-LOCKED - A Statement About Moderating
Posted on 2019-02-21 12:54:31
Hi all, Abbey here on behalf of the admin and moderating teams.

We'd like to announce right now that in the coming weeks we are planning on removing moderator badges across the entire site. We are not demoting moderators or getting rid of any systems, we are just removing the badge from visible areas next to player names. We hope that this will make the game a better place to be for both players and moderators, and hope that moderators and players can have a less tense relationship with one another.

Addressing Moderating Concerns


We would like to take this opportunity to address some concerns that players have raised with regards to the moderating system.

The anonymity of moderators within the modbox has now been in effect for over a year and over this time we have seen that this system has worked very well from behind the scenes. However, we do acknowledge that there has been some scepticism from various members over how this system actually works.

So for the sake of transparency and clarification, we'd like to give some insight to our moderating practices and how the system works for moderators and admins versus members.

Firstly, a PSA:
Moderators and admins are two very different roles on the site.

Admins are the group of staff who handle the game's functionality and features. They each have different roles, but they talk with each other on a daily basis about various things regarding running the game. Admins decide when rules should change, when changes to the game should be made, they are responsible for the coding and artwork coordination, and general behind-the-scenes stuff. The community admins work daily with the moderators whereas the non-community admins do not.

Moderators are volunteer members of the team who help us handle rule-breaking members. They are sometimes asked for input on various changes to how we moderate, rule changes, but ultimately have no control over the main parts of the game. They do not have the ability to change event bars, or add items to shops, or anything like that. Moderators are purely for moderating the forums, chat and players as a whole. They enforce the rules, and have no ability to edit the game in any way.

Anonymous Moderators
On the front-end of the modbox, we changed it so that members could no longer see specifically which moderator was handling their ticket.

This change was made primarily to cease some of the targeting that staff were seeing from members after having a decision made on their ticket that the member disagreed with. Additionally, if a moderator took some time to respond, they would sometimes start receiving PMs.

A lesser-known reason for why we changed the modbox to only show "Moderating Team" is because we felt as though it was dishonest of us to claim that one single person handled a ticket. This sometimes turned into a moderator being disliked because they were viewed as being the sole person who made a decision that someone didn't like, when in fact that decision likely had the input and support of multiple moderators and an admin.

Additionally, ANY response from a specific admin came with the support and input of every single member on the admin team, regardless of who actually claimed and handled that ticket.

Why do tickets take so long sometimes?
Firstly, the vast majority of tickets have at least a second opinion from another moderator or an admin. Moderators do not moderate and make decisions alone as a rule. Those that take longer to resolve often have the input of a large portion of the moderating team and sometimes multiple admins. This takes time for everyone to have a discussion, give their input, and ultimately come to a decision on what to do.

Just like players, moderators act under a specific ruleset, they are under constant supervision of admins and other moderators. Moderators have never banned a user for no reason - we always act on information or reports. If we believe we have made a mistake in our decisions, we will try to correct it and inform the player involved.

Why did X get punished, but Y didn't? Why did Z get banned for doing nothing?
Because we don't discuss player punishments publicly, the only time any information about reprimands comes out is from the player themselves. Sometimes a player disagrees with a decision we have made and will tell friends that they got a raw deal.

This is fine, we appreciate that everyone takes away a different account of what happened, but please be aware that there is always more to the story.

Additionally, if one player was punished for something but another player wasn't - we ask you to please trust that we handle all reports of rule-breaking behaviour fairly according to our terms of service and code of conduct. It is possible that they have received punishment, perhaps not the same as you because there were a different set of circumstances surrounding the event, or for a variety of other reasons.

If you witness a user breaking the rules, then we strongly advise you to report that behaviour to us. We rely very heavily on reports of rule-breaking behaviour - we encourage members to report anonymously when they come across this on the site.

Why don't you discuss player punishments publicly?
Logs of player punishments actually fall under "personal data" as of the GDPR of May 2018 so we legally cannot disclose any information about player punishment with other members.

We have always had this rule in place, however, so that is not the full reason. We dislike bringing up player punishments due to the subjectivity of what has happened to cause the punishment. Moderators have to rule on varying degrees of the same rule.

For instance, what exactly constitutes scamming? How can we tell this was a definite scam? Where do we draw the line on what is a scam and what is just a promise transaction that never went through due to various reasons? What effect does this scam have on the victims, and the economy as a whole?

Additionally, we prioritise the maintenance of a user's privacy - nobody should be privy to what happens as the result of a ticket other than the moderating team and that user.

We heard you don't use off-site evidence but there have been some times you have used it?
We don't use off-site evidence as a general rule because it is very easy to fake screenshots, or impersonate someone when we don't have the back-end information that Lioden provides to us. If there is concrete evidence that this person has definitely done something offsite (e.g. is selling Lioden items/lions for real money) and we can verify it on Lioden then we will happily take off-site evidence into account.

Moderating - moving forward
We want to continue being a great team who works together to moderate Lioden. We hope that removing the moderator paws from moderators will allow them to play the game normally, as a real member. They have been forced into the spotlight since day one and we'd like to offer them the opportunity to sit back and enjoy the game as a member once more.

However, this doesn't mean there are no longer mods. We will be ensuring that we keep a team fully stocked and raring to go so that any reports and tickets created by members are handled promptly and fairly.

We would respectfully ask that you don't message formerly listed mods about whether they are still a moderator or not as we believe they are entitled to their privacy with this change.

If you encounter an unfair ruling or something that isn't handled how you think it should be, we still encourage you to report your ticket to the support email (support@lioden.com) or Abbey (#1).

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If you have any transparency questions, or questions about how we moderate and why we make some decisions, please ask and we will try to answer in admin responses over the following few days. Please keep in mind we will not answer questions about specific cases.



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The1PunMaster | main (#167032)

Impeccable
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:48:14
I agree with @berries ! Also so many ppl had concerns about the new chat yet that worked out for the better too so let’s just give this a chance at least if u don’t agree



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Driverscissors (#84407)

Sinister
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:48:39



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Nny (#257)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:49:48
Problem is half the time nobody gives the updates an actual chance xD



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omalleytally (#80253)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:50:18
yeah, i will admit there will be bad apples. but there will always be good admins and good mods. it is totally unfair to lump them together. it wouldn't be fair of the admins to go "well we had bad experiences with a few players, so we can't trust any of the others."



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The1PunMaster | main (#167032)

Impeccable
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:50:27
@Nny really tho! XD



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Captain (#116042)

Maneater
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:52:18
Okay,in response to the admin response-

What happens If a mod,a new secret police officer,were to change their name? Then the person who had the issue with the mod wouldn't know and could still be subject to prejudice treatment in chat (Not the mod box,this doesn't have anything to do with tickets) unless they remembered their I.D. #,which I don't know anybody who remembers that.


Admin Response:
Well, IDs don't change, and this is all I can offer in this instance! You'll be able to block via that ID, so it shouldn't be a problem.


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Pixiefeather (#90243)

Savage
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:52:25
Because this feels really shady and unsafe. I’ve never had a problem with the mods and admins, and I respect them. But this isn’t how they should fix things like this.

Forgive me if I’m wrong ;-;

I’ll respect their decision either way, but I don’t really agree with this.


Admin Response:
We're sorry you feel that way, and just want to reassure you that we care about all players and hope that with time you will come to accept the change. If you ever feel unsafe or like you have been treated unfairly you can - sorry to reiterate this again! - always contact us via our support email, or Abbey (#1) directly for assistance.


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Edited on 21/02/19 @ 15:53:51 by Pixiefeather (#90243)

DrunkHedgedog (#86439)

Cursed
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:54:14
Admin Response:
As stated before, nobody controls you, they just enforce the rules, terms of service, and code of conduct that you are bound to by playing Lioden. If a mod is acting out of turn, it is down to the admins to handle that situation and not players, and you can prompt this by reporting the ticket over to us.

Player Response:
First:
To me, the people that decide when to apply a punishment, are the ones that control the situation, sorry if my english isnt accurate enough, it's not my first language.

I wont dare to report a mod as I don't know Who it's behind the problem, maybe I end up banned. And what I'm suppose to do, hey, Unknown is abusing his/her power. Same as I add my opinion, publicaly, so everyone know who I am, same as I report risking my accounts. Mods should.

Second,

If, as you are saying, the mods have more responsability than a player, and are not normal players, so they admins should handle it. (What you are stating are three levels)
Why they have the right to hidde? If they are more than me, I should be able to know.

And sorry, but I think that anyone that had been on LD long enough knows the problem when It comes to admins handling situations and mods with too much power on site... If you are not aware of this, research about LD on google, there are plenty of sites where LD players talk as they are AFRAID of doing It here.

In my opinion this only makes the situation worse


Admin Response:
Nobody is ever banned for making a report, it would never happen. If "unknown" is abusing their power, it is IMPERATIVE you report this to us via our support email, or Abbey (#1) directly. This is not handled by moderators but by admins. Your reports are so important to stop this if this is occurring, and you would not be punished for doing so.

Moderators are not superior to you, and are bound to the same rules, terms and code of conduct that you are bound to. They simply enforce the rules. If a moderator broke the rules, they too would be punished for it, where appropriate.

Additionally, we cannot control offsite content. We offer several different options for support if you want to report a moderator, if a user does not take one of these routes then we cannot act. We need to be made aware of these situations and only your reports can help us.


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The Dawn of Pink
(Fuchsia) (#140069)

Total Chad
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:01:00
No current defenitive opinion on this. As long as accountability is actually held to a decent standard, I should be fine with this. My sole concern is that we cannot know if accountability is indeed held. We shall see eventually how this decision turns out.






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Bobtail🐆 (#79288)


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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:04:46
I think this is kind of stupid.
Instead of punishing rude and unruly players for being rude to Staff, you're going to hide? Why? What is the benefit of that? I thought Staff was the giant rat that made all of the rules



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Captain (#116042)

Maneater
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:05:46
You didn't answer my question though? What if they DON'T remember their I.D? Or did you skip over that part in my question?

Do they just suffer mistreatment because mod anonymity is #1 priority?

And if they're too scared to Mod-Box,out of fear the offending mod will handle it,what then? They can't tell other mods privately,or even when the mod isn't in chat,because they don't know who's a mod anymore. I've also heard that emailing the support email does absolutely nothing from other players,so then what?


Admin Response:
We monitor the email and can see emails being handled every single day, if there has been a specific issue with a certain email, we hope that would be posted so we could look into it? How can we act without evidence?

As soon as a player posts something in the chat, or forums, or wherever, it displays their user ID besides their message, so we would hope it would be very easy to quickly grab it in order to block them on sight.

We didn't mention modboxing if there is a particular issue with a moderator. We mentioned emailing or PMing Abbey (#1) directly, to bypass moderators entirely.


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ambers II 🌓🌠 (#54263)

Famous
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:05:51
Seeing people happy about this update is a little scary. There is no reason moderators on a website should be anonymous. Period. There have been instances where the mods have been harassed and that is unfortunate. However, this does not excuse the recent, and almost blatant attempts by the administration to try to put a veil between themselves and the users.

We want to continue being a great team who works together to moderate Lioden. We hope that removing the moderator paws from moderators will allow them to play the game normally, as a real member. They have been forced into the spotlight since day one and we'd like to offer them the opportunity to sit back and enjoy the game as a member once more.

Okay, so why can't there be two separate accounts for moderators? A moderating account and an account just for playing? All of this sounds very, very suspect and I'm almost shocked that you all thought it was a good idea.


Admin Response:
I'm not sure I quite follow. A separate moderator account would still be an anonymous system. You would still see players and not know if they were moderators or not, because they would have their personal accounts for playing.


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omalleytally (#80253)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:06:39
they aren't hiding. they are still doing their job. they are just now able to get away from hateful spam mail.



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Bobtail🐆 (#79288)


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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:09:31
They should expect that when becoming a Moderator. It's a big job. You should be able to deal with that and not hide away.



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Kit in a Box
~⚙️~ (#61637)


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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:10:06
I support this, even more so after reading the comments. It shows, to me, that this change is greatly needed.





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