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| Posted by | Steady the Market -- Stats & Customs |
 GamingGal (#18503) Sapphic View Forum Posts  Posted on 2013-09-25 15:44:38 |
Before you immediately cry "NO!" please hear me out. I haven't been with the game that long, but I've been watching the market. Custom coats don't really seem to change the value of a cub. What changes it is the stats. From what I've seen, people only value cubs that are 250-300+ range. In a few months that's going to rise to 400-500+ and so on and so on. I'm thinking long-term here, people. Eventually what we value now will be dirt. And god help the new players who have to climb the ranks. So, here are my suggestions. Stats The way it is set right now they climb and climb with no max (I'm not suggesting a max). If you do your breeding right, you can get high stat cubs after a few generations, especially if you work everything by the formula (Mother+Father/4 then divided by .8). Think about what this is going to lead to. Eventually the norm is going to be cubs with 1000+ stats. I'm not saying that's bad, but it's going to skew the economy big time. Everything less than 400 stats or so (just guessing here) will be worthless. I'm suggesting two possible options to fix this: 1)A stat cap for cubs. To me, this makes sense. Cubs are babies. I wouldn't expect them to be these super lions right away, which is what they are going to eventually turn into if things are left the way they are. or/and 2)A lower pass rate for stats. This would help curb how fast things are happening, although I'm not sure it would fix it, maybe slow it, but not fix it. Again, you have to think to the future to see where I'm coming from here. Custom Coats I've made a thread about this before, but I've decided to condense it in with this one since it pretty much deals with the same idea. I'm basing my idea off the fact that, when the Maltese coat was released it was stated as being "extremely rare, yet a normal pass rate." That just....is like an oxymoron to me. How can something be extremely rare but pass at the same rate as a wild coat? Sure, it costs 3GB to obtain, but from there on it can flood the market, and it has! Is this bad? Not necessarily, but the coat itself isn't worth more than any other custom coat. My suggestion is as follows: 1) Dominant/recessive coats. This is a breeding SIM pretty much. Everyone wants pretty lions, high stat lions, or (more often than not) both together. It would make sense to bring in the basic laws of breeding. This is how someone put it in the old thread: Say in genetics, Maltese is represented as M. If you have MM (one gene from each parent), you get a cub that has the Maltese color. Mm doesn't show, but carries Maltese. If breed to another Mm, you have a 25% chance of an MM (Maltese cub). Bred MM x Mm, you get 50% chance of a Maltese (MM) cub. mm x mm means no Maltese genes so no chance of Maltese cubs. Mm x mm means no Maltese but a chance for carrier cubs that can produce if bred to another carrier. MM x mm means you will have 100% carriers who can produce Maltese if bred to other carriers/Maltese. It would give a new facet to the game and make players THINK a little before breeding willy nilly. It would also make the coats worth more because they wouldn't pop up without reason. They would be carefully thought out and planned for. Not to mention the custom coats should be harder to get because they are custom. They should not be as common as the Wild coats are, which currently they are. Heck, there almost seems to be more custom coats than wild coats. To me, it also makes sense that the Albino coat would be even harder to get to pass because, hello, Albinos are supposed to be an anomaly of nature. I know this game isn't completely realistic, but still. Just a random bit that I felt. This idea for the custom coats could also be used for the custom mane colors/lengths as well, same with eyes. Anything custom should be harder to get a hold of than the wild counterparts. Conclusion If we want the economy to last, we need to start thinking about what things are affecting it currently. As I've just stated, stats and coats seem to be the big thing that are controlling the market. If we don't slow down this runaway carriage we're on, what we consider high stats right now will eventually be dirt. I'd add in that custom coats would be in surplus, but that already seems to have happened. If we don't want to suffer that and have to fix it then, let's become aware of it now and make steps towards preventing that. It would prolong the life of the game by keeping the economy from becoming skewed. Okay, let the feedback commence. |
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Sekhmet (Kayel) [200-Reds] (#12887) Merciful View Forum Posts Posted on 2013-09-25 15:51:36 |
Your genetics example is funky but I agree with the premise. Capital letter generally stand for being dominant so if you're trying to make Maltese something that is recessive you would say "M" stands for non-Maltese, while "m" stands for Maltese. Then do your punnet squares. It's just naming conventions so I got what you were trying to say but it might be confusing to others.  0 players like this post! Like? |
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GamingGal's Side (#18817)
Deathlord of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2013-09-25 16:00:22 |
I copied it from the previous thread and the person who had posted it before, so if you think it needs editing, please let me know how to fix it and I will ^.^ 0 players like this post! Like? |
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WitchWolf (#5939)
Deathlord of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2013-09-27 15:23:53 |
Colour genetics - By all means yes! Stats, however.... They need a pretty thorough dissection. As things are now, we have an extremely quick generation turnover and that, in turn, leads to stats going up at an incredible pace. This is starting to present a problem, yes. Now, curbing the stat gain for cubs might be a good start, but again, quick generaition turnove will soon make that pretty obsolete - it might slow things down a bit, but not enough to have any impact. So, I'd suggest a variant of what Howrse has, namely some sort of a "genetic cap" In a nutshell, limit the maximum stat gain a cub can have based on its stats at birth and its parents' stats as they were at the time the cub was concieved (ie, at the time of breeding) Basically, if a cub has single digit stats, like the NCLs do, the top it could achieve would be around 100 points on each stat. After the cap is reached, said cub (now already an adult) does not gain any more stats, period. And that goes for both males and females, yes, including the pride leader. Breed such a cub to an equal cub, and the next generation will probably have double digit stats, say around 20-30(ish) on each stat. That generation could gain up to 150 stats, but no more than that. Etc, etc, etc... you see where I'm going with this. That, and also, rework the way stats are inherited from parents. I did an experiment few days back just to see what would happen. I bred my leaderboard boy to a lowly NCL and ended up with two 300+ stat cubs. Such a thing simply should not be allowed to happen! Yes, those are the average cub stats when the current stat inheritance formula is applied. So what I'd suggest would be to rework the formula so that it takes the stats of the lower-statted parent as its main axis. Meaning, in short, that you can breed a high stat lion to an NCL all you want, you simply cannot get a cub with more than 20-30(ish) points on each stat. Round it down, severely. Put all those plus the original post dideas together and I think it just might slow the pace down a bit. And as an added bonus, perhaps take a hatchet to spam-breeding the NCLs, special coats&markings and general low-ball lions to high statted ones. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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GamingGal (#18503)
Sapphic View Forum Posts Posted on 2013-09-27 15:59:50 |
Going to start with your reworking of stats are inherited since the other I need to think how to word my feelings on it. I can see the point of what you are suggesting, but I feel this would put off newer players. They have nothing but their roll male and NCLs usually in the beginning unless someone gifts them. Usually, they want to get high stats pretty fast, yeah? And the easiest way to do it is to breed to a leaderboard or high-stat male. Problem with your suggestion is that if it was implemented it wouldn't allow them to get any sort of good stats from the breeding. I feel it would skew with a lot of player-to-player breeding. I'm....trying to figure out how to word how I feel about your suggestion. Hmm..... I think it's a good idea, but it would have to be toyed with a lot to make it even better (like my original post ideas :P). I think the caps you're giving are too low. A 10 stat cub only being able to achieve 100 stats? If it was a female and you hunted her the full 10 hunts every day and she gained 10 stats per day, she could reach her cap really quick. I feel it would also continue to encourage the feeling that low stat cubs are garbage. Cause, after all, they wouldn't be able to progress much higher than their current stats. More value would be placed on the higher cubs. I mean, that's always going to be how it is, but I feel it would widen the gap tremendously. If that made any sense at all >.< But feel free to respond! I'd love to work with you to figure out a good base idea to found this on. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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WitchWolf (#5939)
Deathlord of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2013-09-27 16:40:15 |
Well... It wouldn't really put new players off, I should say. Because when you first come to a game, what you're faced with are the rules that are there at that moment. So, you come along and see that's how stat progression goes... and say okay, that's how it goes. You don't have any experiance in how things used to be before that - you just dive into whatever's there. And since that would slow the stat progression for everyone, things might get evened out. But here, let me up the stakes even further: Not just to limit the max stats of low-end cubs, but also, higher the stats, slower the progress. So esentially, with a starter lion and an NCL, you could achieve 100-130 stat parents, max. Out of them, you cold get 130-170 stat cublets, tops. It raises up unil a certain point, obviously, but then you're hit with this: once your stats are up to and above, say, 500, the incerment decreases! So really, if you have a 1000 stat male and, say, a 2000 stat female, the best their cub could get to would be... say, 2010, or even 2005. Yes, you'd have to work your ass off to get the next gen that's just 5 stat points better than the previous one. That would slow down the mad stat increase by a lot. And it wouldn't be that hard to get up from 100 stat lions to, say, 500-600 stat lions. You could move fast at first, but very sluggishly at the top. As for colour genetics, Abbey has a post on that so maybe we better take discussion on that over there, lest this gets too cluttered up with trying to balance both topics t the same time. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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GamingGal (#18503)
Sapphic View Forum Posts Posted on 2013-09-28 12:37:30 |
Out of those two idea, I like the idea of slowing the stat gain the higher you go, but I'm still iffy about making it harder on the bottom end of things. I'd be more comfortable with it if the range was larger. Let's say you had a 10 stat cub. Instead of having it cap off at 100 stats, perhaps cap off at a number triple that, at 300 or so. That way, you still have a good amount of stats you can train for and it gives the cub more usage with the potential for higher stats....if that makes any sense whatsoever. I don't like the numbers your tossing out for the higher stat lions. I'm all for slowing down stat gain at the higher end. It makes sense, after all: the stronger someone is, the harder it is for them to become stronger. The same should apply here. However, gaining only 5-10 stats is a bit low. Maybe having a 100 stat max gain would be more? That way it's not too much, but not too little, either. Cause of something is too HARD to work for it discourages and annoys. Not to mention the idea probably is going to take some adjusting to IF it ever hits the market, so the easier it is to adjust, the better. I asked Clay if the stat formula is based off anything in particular and am waiting on an answer. If it isn't, I plan on messing with it. Regardless of all our ideas, that formula is what everything is based off of. We would have to rework it to reflect our ideas. What ideas do you have on color genetics? I'm fine with cluttering this thread a bit with them. Might as well have the ideas in the first post responded to here as well. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Kimakishi (#13351)
Amiable View Forum Posts Posted on 2013-10-14 12:02:57 |
No support. Having a stat cap on cubs completely defeats the purpose of making your lion(ess)es as good as you can before you breed them, and, if you're going for realism, it's only the super cubs or the lucky cubs that survive to adulthood and pass on their genes. Besides, the poorly-statted cubs don't get bought and eventually, their stats are either pulled into a decent range or their chased off. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Axel (#6627)
Pervert View Forum Posts Posted on 2014-03-14 19:17:56 |
Not sure about the stat cap, better dont implement them. But I do support a lower inheriting of stats. I say no to dominant and recessive genes in that fashion. Mainly because that would defeat the purpose of studding -someone hopes for a custom and breed their wild lioness to a custom male, pay the money and end up with a wild colored with which they cannot do anything at the moment, they would need double breeding if not triple to get a custom, that is a little too much work. And it would defeat the purpose of having custom male in your pride. If I have wild colored lionesses, and I customize my male for almost 20GB, then I expect the chance that the coat will be visible on my own cubs. With this suggestion the cubs would end up all wild colors, only carrying the custom trait... 0 players like this post! Like? |
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