Posted by co-leading males rare occurance!

sburbplayer
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Posted on
2015-01-18 01:16:52
Sometimes (very rarely) in the wild two lions co-lead. Sound far-fetched? I didn't believe until I watched documentary about it.

There are two different times when this happens very briefly during a coalition or a longer bond between two brothers.

A coalition happens when males without a pride work together for a common goal. I see no real way this can be implemented into the game other than roleplay.

A bond between two brothers could be implemented easier though. In the documentary I watched, the two lions were chased from their pride once they reached age. They then worked together and claimed a pride. They had small spats, but never tried to push the other from position. Unfortunately one of the two didn't make it out of a battle.

If this is implemented, it'd have to be a rare occurannce and there's have to be certain requirements such as:

The two males must be brothers (from the same male not female)
They can only take their fathers position together. (You can't trade them and have them take over. An unrelated kings pride)
If they try to take over an unrelated kings pride, only one will be king.
OR
The males could be similar in stats and age and take over any males pride
OR
Identical twins (as suggested by Miss Whispermouse) could be a rare occurance like (not an actual) mutation. If one is chosen to lead the pride, the other will/might follow.

As dual-Kings they can both be studded, impregnate females, and chase/kill lions, battle, and anything a previous lion could do.

Dual battles is out of the question for right now. It'd make this a lot harder to code. There's a thread already about bringing a lion/lioness into battle here -> http://www.lioden.com/topic.php?id=285884430000 Without its approval it's unlikely to have the dual-Kings fight alongside eachother. As of now, you'd simply be given a choice of which lion to battle.

I will link the documentary as sound as I find it again!

Feel free to leave any questions comments or concerns!

current cons:
-could hurt economy
-sub male breeding has been rejected many times

current pros:
-more realistic atmosphere
-more variety
-very flexible idea

suggestions:
"I think studding is what's causing the issue here, so what if you can only stud out one king to the public? But then you can have two lions to make babies with in your den but only earn sb from one of them? " ~Tasha

"Maybe it would work better if it went something like: any breeding attempts to your own lionesses and any stud requests are sent to /both/ kings, and its basically a dice roll which one impregnates the female? Or if she has multiple cubs, some could be sired by one king, and another by the other. If that makes sense? Basically the idea being that both males breed with her, and its random who's "stuff" ends up making the babies." ~Miss Whispermouse

"Or, another possible solution, its bred like a mutation, only its "twins" and they have identical markings/stats and only they can take over a pride together? So its still super rare, and there's not really an advantage because they'd be identical in every way. Any customization would happen to both of them so they stayed identical?" ~Miss Whispermouse (good idea! Identical twins!)



This suggestion has 47 supports and 0 NO supports.



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Edited on 18/01/15 by sburbplayer (#53095)

Cat (#5265)

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Posted on
2015-01-18 01:21:12
Sub-males are not co-leaders.

Subordinate male. He is submissive heir to the throne, not meant to lead, breed, or be noticed until his time.



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sburbplayer
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Posted on
2015-01-18 01:44:35
I mean the two lead together after the previous king has passed. This does happen in real life as I stated about the documentary. Both lions were in fact kings. One was not a subordinate male, which by the way almost never happens in reality. I'm not suggesting that submales can breed or fight. I'm suggesting that two brothers can take over together once the past king dies then they can do these things



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Edited on 18/01/15 by sburbplayer (#53095)

Shenanigans (#52550)

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Posted on
2015-01-18 01:46:37
Two brothers leading isn't exactly that uncommon. I've also heard of the occasional three lions, however one of them is always dominant and gets to breed more. It's basically like the subordinate male thing we have going on already.

I'm gonna have to go with no support on this one.



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Ciril {Inferno|3x
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Posted on
2015-01-18 01:49:33
Well this does actually happen in real life. One is more dominant as said above, but they do lead together and protect one another. Both breed, but one breeds more. I think it'd be interesting to see this in Lioden.

As for support, I think this SHOULD be supported, why? Because not only do our submales not breed at all, but they're pretty much useless until the old king is dead or to stat replace. This is a massive suggestion when you think about it. People on this game whine about realism all the time, I see suggestions turned down even when we have purple and red lions in this game lol.

Let's see what the people who want realism think about this, because this IS realistic.

Edit: That said, I think people should consider this before just blowing it off and saying "No support" like they always do.
Also, there should be a lot more info about this, such as if the second male would be able to explore. It would be very interesting.



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Edited on 18/01/15 by Aziell [TVV][CT][VV][BBTW] (#38439)

Cat (#5265)

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Posted on
2015-01-18 01:51:18
LioDen does not have a mechanic for siblings, and is intended to simulate the majority of lion prides[at least to my understanding of it] which only have one leader. We didn't have subordinate males, but then everyone's king died without a proper heir to take over[because males were chased at age 2 back then regardless and timing had to be perfect] so it was implemented to put players at ease.

What percentage of people do you think will specifically breed until they get two males from the same king to dual-take over?

How do you think the economy will be affected when no one buys to retire or buys males in general[because the must be your kings descendants] when they can have not one, not two, but four kings ruling including a side account?

How long will it take for everyone to complain about other males siring cubs being 'brothers' and taking over?

What happens when both your Kings sire at least two sons? Does one pair take over, or the other or a mix?



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mau | g1 6k frontal
3ros cel (#32469)

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Posted on
2015-01-18 01:53:10
No support, I agree with Cat, not to mention the idea of Submales breeding and/or leading has been completely rejected by staff on numerous occasions.



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Ciril {Inferno|3x
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Posted on
2015-01-18 01:54:40
@Cat
I think it would be wise for people to be able to choose whether they would even want to have a pair leading their pride. That would solve a few issues. I think that people should also be able to choose which male sires their cubs instead of both.

I think it'd be easier to avoid the issue of which pair takes over by having you either choose another two lions YOURSELF. Males would still be valuable, in fact, their value would rise I think because of this.



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Ciril {Inferno|3x
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Posted on
2015-01-18 01:57:16
@Maulise
But maybe it shouldn't be rejected so lightly if it's something that even happens in real life. This game has slowly been building and building but the economy is kind of eh right now.

Maybe if you converse about it more and not just shut it down right off the bat something could be changed and suggested that people would agree with more.

If people just stopped suggesting things that could be turned down just because they were turned down in the past, nothing would be happening today in real life over here in America. It doesn't hurt haha.

Edit: Sorry doubly post~



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Edited on 18/01/15 by Aziell [TVV][CT][VV][BBTW] (#38439)

Roukera (#29488)

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Posted on
2015-01-18 01:59:21
Support. We really DO need more realism, and it would solve some problems.



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sburbplayer
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Posted on
2015-01-18 01:59:25
I agree aziel. I find co-leading males more realistic than the system we have now. To deal with one having more dominance maybe lionesses are more likely to be impregnated by him than the other lion/s. And before its brought up I'd like to say that there wouldn't be seperate energy bars only level and imp, so it's fair to players with only one king.



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Cat (#5265)

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Posted on
2015-01-18 01:59:26
Aziell@ you have a choice between a single king, which you can stud out. Or two kings, which you can both stud out. You can customize before they take over making them have a variety of markings pretty much allowing two diversified kings, not counting the fact that cubs born are usually pretty diverse anyways. Now add two more, because you likely have a side account. Would you bother to stud out often when you have four free breeding options right there? When you did stud out, other users would also likely have the same situation.

Choosing another two cubs myself? Aren't they supposed to be brothers? Isn't that what this idea is about[sorry, you've lost me not trying to be a dick I swear by it D:]

I disagree that male value would rise, since to have two kings they need to be sired by the same lion, and buying two males as a pack or finding two sired by the same male might have a negative affect.



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sburbplayer
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Posted on
2015-01-18 02:05:12
Cat, I see what you're saying as well. Maybe they wouldn't have to be brothers but similar in stats and/or age. It could start a new trend of trading. Instead of looking for high stats, people can be looking for similar stats instead. It could also start people wanting lions of a certain age which could encourage breeders to keep breeding.



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Edited on 18/01/15 by sburbplayer (#53095)

Ciril {Inferno|3x
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Posted on
2015-01-18 02:05:30
@sburbplayer
Yeah, that's true. If it's delved in deeper some issues could be rooted out.

@Cat
Well say your single male breeds two lionesses pretty much around the same time, one pops out one cub and the other pops out two. Since the three cubs are all siblings, maybe you should be able to chose two if they're even from different mothers but sired by the king.

Also, a lot of stuff COULD have a negative effect on the economy, maybe talking about this more we could figure out if it possibly could. There are pros and cons to everything.

I actually don't have a side account haha. But having a choice as to which lion would stud the lioness is still in your hands. IF you have a side account, which still, not everyone has that is. To be honest, maybe it would give new players a bit more of an option seeing as people pay money to stud out, they could maybe stud to their own king(s) a tad more.



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Cat (#5265)

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Posted on
2015-01-18 02:15:03
sburbplayer@ Guuurl you gotta pick or else I don't know what we're talking about. Are you going to restrict this very controversial idea to a lions kin, or to a restrictive criteria? Either way it narrows it down to a field where people will complain until it broadens either way unfortunately, if it was implemented.

Aziell@ in my own smexy Cat opinion, adding MORE breeding options in the game is not the way to go to encourage a good economy. As for side accounts, very true not every player has one, but many, many do. it would encourage players to get side accounts as well which would increase the amount we get, likely. The game is not about breeding. Breeding is important to the game, and it is not a stretch to call it vital to the game, but it is not the purpose. Newbies don't need three to four kings for breeding, the fugly start male is there to help them begin the game and get introduced to its other major parts, as fighting, imp, ect.



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mau | g1 6k frontal
3ros cel (#32469)

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Posted on
2015-01-18 02:15:09
It is the way it is because the cub market would be even more horrendous. Two males means twice the cubs and much less incentive to stud out or buy other people's cubs, not to mention the lost early retirement revenue for the site.



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