Posted by Congenital Analgesia (can't feel pain)
Cagamix (#447506)

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Posted on
2023-08-25 12:27:38
Title basically… Congenital analgesia is an extremely rare medical condition where the individual is born without the ability to feel physical pain. This puts them at extremely high risk of injuries and even death since their body is unable to tell them that it is harmed. Their injuries also tend to get worse because since they cannot feel pain they won't try to avoid situations that could worsen them. Sometimes they also cannot feel temperature either

In real life, a wild animal would probably die after a few weeks if not after a few days, even if they don’t get injured they could simply get an infection from chewing on their own body parts (this happened to a real person with this condition. Her parents had to removed her baby teeth because she wouldn’t stop chewing on her tongue. Since she was a baby they couldn’t just explain to her why she must stop doing this… I can’t imagine how things could have ended if she was never able to understand speech).
However, since lions in lioden can speak, I figured there could be a VERY mild chance (5% or less) than the cub manages to survive into adulthood. The other members of the pride could explain to the cub to not do this or that because it could be dangerous for them even if they don’t feel pain, once they realize they cannot feel it. Same for temperature . Although there would still be a very high chance the cub dies before adulthood for obvious reasons.

If the cub miraculously survives till adulthood, it would make sense that they cannot patrol nor hunt since they would be too at risk to severely injure themselves. They could also die randomly at any moment, because even if they are good at consciously avoiding external injuries, they would still be unaware of internal injuries.


To compensate for the lack of positives of this mutation, perhaps a lion who manages to not feel pain could have get a mega boost in once they reach adulthood (or adolescence?) since they would probably need a lot of them in order to learn how to avoid getting lethally injured without any pain to warn them. They would also give you scar decors randomly and much more often than other lions. Maybe they could also have a higher chance of getting mutated cubs?



Artwork: I imagine a lion with this mutation would have multiple injuries and scars on them, but the pose and expression are exactly the same as normal lions since they don’t feel pain.



Messages ideas:


First month: Your lioness notices that Cub is behaving oddly. Cub has been bleeding from the mouth and when she took a look, she realized that cub has been chewing on their own tongue. Their mom tries to explain that they shouldn’t be doing that, but they still try to keep chewing on their tongue when she isn’t looking.

Month 2: -NAME- tells you that Cub is starting to get isolated because they play too harshly with the other cubs. Curiously, Cub would never warn their playmates that they were playing too harshly aswell, which resulted in Cub receiving multiple injuries from them.

Month 3: Cub was laying right under the boiling sun, even long after everyone else left due to it being too hot there. Luckily their mom grabbed them before they could overheat.

Month 4: -NAME- excitingly tells you that she finally discovered why cub was behaving in such a self-destructive way: Cub had gotten a particularly big bruise earlier that day. She asked Cub if they felt any pain from it. Cub seemed confused and asked what pain was… turns out then Cub cannot feel pain! You both feel really dumb for not realizing it earlier.



Deaths idea: (they can happen randomly at any age, but I imagine some of them could be more likely to happen when they are still a cub)


-NAME- died from burns after falling asleep on a rock that has been warmed by the sun. The rock was so hot that it could burn a lion’s skin, but cub seemingly didn’t feel anything.

-NAME- died from getting too much injuries that kept worsening rather than heal

-NAME- died from an infection caused by multiple open wounds

-NAME- ran through a field of spiny plants after realizing than their broodmother would slow down in it due to the spines being too painful. When cub came back, they were more blood and open wounds than skin. They eventually passed away from their injuries.

-NAME- died from having two open fractures that got infected. Turns they had two broken limbs, but kept walking on them until the broken bones pierced through their skin. Their broodmother isn’t even sure how the cub got broken bones, all she can think about is that they probably played too harshly with the other cubs. Maybe pain isn’t such a bad thing after all…

-NAME- died of deshydratation. Their mom explains that they tried to stuff their mouth with food to transport more of it, but they stuffed it so much that the cub's cheeks ended up ripping. They couldn’t drink properly anymore because of the two big holes in their mouths.

-NAME- died of heatstroke after falling asleep under the basking sun.


Interactions ideas:


-NAME- is crying after learning than they will never hunt or patrol for their own safety. Looks like their ability to feel emotional pain isn’t affected.

While you are approaching, -NAME- asks you what pain is. You tell them than it's distressing, or difficult… you can’t explain it very well. -NAME- says than they believe they sort of understand what pain is now and confess that they have been feeling a lot of pain in their heart. You explain than what they are referring to is emotional pain, to which -NAME- responds by proudly announcing that they actually can feel pain.

While approaching -NAME-, you step on something thick. You first assume it to be a snake, but when you look at it you realize it’s Cub’s tail, they didn’t feel any pain so they didn’t react.

-NAME- has been bothering you all day. You prepare to smack them to teach them a lesson, but stop after remembering that it would be no use since They wouldn’t feel anything

-NAME- is taking a nap. You notice they are chewing on their tongue in their sleep. You decide to wake them up since that’s pretty much the only thing you can do




If you have any suggestions feel free to tell me about them!


Edit: Update based on the suggestions people made

It seems like most people think than even 5% chanches or lower is too high. The solution could be than the cub either has no chanches of surviving past cubhood, or maybe I could make the odds of survival no higher than 3% and they will drop to 0% if they don't have a broodmother.

If the cub is one of the 3% that makes it to 1 year old, they will still die randomly between 1 years old and 4 years old. They also cannot hunt nor patrol. However they have an higher chanche of producing mutated cubs. What do you think?



This suggestion has 51 supports and 32 NO supports.



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Edited on 28/08/23 @ 08:05:19 by Cagamix (#447506)

Corruptedhyena (#243378)


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Posted on
2023-08-25 12:31:31
Gonna go in the same order you went in to avoid confusion,


I disagree with this cub surviving at all, small chance or not. Even if a lion were to tell them such, they wouldn't be able to avoid injuries when hunting or moving. They would most defiantely die.

I also strongly disagree with any boost in stats or anything. There would be no bonuses to a lion who cant avoid injury since they cant feel it.

I also dont agree with adding the mutation at all if they dont have significantly special lines. For me, personally, extra scars isnt enough for me.

Because of the reasons above, no support. Sorry



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Foxheart she/her
🩷💛💙 (#309711)

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Posted on
2023-08-25 13:16:31
I think this is a great idea, but I don't think it should have any chance if surviving either. It'd definetly die at a young age. I think it could be a lethal though.

Second, which is my main argument, I also think it should have different lineart. Just adding some scars or bruises wouldn't be enough. And considering it probably wouldn't make it over cub stage, it could be based off the lineart of a cub. Maybe also adding like, bones showing, or something like that as well.

Adding to what I have stated, the lion wouldn't gain a stat boost, as it wouldn't make it to an adult, or probably even adolescence.

Considering these, it's a no support, sorry!



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Edited on 25/08/23 @ 14:01:22 by Foxheart she/her 🩷💛💙 (#309711)

Cagamix (#447506)

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Posted on
2023-08-25 13:22:14
Ok, thanks for your suggestions



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Readytest (#431796)

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Posted on
2023-08-25 13:29:04
Support, this is a real mutation and COULD happen in anyone.

Maybe make it adol semi-lethal, maybe the lion should have a broodmother assigned to them at ALL TIMES, even as an adult.

About that unable to patrol or hunt thingy, maybe a chance where they could sneak out sometimes and join your current hunting/patrolling session, and you'd only know it before they return through their own pregnant tab ( Idk what to call it ) where if you haven't nested the lioness it will show up as "hunting"

Nested lionesses can't go hunting so this mut shouldn't either; I was thinking about making the other muts that can't hunt/patrol/be kinged be able to by chance. ( Maybe add a personality that increases or allows this chance? )

I think they should be kinged, though, BUT the player should be warned that doing so would make the game more challenging AND make the king's reign a bit shorter ( that is if the player does explore ) so they aren't feeling the game's unfair when their king dies from something earlier than the other kings.

Instead of normal kinging when you pick a male with this mut, it should be a double check box.

1st check: Warning; kinging this lion with this mutation WILL make exploration and such challenging, your lion could get an infection from a lioness' slap, your king could die from losing a certain amount of battles within one rollover, and your king's reign will not be as long as other kings, are you sure this is what you want? "

Second check would be the same as before, and then after checking "yes" it will make this male your king.



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#1 Mel fan | -4r1-.
he-him. (#378108)


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Posted on
2023-08-25 13:59:31
i feel like this a good idea! but like other people have said, this cub wouldn't survive. it is a good lethal idea though!



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Readytest (#431796)

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Posted on
2023-08-25 14:00:53
I think it's better as a semi-lethal, imagine -- Shamans could heal wounds of these cubs with this mut, and broodmotheds could keep a very special eye on them at all times, even when they are adols or adults.



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Readytest (#431796)

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Posted on
2023-08-25 14:03:05
Plus, the broodmother keeping care of these lions could kinda act as how pupsitters act in Wolvden -- the broodmothers only give a boost to the lion's survival rate, the rest is up to you to feed/play with them -- OR to give them a hornbill to boost their survival up to 100%.



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Cagamix (#447506)

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Posted on
2023-08-25 14:16:25
@Readytest I like the idea of having a broodmother for them at all times even in adulthood. I disagree with males with this mutation being able to kinged, not only the odds of death would be too high. The explore thing might be too complicated, same for them joining a hunt or patrol unknowingly



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Foxheart she/her
🩷💛💙 (#309711)

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Posted on
2023-08-25 14:19:21
For the exploring, we have to think about it. They'd have to add so much coding on just one explore encounter, let alone hundreds. And I'm not even onto event explore encounters yet.



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Readytest (#431796)

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Posted on
2023-08-25 14:26:08
I don't think any mutations shouldn't be able to be kinged, it seems kinda ableist and in poor taste to me

Plus, I like having challenges based on what lion you king, kinda like Rouge Lineage



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Foxheart she/her
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Posted on
2023-08-25 14:31:09
I'm just talking about the coding in general, it would take the devs a very long time to do just a few.



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Readytest (#431796)

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Posted on
2023-08-25 14:34:30
Yeah, but I think it'd be worth it, since people like me would really like am extra challenge that is possible within the game ( so no liolocke like challenges ), in vanilla game, and can be achieved within making a individual lion a king.



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Foxheart she/her
🩷💛💙 (#309711)

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Posted on
2023-08-25 14:38:16
But it would be a rare mutation right? Barely occurring? So they'd be coding EVERY explore encounter for a **possible** king of that mutation, which likely won't even grow into adulthood?



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🤎 leon | semi
hiatus (#208511)


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Posted on
2023-08-25 14:44:25
yeah, no support for all listed things, sorry. the art load for any new pose or new-lineart mutation is so heavy that i only want them spending time on things that are very unique.

about comments i've seen too—i'm disabled myself. not differently abled, i am disabled. there are just things that we cannot do sometimes, and being leader of a pride would be super extensive for such a disabled cub that probably wouldn't make it. lioden keeps its mutations mostly realistic, and i appreciate it that way. there are only a few things i'd want changed.

if you can't feel pain, it's really hard to learn safety things since there's not really any unpleasant sensory to sink in the lesson. like if you couldn't feel pain and you touched a hot stove, you wouldn't reflexively know not to touch it, and broodmothers can't keep a 24/7 eye all the time. something quite bad would happen.



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Foxheart she/her
🩷💛💙 (#309711)

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Posted on
2023-08-25 14:57:54
Perhaps it could be a full lethal, but if people are still hanging onto it not being a full lethal, I'd do a specific lineart, and I would make it be nit able to be kinged, like Clawless and Toothless.



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