Posted by Fixing the chimera mutation problems

Katerade [x5 Rosette
Sunset] (#149381)

Remarkable
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Posted on
2021-03-23 18:29:43

A possible solution to the chimera mutation56742f2dba.gif
Info
Hi there everyone! As you may know, Chimera is a mutation that has been suggested many times. However, there are problems surrounding it's implementation due to the nature of how its coding would exist. I've thought about it a bit, and I hope to address some of these issues in a way that make it possible to consider. I understand the developers have seen Chimera suggestions before and may not be open to creating the mutation, so this isn't meant to circumvent any previous decisions that have been made. This is just for fun!

Chimera Appearance
The mutation would involve a new pose, which would be similar to something seen here. Anything with a slightly overhead view, or a side view with the lioness looking back, would work the best. This would allow the user to see the two "sides" of the lion's face and body, which you normally can't see on any Lioden poses. If anyone would like to create a mockup, I'd greatly appreciate it!
MEtEmiu.jpg
8QVwsj8.jpg

For the chimera's appearance to be created, I'd suggest that the chimera pose be two png halves put together. Each "side" of the cub will be assigned "A" or "B" when generated by the game, with each letter being assigned an individual side. The two sides will be put together as one image, thus generating the lion onto the full chimera pose. I've attached an example using the good pose:
bDIOcNf.png+i6IcUvJ.png=Er8n1XQ.png

Rules for Breeding the Mutation
• A minimum of a 2 cub litter - this is because when chimera occurs, two embryos are merged into one. This means your lioness must roll for 2 cubs naturally, or with the use of breeding items.
• OPTIONAL - Chimera litters will always have one less cub - again, two cubs will be merging into one. This means that if a buffalo scrotum is used, and your lioness has a chimera cub, the litter will be reduced to 2 cubs (one normal, and one chimera). This is suggested IF option A from "How the Cub's Genetics are Determined" is chosen - see below!
• A lion scrotum will create a 5% pass chance, like with DU lionesses - Whether or not this suggestion stays is up to the developers, but I feel like this would be the best option
• Breeding items will apply to all cubs, the same as any other mutations - This means if you use an opal saltlick on your lioness, both sets of genetics on the chimera cub with have the same colored eyes (this bit is obvious, but I figured it should be covered anyways)

How the Cub's Genetics are Determined
Previously, issues arose with the Chimera mutation when trying to factor in two sets of genetics. I've thought about what would be the easiest to implement, and I have two suggestions. Which one works the best is determined by whether mutations or appearances roll first on cubs, as well as whether or not deleting a preborn cub is possible. Since I'm not a Lioden coder, I'm not sure which suggestion is easier, so hopefully this provides the options needed for implementation.

OPTION A
The cubs appearances will be rolled first, with the mutations rolled afterwards. As previously stated, the chimera mutation is the combining two cubs into one. As a result, if the mutation rolls on a cub, it will delete a random cub in the litter and overlay said cub's genetics onto the chimera. This would result in a "true" chimera, as it would be truly combining two cubs.

OPTION B
The cub's mutations will be rolled first, with the appearances rolled afterwards. If a cub happens to land the chimera mutation, it will simply roll its own genetics twice. The first set will go on the left, and the second set will go on the right. This option leaves the other cubs in the litter completely unaffected.

Breeding to an Adult Chimera
Another issue I've seen with the chimera suggestion arises when breeding an adult chimera to a stud. Many suggestions fail to describe which genetics will be used in breeding, so I have a two options to cover this as well. In either situation, perhaps a new type of lion page can be created specifically for chimeras, which includes extra space on the table for the additional genetics

OPTION A - the easiest
When the chimera cub is born, a random side of the lion is determined dominant. The game will take everything from one side, including its markings, eyes, base, etc. and only count that side as it's "true" genetics. Only that side will be considered by the game, and the other half will be purely cosmetic, to simplify coding. Whether or not an item is released that allows the user to swap the dominant side is up to the dev's discretion.
8GnFwJP.png
Click to view a larger version

OPTION B - the hardest
When the chimera cub is born, either side's base, eyes, marking slots, etc. all roll against each other. There would be no dominant "side" as each quality from the lion will be rolled for A or B. For example, in this lion, its bolded qualities are what are considered by the game as its genetics. The other options are purely cosmetic, to simplify coding. Perhaps an item that completely randomizes which qualities are dominant may exist, at the mod's discretion.
U9iVeJc.png
Click to view a larger version
Notice how in this version, slot 4 is not boldened on the left side, nor does it exist on the right side. This means that the right side has been chosen as dominant for slot 4, which has no marking.

Q&A
Q - Why do we need this mutation?
A - We don't. This is just something I thought about for fun. If it happens to be possible in the game, why not?

Q - Wasn't this already suggested?
A - Yes, it was. I'm completely aware and accepting of the mods' current decision on Chimera. This thread was made purely to outline ideas. I do not expect this thread to change anyone's mind or magically fix anything. Like I said before, this is for fun!

I will add more later if anyone has any questions

Additional Suggestions
None yet

Thanks for reading! If anyone has any additional suggestions or comments, feel free to reply! :)




This suggestion has 314 supports and 6 NO supports.



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Edited on 23/03/21 @ 19:08:40 by Katerade [x3 Rosette Sunset] (#149381)

morgmoth (#226699)

Vicious
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Posted on
2021-03-23 18:34:10
YES.



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Liger Z
(intersteller king) (#75399)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2021-03-25 20:34:55
huh it seems both easier and harder to implement then again I'm no programmer so



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Plain(side) (#227565)

Amiable
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Posted on
2021-06-08 14:54:34
That would be so cool



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◖leopald|G2 kiman
dorsal fur◗ (#47307)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2022-10-09 11:07:17
Neat idea, but in reference to the visual examples, with the way lioden markings work I don’t really see this being a viable solution.

On a lion’s page each marking is a separate image stacked on top of eachother, so they probably couldn’t easily just take the entire picture of your lion and cut it in half to put together. They’d have to have separate images for the 2 versions of every marking for the left & right, and for every mark in the game that seems like a bit of a nightmare to deal with haha.

To be fair they could just do that for one half, and have the other half be a full normal lion below those layers, but that may cause some issues with lines looking too thick around the edges since it’s doubled. I also imagine this’d be a bit image heavy for people with slower internets but that’s kinda inherent to any version of the chimera mutation that involves genetics from two lions.

Either way I don’t have the insider knowledge of how all this stuff works or if there’d be a good workaround for those issues so it may be doable! Just thought I’d say my piece on that bc the chimerism discussion is interesting haha

(edited to break up the text wall a bit I tend to ramble )



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Edited on 09/10/22 @ 11:08:13 by ◖leopald|G3 kiman echo◗ (#47307)

zeni (#345950)

Incredible
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Posted on
2022-10-28 13:01:24
This would be awesome



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Noisy🐤 (#373504)


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Posted on
2023-06-09 07:53:21
How would marking applicators work? Would they have to add an extra option for chimeras to be able to choose which side the marking went to, or would it be added to either side at random?

And that's the same problem with any applicators, how would the game let you choose which side to add the applicator to? Especially with bases and eye applicators.



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Scorpioness (#225561)

Angelic
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Posted on
2023-06-13 23:14:14
Oh this looks neat, but I think that only one chimera side should have markings (the customizeable side) and the other side should be an overlay like in pies or achromia/melanism, but in a form of just plain markingless common base with predetermined eye and skin color (i think that it doesn't even need to be all bases, but like one from each base colors, shades and solids/countershadeds), any rarer bases could be clashing for exmple: prismatic x decennial chimera, or interstellar x chalistosis chimera. The genetics of the overlay chimera side could be either random or rolled from random cub in the litter.
I think that it would be a little simpler solution than rolling both chimera sides genetics and in the genetics tab the mutation could be listed as chimera (common base name variant)

My take on chimera mock-ups:

Chimera overlay (White base variant):



Ornament x White chimera (White base is an overlay)



Ornament x White chimera (fiery mottled fissures + hyena blots heavy ebony):



Other variants:




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Edited on 14/06/23 @ 02:30:06 by Scorpioness (#225561)

CaitlinSnep (#215326)

Nice Guy
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Posted on
2023-07-28 13:38:18
I think the idea of one side of the chimera just being a solid, single base makes sense!



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Readytest (#431796)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2023-08-20 04:16:05
Yes, I would like markings on both sides!



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Readytest (#431796)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2023-08-23 17:51:23
Ooh! Maybe we could do it like they did in [I'm not risking getting my whole comment deleted] where there's different types of Chimera!

Like one could just be pure white, one could be pure black, one could be gray, one could be a brown brindle, one could be a cloudburst, and so on!



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Readytest (#431796)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2023-08-23 17:52:36
And I like the idea that one less cub from a 2+ cub litter! ^_^



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Savanna (#299126)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2023-08-28 02:43:51
I love the idea! I like the idea of the whole mutation and your options are quite interesting too!



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