this issue, on top of how intersex individuals are often coercively assigned a sex at birth if their external genitalia do not fit the prescribed male/female anatomy (i.e., sex-changers in-game could become problematic to use on an intersex lion).

edit: some others have mentioned something i forgot to discuss in my initial post which is the fact that intersex is a spectrum. theres no one way to be intersex. its an umbrella term under which many conditions fall. perhaps there needs to be a more thorough and nuanced discussion about intersex lions and how they would be introduced in-game. additionally after looking through the wiki mutations, i believe we actually do have some intersex lions if you include maned lionesses etc.

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