Posted by Let Male Leopons Breed

JAX • 3.12.21
9/15 | 13/15 BO (#98288)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2018-02-05 03:56:04
So, recently I bought and Kinged a Leopon boy as a sort of 'final project and achievement' since I don't plan to be here terribly long afterwards after I breed and spread bone lace, bone inverted zebra, and make one final attempt to King a Sextafulv. Possibly to breed mandarin, so if you happen to breed a tigon, give me a tap on the shoulder friend ;)

Anyway, back to the suggestion. I noticed....my pon cannot breed. At all.

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From a realistic standpoint, I can see the justification of this I guess. Male hybrids are often sterile....however the females tend to be fertile. Take the Savannah cat for example. First generation males cannot breed, however once you get around the 5th, 4th, and sometimes even 3rd Generation of Males, fertility can and does return. These males can and do sire kittens. My particular Leopon is a 5th or 6th generation pon and falls well within this range, so if realism is an issue for you, consider that as an argument. Also consider that the way Lioden handles leopons isn't particular realistic either. The only felines who could produce a leopon are a pure blooded lioness and a pure-blooded leopard.. A leopon crossed with a lion would produce a li-leopon or a leopard would produce a leo-leopon, later a li-li-leopon and so on down the line with more and more convoluted names. It should be noted that male leopons have apparently successfully fathered cubs before with other hybrids (ligers to be exact), to produce the Leoliger. There does not appear to be a source for this claim however.

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So, you see, there is a factual basis for this implementation.

As for the actual Implementation, I have two propositions:

Simple Implementation


Leopons would operate just as any male would, however inverse of the Primal. That is to say, the females can breed their mutation and pass it along while males would exist and never be able to pass their mutation. A 'pon siring another 'pon would be entirely predicated on the female pon and would be no different than studding to any other male. They'd essential be NPMs (Non-passing Muties) and their mutation would be purely aesthetic. Still, wouldn't it be cool to have a pon as the father of your cubs? So that's one (and I suspect will be the most popular) way we could do it. Generation would not matter in this implementation. A first or 50th generation of pon would be able to breed.

Considering there is basis for leopon breeding in reality and Lioden isn't realistic itself, there's no real reason I or any other future pon Kings should be restricted from breeding.


Bolstering Implementation


Leopons would never pass their mutation with other, normal lions, however if another Leopon bred with them they could bolster the chances of that pon. Now before you start crying and hit the no support button, let me clarify.
- First and Second Gen Male Pons would never be able to breed.
- This would be restricted to later generation male leopons. 3rd Gen Leopons would have a 25% chance of being fertile, 4th Gens a 50% chance, 5th Gens a 75%, and 6th and onward a 100% fertility chance. Each fertility chance bolsters a leoponess differently:
* 3rd Gen Male Pons would bolster a female by 4%. 4th Gen Male Pons would only bolster by 3%, 5th Gens by 2%, and 6th Gens by 1%. I am not sure if FGPs should have their base 10% improved upon in this manner, but am interested in hearing what you all think.
- Pons would still be able to breed normally with other lions, and would still not pass their mutation. I'm not sure how to marry this and the Pon x Pon specific breeding, concerning bolstering and passing, but maybe an item could be available to non-fertile leopons in the Oasis, similar to a Vuka Vuka. This way users would not have to take an unnecessarily huge risk when kinging a pon who's earlier than 6th generation. Even if he turns out not to be compatible with other pons, they should still be able to breed him to their other lions. This item would not suddenly make them Pon x Pon bolstering compatible.
- Male Leopons would have Hybrid Vigor. Hybrid vigor occurs when the offspring of two species is physically fitter and healthier than either parent. Lions have an energy bar of 100%. Perhaps a Leopon King, in a Trade off for his low fertility, could have more energy to spare for other things. Alternatively the vigor could be breeding specific and not be affected by things like explore, sparring, ect.
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Pon/Pon specific breeding interface. Obviously, 'pon breeders will be interested in any stud who raises their base chance to breed a leopon. Reverse 'pon breeders will also be interested, so this is potentially another market that could be created. There could be a separate division on the "Studding Services" bit that allows Leopon Kings to set prices specifically for any female leopon choosing their services and trying to bolster their chances. Female Leopons would be required to choose this option and would not be allowed to stud normally like a lioness would. Leopon Studding would have a minimum price based on how many marks that particular Leopon has. For example: my boy has 10 marks. His base price would be 10gb per 'Pon studding. Considering Pon breeders could sell any potential Leopons for 50x times that much upon breeding them, I'd be willing to raise the minimum price to 2gb per mark instead of just 1gb.

A complaint I foresee this having is that it would potentially make pons "too common", but I disagree. The percentage bolstering is honestly not that large, plus there have only been two Leopon Kings in the entire history of the website-- Leviathan and more recently my own boy. Likely, because of the huge expense getting a cub/adol pon and the almost universal tendency for male pons to be sex changed into females for breeding, Leopon males will remain rare.


Of these methods, which would you prefer? Please tell me of any add ons or concerns you have below, but more importantly...

tumblr_inline_p3i3xlZf1J1ux0ccw_400.png

Let him breed!






This suggestion has 352 supports and 97 NO supports.



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Edited on 05/02/18 @ 14:55:55 by Jaxapon [LeoponSunsetKing] (#98288)

Fraekinn [FROZEN] (#57572)


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Posted on
2018-02-05 05:25:33
One question I have to ask, female leopons have an increased chance to pass on mottled rosette.

Would a male leopon's mottled pass rate be reduced or non existant in comparison to their female counterparts?

Mottled prices are already in the toilet, so i'm on the fence whether to support or not.



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JAX • 3.12.21
9/15 | 13/15 BO (#98288)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2018-02-05 05:37:33
I'm seeing male pons passing rosettes no more frequently than a male lion with rosettes.



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Fraekinn [FROZEN] (#57572)


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Posted on
2018-02-05 05:38:36
That works, support.



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kalliste |
heritageless (#51173)

Famous
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Posted on
2018-02-05 05:54:09
Supporting the first idea primarily, that male 'pons can't pass their mutation. The male leopon art is adorable, and if it has no way to devalue 'pons (as some may see it), I can't see a downside personally.



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Angela |Skyward
Queen| (#77401)


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Posted on
2018-02-05 09:06:24
No support, there's too many game breaking things being added here. Having male pons (whatever generation) be fertile but not pass the mutation or boost it would be reasonable. The rest, no.



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JAX • 3.12.21
9/15 | 13/15 BO (#98288)

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Posted on
2018-02-05 09:08:55
Alright, did you not look at the first option I proposed? There is a poll where you can vote, y'know.

Also elaborate on how these are "game breaking", I'm curious.



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Edited on 05/02/18 @ 09:10:37 by Jaxapon [LeoponSunsetKing] (#98288)

Shetani (#29416)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2018-02-05 09:12:03
The game is called Lioden, not Leoponden. The player character should always be a lion. No support.



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Ladwick (#12065)


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Posted on
2018-02-05 09:15:19
Support! I've wanted a pon king, I don't care if they can pass their mutation or not. I just want a pon king who won't be useless. x3

I think the simple option would be better. Cuz it's simple.
But I do like the other option too.



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Edited on 05/02/18 @ 09:20:13 by Ladwick ¹ (#12065)

Icey [G2 1k Tovero] (#38841)

Pervert
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Posted on
2018-02-05 09:22:34
@Shetani- Pons can already be king. They just can't breed, so it sort've invalidates your point? Or did you mean something else?

I like the first idea best, where they can breed but wont pass on the mutation. It's clean cut and simple. ^_^



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Edited on 05/02/18 @ 11:56:00 by Icey (#38841)

Angela |Skyward
Queen| (#77401)


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Posted on
2018-02-05 09:25:11
- Male Leopons would have Hybrid Vigor. Hybrid vigor occurs when the offspring of two species is physically fitter and healthier than either parent. Lions have an energy bar of 100%. Perhaps a Leopon King, in a Trade off for his low fertility, could have more energy to spare for other things. Alternatively the vigor could be breeding specific and not be affected by things like explore, sparring, ect. -

This is likely going to be, it would make the game much easier for leopon kings, in whatever aspect it affects. Lioden does penalties on mutations as a general rule, they don’t have any precedent for gameplay bonuses, unless you count primals and piebalds being able to pass their mutations along. Energy is a finite resource for everyone on the game, having some kings with higher energy reserves all the time would be a fairly game breaking, or at least unbalancing, feature. We have this with Hyperactive kings, to an extent, but it’s only an additional 30% per day
I suppose if they had a small energy boost like the Hyperactive personality kings that was useable once per day it would be more reasonable, and less likely to tip energy related things in favor of leopon kings entirely.

- 3rd Gen Male Pons would bolster a female by 4%. 4th Gen Male Pons would only bolster by 3%, 5th Gens by 2%, and 6th Gens by 1%. I am not sure if FGPs should have their base 10% improved upon in this manner, but am interested in hearing what you all think. -

Adding in any boost to the pass rate of mutations is going to drastically raise the amount of that mutation in the game. Primals hardly have a 5% chance of passing, and they’re everywhere because it’s a male passed mutation.
Even if it only boosted the female’s pass rate, there would be massive population booms. 1% is an enormous difference on the scale of lioden. For individual breeders it may not seem like much of a change but it would be for the whole of the game.

These are the two things I most take issue with, the bits of suggestion that are needed to implement these are not really relevant to my decision not to support the suggestion.



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🐾Lost🐾 (#99623)

Aztec Knight
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Posted on
2018-02-05 09:32:43
I support for sure.

Lioden is a realistic type game therefore whether it was a 10% or 1 million %. They still follow the laws of realism.



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JAX • 3.12.21
9/15 | 13/15 BO (#98288)

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Posted on
2018-02-05 11:00:59
Shetani, that argument makes zero sense. Besides, in the context of the game, it IS a lion. It just has a mutation.

Lol no it wouldn't. There are some kings with personalities that allow them more energy. Hyperactive is a popular one. Besides, the Vigor meter, like I said, could be restricted to breeding. If the Leopon King's fertility was being lowered, which I suggested ( " in a Trade off for his low fertility" ) then extra breeding energy would be warranted, as both his fert and the lionesses fert would roll and they'd both have to be green for a successful breeding to take place. Besides, you're assuming. I never said anything about HOW the vigor bar would operate. Maybe it refills hours, or daily. I never said.

No it isn't. Having a 4% increase isn't going to "drastically" affect anything, especially when FERTILE pons of those generations will be rare to begin with since most existing pons are well past the stage of 3rd gen and ones that are are frozen/dead/too old. The best you're going to get is 1% or even a 2% boost, which again, will drastically affect nothing. Also, this is only with LEOPON females, not all lionesses in general, so I'm not sure why you're bringing up primals. People breeding pons to a pon king would have to pay a hefty fine for that extra chance at 'Pon and then that extra chance really isn't all that much.



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MousseMori (#81680)

Toxic
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Posted on
2018-02-05 11:35:22
Support! I'd LOVE to have a breedable pon king whether he could pass on his mutation or not.



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Lilytargaryen
[online] (#92991)

Heartbreaker
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Posted on
2018-02-05 11:36:53
I think Pon Kings should be able to breed like any other King and not pass their mutation.



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Enitan [HM] (#18630)

Protector
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Posted on
2018-02-05 11:37:14
I support the first suggestion. Male leopon as "NPM" would work just fine, I think. No different than kinging most mutations (folded ears, achromia, etc.).



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