Posted by Making Sub Males More Useful [3300+ Support]

[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2017-12-13 11:26:03
[ Support My Other Suggestions? ]

Let's Revisit Grandpaws: A Much-Needed Fix
Alter Stat Change to Giving Tree Cubs
Change 'Dust' Eye Applicator Term to 'Fragments'
New Event Title Ideas!
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✪ Summary:

Currently, Sub Males have very limited uses. They can be kept as Heirs. They can patrol and bring back stats and occasionally an item. And that's it really. So currently, there's really only one reason to keep a Sub Male: As an Heir you're training up. Anything else is just another mouth to feed and takes up a slot you likely don't need.

So how about we add some ways for them to be more useful?

✪ What I Am Proposing:

I thought it'd be neat if we could add additional little things Sub Males can do to be more directly beneficial to keep. Here's some ideas!

Sending them out to "Rough Up", "Seek Council" or "Stand Guard". This would be an action which is on a cool down. 1 hour cooldown, independent of normal patrol cooldown.

"Rough Up" would:
-----✧ Give flavor text about beating up local hyenas, a rival lion, or terrorizing local animals or humans.
-----✧ Give Evil Karma; A randomized amount between -1 and -5.
-----✧ Give either a randomized amount of EXP scaled to your King's Level OR a random amount of SB between 25 and 100.

"Seek Council" would:
-----✧ Give flavor text about meeting with other prides, speaking with Sangoma, or seeking council with Lion Shamans.
-----✧ Give Good Karma; A randomized amount between 1 and 5.
-----✧ Give either a randomized amount of EXP scaled to your King's Level OR a random amount of SB between 25 and 100.

"Stand Guard" would:
-----✧ Give flavor text about standing guard near the edges of your territory and whether they defended it or it was boring, or there was an interesting encounter.
-----✧ Give No Karma.
-----✧ Give either a randomized amount of EXP scaled to your King's Level OR a random amount of SB between 25 and 100.

Sending them out to "Gather Supplies". This would be an action which is on a cool down. 1 hour cooldown, independent of normal patrol cooldown.

"Gathering Supplies" would:
-----✧ Have a large chance of finding a random, common item (food or toy).
-----✧ Have a moderate chance of finding a random, common junk (there's an extensive list).
-----✧ Have a small chance of finding a common decor (Moonlight, Skull Decors, Feather Decors, etc.)
-----✧ Have a rare chance of finding a rare but not event exclusive decor (Up to Admins)
-----✧ Have a very rare chance of finding a stat item of any type (food or toy)

HOWEVER...
There will also be a chance (probably like 25% I would say) that your sub male brings nothing back at all. This is input suggested by Rhodalite (#123309) and I feel it makes a lot of sense! Similar to a Patrol where nothing is gained, or a hunt where your females bring back nothing (or a leg, like what the fuck, girls, there's five of you, c'mon), sometimes they just won't bring anything back and won't earn any SB. Maybe the locals kicked their ass? Who knows! Your king would still get EXP and karma, however.

You would likely be able to do only one of these two options at a time, to avoid making it too easy to gain things, but this is up to the Admins. I'd also recommend that you be able to both patrol and do one of these, since realistically, your lion could very well patrol while on his way to do these things. But you could also have two different Sub Males do these things, so you can patrol your Heir for stats and still make use of your other males!

Per aloiria [2.2K g1 uneven] (#168423)'s suggestion: Similar to patrolling submales, if a submale does any of these activities, it will render them unable to be sex changed into a female.

In addition to all of this, at the suggestion of 🌈Eli (#84653), I am proposing an actual use for the experience bar on Sub Males!

➤ When being sent to Gather Supplies, Rough Up, Seek Council, or Stand Guard, a Sub Male would gain experience the same as females sent out on a hunt.

✧ A Sub Male would level up at the same rate as adult female lionesses, in the same way as females (no stat gain from levels).
-----✧ At higher levels, a Sub Male would have a better chance of finding less common items.
-----✧ At higher levels, a Sub Male would have a better chance of finding more items at once. I propose no more than three, with each item's rarity being rolled individually of one another. This means that finding one rare item but finding more than one does not mean all of them will be rare items, but rather one. The chances of finding multiple rare items at once would be very low.

If a sub male fails to bring anything back, he will still get experience, but I would suggest it be a much lower amount.

With daily type deals such as hunting and patrolling, we feel it is also important that there are reminder notifications. KiwiBerb (#140009) has reminded me of this, and I'm adding it.

➤ In order to prevent a flood of spam in regards to different types of notices regarding these activities, perhaps it might be good to 'stack' them. In this way, if a male is back from patrol, but ALSO a male has returned from, say, gathering supplies, it would display a notification for both at once, otherwise, it will display one or the other. Streamlining the player's experience is important! ... As is not getting buried under too many stacked notices!

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DISCUSSION TOPIC FOR FEEDBACK:
How would you guys feel about limiting it to 10 times a day with 10 SB per extra option, same as lionesses with hunts? Anyone wanna weigh in?
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POTENTIAL IDEA CONSIDERATION:
Submitted by Rae (#148083) :: A VERY small chance that you receive the message "SubMale was unsuccessful. He fell asleep during his patrol and bugs climbed in his mane!" or similar. You would receive 1-3 of the beetles for ANY months event (regardless of what month we are in) but ONLY the beetle currency and nothing else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------✧

If you have ideas for other things that could make Sub Males more useful, please let me know in the comments and I'll review it and talk about it with you, maybe even add it!

If you don't support, I'd like to know why. I appreciate constructive criticism over a simple "no".



This suggestion has 3353 supports and 13 NO supports.



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Edited on 06/03/24 @ 23:49:09 by [♰] Yharnam (#112370)

Vetiver [Main] (#174295)


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Posted on
2019-10-16 16:10:31
I absolutely love this, it's frustrating to have sub male slots that I can't use for anything - and to have good cubs go to waste because I can't afford to sex change them all, and uses for males are so limited outside of kings. I think you've balanced the system well, also - there's simple small benefits and an easily timed system, making it rewarding but not overwhelming.

If the level-up feature was included, I could see some people being concerned, as the sub male being used as an Heir would get a bit messed up. Considering you begin as level 1 as a king, I could see it causing a male to be un-kingable if he'd been leveled up, or else it could throw errors. To prevent this, I'd suggest having a feature to opt a lion in or out of these specialized actions, similar to how you assign a lioness the 'hunter' role to opt in to hunts; this could prevent costly wastes of exclusive marking/base males that are intended as Heirs if a player accidentally sent the wrong lion out on a Rough Up/Council quest.

As a secondary suggestion, perhaps the positive karma action could be named something along the lines of 'Peacekeeping,' to be the kinder equivalent to Rough Up. It also doesn't imply your sub male has ambassador authority, which I think would be up to each player's personal lore headcanons.

Just an idea that simmered!! Either way, full support for this suggestion.



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[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2019-10-16 18:44:48
aspen • clean stellar (#174295) :: Technically you can actually level up a sub male now, though it can only be accomplished through use of things like giant tortoise shells. On closer investigation of this a while back, I was informed that upon kinging, it resets to zero. So the function is there, just useless. This would make it useful, but more easily done and retain the reset on kinging. I think this part probably wouldn't be a big issue if what I've been told by the admins is correct. Admittedly, I've never seen someone level an heir prior to kinging.

As per the Seek Council, such a phrase was chosen largely to follow the pattern of "Rough Up" and "Stand Guard". Human brains like symmetry in things, we find it satisfying. So seeing it on the drop down list is less visually jarring. I admit it's not much deeper than that, haha. But if you have a two part alternative like that, I'd be happy to include it.

I appreciate the support so much! Thank you, Aspen. ^^ ♥



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Vetiver [Main] (#174295)


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Posted on
2019-10-16 18:58:13
@Jensen - that's good to know! I wasn't aware of the reset mechanic upon kinging, so it worried me - though I'm curious if all stats reset to their level 1 form, vs only resetting the actual level and keeping the level up gains. Such will be very important if this gets implemented.

Hmm, you have a good point. I'll think about this - for now, the only two part alternatives I'm immediately thinking of are Look After or Check Neighbors, which don't have the right mood to them.

Very welcome!! I do hope to see this suggestion taken to heart on-site! ♥



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[△] Nadir (#108458)

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Posted on
2019-10-16 19:03:06
aspen • clean stellar (#174295) :: From what I understand, level gain in males is similar to female level gain, where the level going up doesn't give stats. In females, it makes them better at hunting and decreases the likelihood of a failed hunt, so you get to the point where when they're level 15+ the chances of a failed hunt are nearly zero. That's sort of the idea behind the sub male levels: not giving stats, but decreasing the chances of them failing their task.

Yeah it's a difficult one to find something that sounds correct. u _u I appreciate you valuing people having a roleplay interpretation of things. Definitely opened to something if you think of an alternative with the correct feel. I hope so too. It would be nice to see the sub males getting love. ♥



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Vael (#59195)

Evil
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Posted on
2019-10-16 19:20:40
I very much like this idea for subs! I'm pretty big on crafting so getting a few extra materials or bobs to sell would be pretty helpful.

My only issue is having multiple sub males doing something at the same time; since we now have unlimited slots for submales (I know there are some users who somehow manage to shuck out the money for them), it would be a little cheaty to have multiple subs bringing things back, whether they succeed or not. If it were possible to send out a few males, I think it would only be fair that they return with things at an even greater failure rate. But I'd rather stick to original idea that subs can only be sent out one at a time per hour, whether to patrol or guard and what else and bring items back at the rate you suggested.

Other than that, I will support! Whenever I'm not doing stat projects, I would enjoy having a submale do other things for me over just sitting there looking pretty.



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Vetiver [Main] (#174295)


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Posted on
2019-10-16 19:31:09
@Jensen - I'm learning all sorts of helpful things about core site mechanics I hadn't realized, thanks for teaching me about that! And honestly, if that's all the level increment is used for, then I'd worry about it much less.

I think people each get their own unique experiences out of playing games like this - some for the collection aspect, others for breeding certain rare combos, others just socializing, and others make entire worlds and lore for their prides. Leaving room for everyone to keep enjoying those unique ways is a good thing to consider when implementing features, but it shouldn't overtake function, of course.

@Vael - I think you also make a good point, though it could be argued that the incredibly high price of extra sub slots would be pre-paying for the advantage of having items brought in. Maybe, like hunting lionesses, a max amount could be implemented instead, to limit how many males can be going at once and then each male has a limited amount per day. This way exploits could be limited without lowering the encounter odds themselves, which could lead to people getting frustrated at the number of fails.



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Vael (#59195)

Evil
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Posted on
2019-10-16 19:41:57
@aspen
That does make sense, considering submale slots are pretty expensive, I think this idea would be fair. It hadn't crossed my mind about limiting males like the game does for our hunting lionesses and having a cap for them. XD
Now I'm a little more convinced.



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[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2019-10-16 19:44:41
Vael {DHS}|Sunset Felis (#59195) :: I think the cap for 2 at a time would be fair? You can have one lion Patrolling and one lion doing one of these other things, that way Patrolling your Heir doesn't get in the way of your item gathering, and item gathering doesn't get in the way of your Heir Statting. But that it's not possible to have two lions doing the item gathering at the same time, or Patrolling at the same thing. If that makes sense?

aspen • clean stellar (#174295) :: No problem at all. ^^ I try to help spread weird obscure knowledge because I ask weird obscure questions - like the male levels. I definitely could understand your worry if it was how you thought it was, so it's valuable to ask those things.

You're right. And I love the capacity to add things which provide open interpretation and options. When at all possible to implement a flexible function which stays true to its original concept, I love working around it.

I'll update the main post to include the hard cap of "1 Patrolling Action" and "1 Gathering OR XP Action" at a time if that sounds fair. It's been a while since I got some feedback on this. Thank you both.



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Edited on 16/10/19 @ 19:45:23 by [△] Jensen (#108458)

[△] Nadir (#108458)

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Posted on
2019-10-20 16:55:43
I went back to review it and turns out the hard cap of one patrolling action and one gathering or XP action is already in the main post.

For reference:
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Edited on 20/10/19 @ 16:56:57 by [△] Jensen (#108458)

[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2020-01-14 18:11:23
New Year, still pushing. We're at 2,200 supports. It's been two years. Hopefully we hear something soon.



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Edited on 14/01/20 @ 18:11:41 by [△] Jensen (#108458)

Apollo Poo for Poo (#174775)


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Posted on
2020-04-07 10:46:55
Why isn't this added already?! This is a great suggestion!



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[△] Nadir (#108458)

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Posted on
2020-04-07 12:49:01
Glad you like it so much, Apollo ^^ thank you



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Evil [2k G2
Decennial Primal] (#199651)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2020-05-01 00:53:54
Probably not realistic to actual lion prides, but I'd love the option to breed them



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Ezgati~Crazy Panther
Lady~🐆 (#28391)

Protector
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Posted on
2020-05-01 01:17:32
@Sammiie- please, check rejected suggestion thred. Breedable submales will break the game.



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[△] Nadir (#108458)

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Posted on
2020-05-01 09:00:43
Yeah it's been rejected before. The purpose of this suggestion was to find a way to both make submales beneficial to keep, but not take the same route others have taken before. ^^



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