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| Posted by | [Jan] Neutral karma option? |
 k9calamity (#104203) Toxic View Forum Posts  Posted on 2019-01-21 02:45:37 |
I noticed that the karma change at the choice of killing/sparing the queen is quite extreme, at 200 win or loss of karma. This can be an issue for neutral kings/queens, leaving you at the expense of having to karma wipe/buy and/or use vulture eggs to get back to neutral karma. I suggest that we add in a new option to account for this, to allow those who want to stay neutral to not gain or lose a significant (if any) amount of karma. This could be leaving the choice up to Laharu. Vulture eggs are awarded within the storyline, as well as quests afterward. You could argue these would sit as karma 'resetters' of some sort. However, if i was a neutral karma player, I would probably have many stockpiled to account for whatever changes may happen within in my karma. This would cause an issue as you would have to manually go in and consume/hatch the eggs one by one, as consuming/hatching them all at once would make your situation worse. It would be especially difficult during this event, as Berenos has pointed out below, you have the ability to get a max of 106 vulture eggs. This means you would absolutely need to go in one by one. You may argue this happens within pos/neg karma chasers as well with lions with kill/reserve options. But this is beside the point. Killing/reserving/eating/hatching is not mandatory for pos/neg karma. It helps, but is not mandatory. Doing these things is, however, mandatory within the world of neutral karma, to keep the balance without having to spend countless amounts of SB every time to buy a karma wipe. If you have any ideas, if love to hear and add them in as options! If you dont support, please let me know why! Edit 1: Grammar Edit 2: Removing reinforcements coming to save the queen option, as it contradicts the story and would leave an open, unsatisfactory ending, as pointed out by Berenos. Edit 3: Clarification on why this is needed, and why vulture eggs alone wouldn't be sufficient for neutral karma chasers. Edit 4: Further clarification not added within edit 3 on accident. |
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Berenos|On hiatus (#84593)
Resurgent View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-01-21 03:03:37 |
I'm sorry, but no support. The story has to reach its end with us defeating the matriarch one way or another - either ending her life and thus breaking the hyenas' leadership or sparing her but scaring her for attempting such a thing again; having guards come to her rescue when its been stated in the storyline that hyenas won't risk their life for their leader would be incongruous, and wouldn't give the definite finale the storyline needs. I understand the frustration of having to recover from a 200 points change of karma, but I thought that was what the daily quest' vulture eggs reward was for? If I did my calculus right and taking into account that we get 2 vulture eggs per daily quest until novel 2, and we get 5 vulture eggs per daily quest from then on onwards, that'd mean a max of 106 vulture eggs you can obtain to balance your karma (and 106 eggs are equal to 2120 positive or negative karma, more than enough to balance the 200 you get form the storyline finale variation). You could argue that there's people that don't hang around every day, but once the storyline has ended, you only need to complete the daily quest 2 days to get the 10 vulture eggs required to recover from the 200 karma variation.   0 players like this post! Like? |
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k9calamity (#104203)
Toxic View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-01-21 03:19:18 |
I can 100% understand your argument! But i think there should at least be an option to let Laharu choose, if anything for some sort of neutral karma points. It would still scare/end the Queen, still effectively defeating the matriarch, whether or not she is killed, if we omit the idea of guards coming to help. I believe it would still be a satisfactory and final ending to the storyline. My point is that we shouldn't HAVE to use those eggs to maintain the karma we'd like, just as pos and neg karma chasers don't technically have to use the eggs if they don't wish to. This makes it unfair to neutral karma chasers. To maintain neutral karma is much more frustrating, especially if you have an overabundance of vulture eggs. You cant consume/hatch them all at once or your karma may dip into the good or bad categories. This presents the problem of hatching one by one, which is tedious and frustrating to do. Yes, they could sell the vulture eggs they may not need, but what if another situation comes up in which they need to restore their neutral karma but have sold all vulture eggs needed? They would then need to purchase more eggs, or a karma wipe. 0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 21/01/19 @ 03:28:24 by Desrever 🌙 #BambiBaby 🌈 (#104203) |
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Berenos|On hiatus (#84593)
Resurgent View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-01-21 03:25:11 |
@Desrever You talk as if the vulture eggs had an expiration date. They can be kept around your limitless hoard until the moment you need them. Constummate karma players still have to go through the hassle of killing or reserving lions, and I don't see how cheking your karma at the snake and then using the hatch multiple eggs at once to reach the nearest point to 0 you can is any different - it is, in fact, far quicker than going through multiple lions one by one to get 5 karma. If you can find a suitable 3rd neutral option for the storyline that isn't incongruent with the storyline itself I may change my stance, but as far as I can see there is no unfair business going on here. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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k9calamity (#104203)
Toxic View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-01-21 03:42:47 |
@Berenos Again though, just as with the vulture eggs, Killing/Reserving lions is still not mandatory for karma. It helps, yes, but you do not have to do it. I never acted as if the eggs could expire, I only put forth the hassle it would create. You can either hatch one by one, or all at once. If you are using the eggs as a karma balancer and have, say as an example, 200+ stocked up, you can't hatch a select amount. Pos and neg karma does not require eggs or killing/reserving lions, whereas neutral pretty much does. Balancing karma is tricky and takes quite a bit of SB to continually check your karma score, so it would be nice to at least not have to worry about it in this event, when pos and neg karma chasers just swing flat one way and not worry about their karma unless they want to know how high/low it is, which isn't even necessary to check, as they know for a fact they will be one way or the other within the choices they make. I did state a suggestion above of letting Laharu choose the fate of the queen, which would not put any moral distress to the lion that would cause it to gain or lose karma. The queen would still have been either scared or killed, which would end the matriarchy either way Laharu may swing toward. The hyenas under the queen would not help her in this situation, which wouldn't go against what is in place in the story, and instead place the moral distress to Laharu instead of your king/queen, allowing for no karma drop or raise while still sticking to what is in place. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Berenos|On hiatus (#84593)
Resurgent View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-01-21 03:57:55 |
@Desrever It's true you have the option to use the vulture eggs in your hoard all at once or one by one, but you can use the organization tab to bury whatever eggs you don't need to use then use the ones left over in your regular hoard. If the issue is with the vulture eggs being a nuisance, then suggest or support it if it's already been for them to be used like coconuts or broken drones. If this is such a hassle and you don't want to spend currency in checking your karma with the snake, there is the option to not have a title locked to keep an eye on it - because it will vary with your karma, and you can use it to estimate how much you have using the wiki article. Not all players that play for positive or negative karma will pick the option that gives them the karma they want, either, and have to recover from the variation just like neutrals would, there is nothing against neutral karma players in particular. As far as I can see, this is not an issue with the storyline itself - which is the thing you propose to change - but how inconvenient it is to recover from the karma change after. Giving Laharu the choice to kill or spare the matriarch could be a nice solution, if only his character were written differently. This hyena helps us find what is making the lack of prey worse in exchange of food - he helps us, does what we want, in exchange for food -, and when we are given the choice to have him kill the matriarch or spare her he's shown unsure: he doesn't know what to do, so he leaves the decision-making up to us. To tell him "do whatever you want" is to throw back the trust he places on us to make the decision, and personally I'd find it very lacking in comparison to the rest of the storyline. 0 players like this post! Like? |
bearo the brash (#148694)
Impeccable View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-01-21 04:25:43 |
i'd love a neutral karma option, for my next king i'm thinking of going neutral so it'd be nice to have a choice for when that time rolls around 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Aredy1974 (#166030)
Divine View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-01-21 21:21:08 |
I love this idea. I'm trying to make my king as evil as possible. But, I know a lot of people like neutral karma and I think this would be great for them. Maybe a neutral option could be something like "give her a warning bite on the rump" or "scar her for life". 0 players like this post! Like? |
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