Posted by [++] The Ability System

Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-08 20:54:29

The Ability System

- balance for gameplay

After many changes in the gameplay, the way the battles and the new claiming system works, I think there could be a small addition, which shows our hard work and affects our progress a lot more than stats.

So, I propose a new system.


The Ability System

Description:
This system would be completely independent of stats.
So, the lions could use abilities in either fighting, charming, or exploring to make them more successful. These abilities would depend on points, level, skill, and karma.

How it works in short:

There would be a total of 10 abilities in fighting, 3 for charming, and 5 for exploring. (these can be changed)
Each ability appears at the aforementioned situations which then can be used to gain advantage.
Each ability will need points to have a potential efficiency, skill to reach the true efficiency, and karma, which determines your ability arsenal.

Points:
Points can be used to make an ability better and be performed with a greater success rate. It is never 100% though. In total 10 points can be added to one ability to reach its max potential, which would be performed at 90-95% efficiency.

Points can be earned by:
- Leveling (2 points - maybe rarely 3 points) - 31 levels give 62 points
- Visiting for 12 consecutive days (1 point) max 16 points
- Fighting NPCs (a 10% chance for 1 point)
- Claiming lionesses (a 5% chance for 1 point)
- Reaching the next karma level (1 point) -only once each karma level - max 34 points
- Filling Dreamboat Impression bar (1 point?)

Max 180 points can be assigned entirely.

Level:
Level is mainly used to earn points. Each time you level, you earn 2-3 points, so leveling will become a greater desire to players. It also –just like now- raises the limit of skill you can earn.

Skill:
Skill would determine how much % of the points you have will be counted in per ability. After all, the points only determine the potential efficiency of an ability. So if you have 10 points in one ability, but have barely any skill, then a low % of these points will be counted into the performed ability, so it still can fail, despite the high success rate.
This would also depend on your level, considering the limit on the skill.

Eg.:
Level 20 lion has 10 points in one ability, so has technically 90-95% chance to succeed, but has only 120 skill (so half of the max of that level), he would end up with 45-50% success at an ability if performed.

Level 2 lion has 10 points in one ability, so has technically 90-95% chance to succeed, but has only 12 skill (so half of the max of that level), he would end up with 45-50% success at an ability if performed.

(Although, the last would be impossible, due to the point distribution, but it shows well, that low level, even new players will not be at great disadvantage)

Karma:
Karma would ultimately determine what kind of fighting abilities your lion can have.
They could be put into two groups: Good Karma abilities, Bad Karma abilities.
(Each would contain 5 abilities)
Obviously, if you have positive karma, then you will end up with the former.
If you have neutral Karma… then you can have both groups, so it pays off the effort to keep a neutral Karma, and Cleansing Ichor would be used more frequently.
However!
Pay attention!

‘More’ doesn’t always mean ‘better’.

How would this work?
Every lion starts out with a set of 10 fighting abilities, 3 charming abilities, and 5 exploring abilities, due to having neutral Karma. All abilities would have no points within them.
Upon starting the game with a lion (be it starter or heir) you get 5 points to start out with, which you can distribute wisely among the 18 abilities.

From there, the game starts. Leveling, fighting, maybe even attacking other lions could give you points, which you can wisely put into your chosen abilities. You can either work for a positive, negative, or neutral Karma, which will modify the arsenal of abilities in fighting.

NPC fights:
Once entering battle, you can choose between the specific amount of abilities in an attack depending on your karma. There would be HP for both you and your opponent, just like right now. The success of the battle may depend on your abilities.

PVP fights:
The bonus abilities (see below) that you can gain from the ability system affect PVP. This would be one thing that could be connected to the ability system and a goal to set for players to unlock the special passive abilities for their lions in each generation.

Claiming Lionesses:
Once you click ‘Claim her’, you will be brought onto the claiming page.

There, your Charming abilities are listed, which you can use to either boost your chances or reduce the temper of the lioness. Maybe there could be a passive ability, which lets you start with an extra heart or two in the bar.

Exploring:
Instead of just the explore button, there would be abilities listed right along with it, which you can choose to perform every 4 hours (or once a day). They will help you with exploring upon activation.

Eg.: One ability could help you find quest items, another that lets you find more resting places, perhaps another that increases or decreases enemy encounters.

What about Lionesses?
I had two ideas for this.

a) They get no abilities or points.

b) They would have their own set of abilities. Hunting abilities. They can have a chance of gaining points after each successful hunt, and get 2-3 points after each level-up. These would be passive abilities, so always active.

List of Abilities
Note: This can be changed, altered, these are just suggestions, taken from this thread or thought out on my own or they already exist. All damage of an ability falls back on your lion if it failed.

Fighting Abilities:
(The more points you put into an ability, the less chance there is to miss -but cannot overwrite the written-down limit- OR the more damage/protection the ability gives)
Negative Karma-
- Suffocate - 30% damage
- Scratch limbs - 20% damage
- Roar of Fury - Gives + 10% damage to next attack - Opponent freezes/ Fail ends in you receiving 10% damage (+ damage done by opponent?)
- Neck bite - 20% damage, has a 30% chance of breaking opponent’s neck, so ending the fight
- Last Stand - When your lion reaches 20% or less health, he can attack out of turn once. Does 40% damage at 40% chance of success.

Positive Karma-
- Intimidating Roar - 10% damage - Opponent freezes
- Dominating - 20% damage - 30% chance of Opponent getting intimidated and flees
- Thick Skin - Receive 10% less damage at next turn - Guaranteed (+ Can use another ability?)
- Bluff Charge - 20% damage
- Last Stand - When your lion reaches 20% or less health, he can sound a thundering roar, which has a 40% chance of sending the opponent fleeing.

Charming Abilities:
(The more points you add to an ability, the more chance there is that the lioness will like the move)
- Apedamek's Blessing - Adds 1-2 hearts to the claiming bar.
- Right of the King - Removes 2-3 temper from the bar
- Prince Charming - Adds an extra heart to each of your moves in this claiming attempt.

Exploring Abilities:
(The more points are put into an ability, the more clicks the ability lasts -but not more than what is written down)
- Catnip/Flower Bath - adds 20% more chance to find NCLs and feline opponents for the next 30 clicks.
- Mark Territory - reduces the NPC encounter by 20%, adds 20% chance to finding carcasses and items. Lasts 30 clicks.
- Lazy Cat - Rest 30% more times to gain more energy. Lasts 20 clicks.
- Sneaky Raccoon - Find 40% more carcasses for the next 20 clicks.
- Focus - Adds 30% chance to finding quest items/NPCs for the snake. Lasts 30 clicks.

Hunting Abilities: - For Lionesses
- Power - The more points it contains, the more % chance it adds for bigger carcasses despite level/skill
- Lone Hunter - The more points it contains, the more % chance it adds for this lioness to bring back +1 smaller carcass from a hunt
- etc…
If Roles for Lionesses are brought in, there can be abilities specifically for those roles.

Important Notes:
- Do not ask for stats to affect the abilities. They wouldn’t.
- Submales should only gain up to 120 skill in their patrols to prevent huge advantages.
- Ability points are not inherited, just like skill, Karma, and level. The perfect way to balance gameplay between oldies and newbies.
- Points for Karma levels are only given out once. Eg. If you reached Dreamboat of Ladies and got the points, then you use the ichor to reset your Karma, you will not get points again for the level scale. (in one lion's lifetime)
- Upon switching from positive to negative Karma, or vice versa, the points you already put into the opposite ability will not vanish but will be saved to when you get back to that karma.
- Enables tactical thinking
- Effort of an individual would be shown in three ways instead of one: stats, points, maxed abilities
- No GB items that give you points, please...
- Suits all playerstyles: PVP players, PVE players get something to do, and breeders for looks can keep breeding for looks.
-----------------------------------

New Additional Ideas



1.) Bonus Passive Abilities
After maxing out the abilities of one section (fighting, exploring, charming), you could maybe get a bonus passive ability as a reward for that section. These abilities would be of course more valuable, since they are rewards, and would be always affecting your gameplay.

Suggestions:
Fighting ability -
Negative Karma: Beast - Deliver 5% more damage per attack
Positive Karma: Paladin - Receive 5% less damage per attack

Charming ability - Dreamboat: Start claiming by the bar already having 25% filling

Explore ability - Voyager: Receive 10% more exp OR receive additional explore steps

I also had the idea, that perhaps after collecting each of these bonus abilities, you could have one reward ability for it, called 'The King of the Jungle'. I am not sure what it would do though. Unlocking this ability will be practically impossible, so it could do pretty badass things.
----------------------------------
This idea is highly in development, and am free to suggestions. Give your own opinion.

Thanks.




This suggestion has 209 supports and 96 NO supports.



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Edited on 15/04/17 @ 13:33:35 by Axel (#6627)

Zizi (#12557)


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Posted on
2014-04-09 01:46:58
Interesting



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Sootsprite (#28010)

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Posted on
2014-04-09 03:20:18
"Please don’t just consider how much effort you put into your lion to get them to their high stats. That is no argument. Stats do nothing, and will not do anything in the future, due to impossible odds. I will ignore all such arguments. Not like your gameplay will be changed. There is nothing to take away from the current 'uses' of stats."

That right there could possibly be taken to offense by some people . BUT i do find this idea rather interesting although as of this moment Im not 100% sure as to whether or not I should support it . Also, you must remember that Lioden is very much still in beta so whether or not they'll give stats purpose is unknown .



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Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-09 03:50:02
They shouldnt though. There is nothing offensive, just the naked truth. And explaining a possible argument against the idea is not offensive either. I simply wish to avoid such complaints and concentrate on different problems.

As for if there will be uses for stats or not... I am not sure. Everything is too much unbalanced, people are complaining, wanting a change, yet wouldnt tolerate a stat reset. Without a balancing in stats, there can be no uses implemented that would be fair towards all, towards oldies, towards, super statters, towards casual players, towards newbies.

Many are content with having stats just as a visual look. Fine, they can have it as a visual look. But for those who want something useful, this idea might be for them.



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ChaosAzeroth🐱 (#2690)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2014-04-09 06:05:30
Well, considering personally have gotten about 300 stats on one of my lionesses all with the new system...Yeah, that'd be pretty rotten to just do a global reset thing. Again. After being promised it wouldn't happen again.
((Yes, we were promised that.))
No support. They said they're doing stuff with stats, let them do it.



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~ Mahogi the Blunt ~ (#11476)

Scourge of Lions
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Posted on
2014-04-10 00:55:37
Really interesting addition. Stats doubtfully will be removed, as staff is doing "something" about it, but all this sounds like a great addition.
Support from me!

I myself suggested stat reset in the forums, and oh, the panic.



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Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-10 01:07:45
Well, I guess people could still collect them for visuals, like they do now. Not like much will be changed. That stats truly get removed or not, I would leave that to the devs.

But sadly I cannot see how stats would be able to affect gameplay in any way if they stay the way they are. It would be impossible to make it fair to all.



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Timothy (AS) (#18706)

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Posted on
2014-04-10 23:37:45
I rather have the staff implement uses for stats and then also up the amount new players start with than let the game change completely to something very new and frankly very confusing, so I rather not support for the fact as I like stats myself, even if they do nothing it is fun to get them, it shows hard work, it gives a reward for hard work and that is what I like about stats so no support from me



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Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-11 00:07:18
This would show hard work too.
With the difference that in this idea hard work actually pays off, and this hard work actually changes your gameplay.

Plus it wouldnt let people 'fly away' with the abilities than they are able to do so with stats. It shows the effort put into the lion by the individual than just buying it off of someone with high stats.

So, basically better than stats :)

And I dont understand what is confusing on the system.
At fighting/claiming/exploring you can use listed abilities to give you advantage. The effectiveness of said abilities depend on points you put into them, which can be collected by various activities.

This is the idea in a nutshell.



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Edited on 11/04/14 by Axel (#6627)

OrenOtter [Senpai
Shaggy] (#11207)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2014-04-11 23:30:31
No support. This seems a bit unneeded as there's a use for stats being developed right now.



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Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-11 23:33:39
That is the thing. I see no true way how that can be done without making it unfair for one group of players.

There is too great of a gap between them, and many players styles with different activity.

I give no future to stats, hence why I proposed this to replace the uses they might attempt to implement.



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Nny (#257)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2014-04-15 22:54:27
You know, I really like this idea! I shall now click the support button! ^^

Wonderful idea Axel, Wonderful idea!



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Shasta Rou (#4673)

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Posted on
2014-04-17 09:30:20
I do like this thought. but wont there be a problem with higher lvls at that point? then there will just be a new problem arise i think... i know stats are pointless at this point in time but it is very much fun to try and get higher stats. and alot have been working for that "useless" thing. but.. i do kinda like this point system. it would also mean everyone start all over tho and that would not be fun... i have been on here a year and seen alot change. some good some not so fun. but guess we shall see where this goes


also.. if this were to be implemented.. think about a year from now.. there will be more newbies to.. is there going to be some kind of yearly reset to "balance"? there really sadly is no way to balance anything between old and new players.. there will always be people signing up.. about the only way to close that gap after a reset would be to not allow anymore new people to join and that would just well hurt the game more. :/ sadly

another thing i thought of is they are trying to implement something to help with stats. why not give something a try? we dont even know if its going to work or not since it hasnt even been added :) maybe it will work maybe it wont who honestly knows. but give something a try that neither you nor anyone else has even gotten a chance to see how it goes. kinda learning that fast with this game lol



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Edited on 17/04/14 by BanditCatOfLove [STL][CC] (#4673)

Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-17 18:23:20
wont there be a problem with higher lvls at that point?
Could you please expand on this problem? I dont really see a problem with higher levels neither in NPC fights or PVP.

is there going to be some kind of yearly reset to "balance"?
There is no need for a yearly reset to balance. Your lion will be reset as soon as he dies. Meaning, that the points are not inheritable. You start over collecting them and putting them into your abilities. This gives you the chance for new tactics.

they are trying to implement something to help with stats. why not give something a try?
As long as stats are inheritable, I honestly dont see the point. No matter how slow, there will be always greater and greater gap between actives and the other players.
And what would they base on the stat uses? The casual playerbase -which are more- or the active playerbase -which are less but would only see the benefit of stat uses than feel the negative effects. If they base it on the actives... then the casual players will complain.

The way they were talking about in the meeting, they want to give uses to individual stats. Which I again dont see the point of. There is no way to collect specific stats. What you get is random. And giving more ways to get stats because of this isnt going to help the situation.

And I dont really care what will happen to stats after this would be implemented. The developers can remove them altogether, or keep it and you can keep collecting them but would continue doing nothing..... Or keep them but disable the ability to get more, so as you breed new lions, the stats will slowly go back to zero. It is up to the staff. But uses would be too risky.



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Shasta Rou (#4673)

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Posted on
2014-04-17 23:56:58
higher lvls as in the have a chance to gain more points *if i read that correctly*

also my husband came up with a good point to.. about this whole player gap stuff. in all honesty in order to stop such a player gap would also be to limit the amount of time one is on.. and thats just not do able either. I play other games... such as ovipets. theres always someone new poping up and there is no complaint that so and so has a higher mutated pet then someone who has been there for say 3 years... theres always going to be a new player problem. i guess i just dont see why some make a fuss over it is all..



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Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-18 00:46:06
higher lvls as in the have a chance to gain more points
This is the natural gap you are talking about below this comment. Those who are on higher level of course also invested time and effort into making their lion the way it is now. New players -and those who have a new king- will have to build up.

The difference between stats and points is that the point system does not allow huge advantages, those that would discourage other players. Be it a newbie or a casual oldie.

It is one thing to have a gap between newbies and oldies, but it is another if this gap is just as huge between oldies themselves (actives and casuals). While even the ability system will allow a certain gap between players, the gap itself will be basically reset as soon as the lion is replaced. So, it does not have the issue of 'stats' growing with each generation and actives 'flying away' from the major playerbase.

The major difference is the inheriting factor. Stats are a problem due to enabling constant growth, thus becoming an issue when implementing uses for stats.

Say:
Speed enables a certain damage at enemies at an ability called 'Charge', maybe 100 speed gives 50%, while 200 gives 100% hit. Right now it sounds good, but because a certain % of stats can be inherited, this speed will grow in majority. Soon the average speed will be 200 at birth, which means that from there on everyone has 100% hit...

Doesnt sound exciting, does it? Neither can the developers give a higher stat as base, because of the newbies.

If the average stats of today (1000 stats overall) would be put as base for the uses of stats... then newbies would have no chance to even survive on this game. They would be forced to get rid of their starter lions, buy a higher statted one, and pay 10GB for early retirement to even have a chance. Casual players wouldnt see any benefit of it either.

Hence why a system is far better where no such thing as inheriting is possible, so disabling constant growth, basically placing a 'limit' which is invisible.



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