Posted by Giving Tree Solutions: Triple Tree Cub Day

[♰] Yharnam (#112370)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-11-16 19:53:30
[ Support My Other Suggestions? ]

Making Sub Males More Useful
Alter Stat Change to Giving Tree Cubs
New Event Title Ideas!
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Please Note: This suggestion is not about potato cubs.
It is about a community activity which has been impacted by bloat: Cub Drops. Future mention of potato cubs will result in being re-directed to this text. Additionally, comments about "Giveaway Chat" will be responded to the same. Cub Drops are announced, and treated like a community game. They are not the same.


✪ Summary:

In the past, when Lioden had a population less than half its current size, the Giving Tree was healthier. It went through bouts of having a lot of cubs, to having almost none. However, several factors have contributed to this bloat growing rapidly out of control.

May Adol Claiming
Vkai's male adol claiming is the only way to get a G1 king, and that's great! ... But the down side, is that it leads to a ton of bloat in the tree. Every single May, the tree's male adol numbers bloat out of control, meaning anyone wanting to tree nice male adols is SOL.

Breeding Challenges
Further compounding May's issue is the Mohawk Breeding Challenge. Every single dud cub donated to the tree contributes to male and female cub bloat as well. But this isn't even limited to only May. December also features a breeding challenge, another time of the year the tree sees insane bloat.

Growing Population
Lioden's growing population isn't a bad thing. It's awesome that we've more than doubled our population! However, certain features were not equipped to withstand this sudden boom in growth. While tree bloat used to primarily be limited to May and during breeding challenges, now, it's a year round problem.

Because for every 1 cub a player takes from the tree, players can dump as many as they want.

As of 11.16.2023, the tree looks like this. And it almost always looks like this.



✪ What I Am Proposing:

[+] An Automated Weekly Tree Event
This event would occur once per week and would run all day. During this day, players will be able to claim up to 3 cubs or adols from the Giving Tree per account. Players with "Fatherly" personality would be able to claim up to 5 cubs per day from the tree on the account with "Fatherly".

This event could be coded into the system, with an alert that is automatically included in the Daily Rollover Summary. Alternatively, a banner could be included, either at the top of the Crossroads page, or at the top of the Giving Tree page.

It is my hope that such an event may not only help with the Giving Tree bloat, but restore an old event that players loved but cannot easily host anymore: Giving Tree Cub Drops.

Thanks for reading.

Data Samples
7-Day Tree Observations: Starting on 11.28.2023


Pertinent due to the Albino Breeding Challenge
Update: December 26th, 2023 Tree Status

Update: December 28th, 2023 Tree Status


Important Update: January 12th - Sub Male Treasure Hunt
Big ups to the dev team for coming up with a solution that's both improved sub male usefulness, and also helped clear the male adols out of the tree! However, male and female cub bloat still remains. Still, I won't knock how much this helped!

I do *not* want Treasure Hunting to be year-round, but I'm glad they introduced it.


Tree Population Drop - Partial.
Update: March 14th, 2024 Tree Status


Status is still not ideal, but it seems to be recovering slightly. These conditions are not sustainable for community tree drops, and overwhelmingly, the bloat in the tree seems to always dip in evening and raise by 1/3 or more during the day. Snapshot taken around midnight. We can expect to see male numbers shoot up in May. Will monitor through the year.

Tree Population Rise - Total.
Update: March 21st, 2024 Tree Status


Tree status has once more climbed, with the previous dip in female cubs being moot.


If you don't support, I'd like to know why. I appreciate constructive criticism over a simple "no".



This suggestion has 225 supports and 13 NO supports.



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Edited on 21/03/24 @ 01:36:26 by [♰] Yharnam (#112370)

🧡 leon | g1 x2
ros bo ukame (#211229)


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Posted on
2023-11-28 16:21:23
I'm honestly not sure why such a "drought" as said would be a bad thing. As proposed, it's a once-weekly event, not every day. There are often not very many female adols anyway. I don't think it'll change much. And if we have to sacrifice female adols, who aren't ever really populated anyway, for the sake of the whole trees' health, I don't think it's a bad thing. There are so many female adols people can get for scraps in TC anyway. For the same price or less as what you'd give to tempt a cub. Again, it's just once a week, and lions are already deleted every few days.



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[♰] Yharnam (#112370)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-11-28 17:55:36
Regarding the 'drought':
Do we want a tree full of almost guaranteed potato cubs, or the possibility of players dumping good cubs? There's a ton of us - myself included - that used to drop muties and rare bases - often clean - on the regular.

We're reluctant now, because of the high chance they get deleted. I used to dump AMPs, piebalds, primals, patches and more. Players used to drop dwarfs and leopons and tigons. Now, we rarely see cub drops.

When those cub drops happened, the tree would naturally get cleaned out. Sure, a lot would toss their duds back, but that doesn't happen anymore - and can't - because the number outpaces the active users in chat.

The bloat in the tree has destroyed a once-regular community activity.



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Edited on 28/11/23 @ 17:59:58 by [♰] Yharnam (#112370)

Akuma|RLC collector|
🦚 (#317175)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2023-11-28 18:05:45
Another point, Someone cleans out the tree and gets mostly “good lions” and it leaves rarely any for anyone else

I do suggest there should still be a limit to how many people can pull like maybe 30 cubs and 30 adols or maybe even 60, This makes it even so people can get those dropped mutations more evenly otherwise there’s a chance one player will be getting those said dropped mutations, With dozens of players this can make it more fair so one person doesn’t get all the mutation or “Good lions” /nm



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Edited on 28/11/23 @ 18:06:27 by Akumo (#317175)

🧡 leon | g1 x2
ros bo ukame (#211229)


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Posted on
2023-11-28 18:08:13
I believe the suggestion is for 3 cubs per player or 5 cubs for fatherly lions during the event!



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Akuma|RLC collector|
🦚 (#317175)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2023-11-28 18:10:12
I didn’t see that cause I saw someone else’s comment and those numbers confused me oops but anyway

And you gotta count people’s side accounts too that’s like what- how many for people’s accounts?



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Edited on 28/11/23 @ 18:11:25 by Akumo (#317175)

🧡 leon | g1 x2
ros bo ukame (#211229)


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Posted on
2023-11-28 18:12:44
Well, 10 at the max for one player if both accounts are fatherly lions.



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Akuma|RLC collector|
🦚 (#317175)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2023-11-28 18:15:11
And how many people play this game with one person holding two accounts? There most definitely would end up being a small drought

The tree would most likely be near empty

Anyway this is all I’ll say on it

Unless the possibility of a drought is prevented I’m not supporting sorry



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Edited on 28/11/23 @ 18:16:40 by Akumo (#317175)

🧡 leon | g1 x2
ros bo ukame (#211229)


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Posted on
2023-11-28 18:16:12
I'm just not sure I see the problem. It's a once-a-week occurrence. The tree will fill back up. It always does.



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🔆solace (#148835)

Maneater
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Posted on
2023-11-28 19:18:40
The cub treeing events died with the implementation of Giveaway chat and rule changes, not with the abundance of cubs in the tree. I've also personally gotten 3 mutated cubs within this past month alone, 2 being male adols, 1 being a female cub.
My previous criticism was for the system itself. Tripling the amount of cubs one could take puts enough stress on an already f2p feature, and once a week on top of that makes it impossible. It favors older/seasoned players over its intended audience: new/returning players who would be happy to get a kickstart to their pride for free.
As much as the cub drought wouldn't matter to older players, I can imagine it very discouraging to anyone just starting out.
Maybe with some tweaking I could see this working, but again, it's too big of a change.



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[♰] Yharnam (#112370)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-11-28 19:57:52
To debunk a few of these:

"Tree drops died with Giveaway chat"
No, they did not. Players still announce tree-drops in main chat. I do them semi-regularly with item drops. Players are actively complaining about the cooldown in Giveaway.

"Put stress on a F2P feature"
There's no stress. The site's servers function well even at 5000 player capacity. They've received multiple robust updates and are due for another per recent news update.

"Favors older / seasoned players"
Again, this is a once-a-week occurance. The tree will re-fill during the week. And, as the math I showed earlier in this post proved, less than 75% of players are taking cubs OR it is filling up just as fast:
https://www.lioden.com/topic.php?id=304429525654&page=1#304446071832

If anything, this will let newbies have a better chance at taking part in cub drops, or getting something good if players use this opportunity to drop good cubs, as more chances to grab mean more chances to grab a special cub that's dropped.

Also Akumo, I don't want to sound rude, but the mention of 3 and 5 cubs being tree-day only was in the main post. Did you not read the main post before commenting??



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🧡 leon | g1 x2
ros bo ukame (#211229)


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Posted on
2023-11-28 20:00:37
I'm genuinely curious why it would favor older players? The new players have the same ability to pull cubs from the tree. A lot of older players I know don't even get tree cubs anymore. Just forget or don't care.



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[♰] Yharnam (#112370)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-11-28 21:32:09
Yeah, I forget most days, and I have Fatherly on my other account. I think a ton of older players actually put more IN than they take haha.



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🔆solace (#148835)

Maneater
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Posted on
2023-11-28 22:40:58
It favors older players in the sense that it doesn't effect them, as Yhar just stated. A cub drought makes the whole tree useless, and players who might rely on that feature are left unable to use it. All theoretical but still possible.
My wording with the "stress on a f2p feature" was weird, sorry. I didn't mean server-wise. And now I'm not sure what I was trying to get across there, either.



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[♰] Yharnam (#112370)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-11-28 22:47:16
I didn't say that at all lmao. I said that most players who are older probably don't take from the tree, so they aren't actually taking any new cubs. Which means all of the cubs are probably going to new players. If anything, new players being able to take more would benefit haha.

It's alright. Like, our hope is a healthier tree with more rotation will mean better cub quality over-all, since more folks will be willing to drop them. I'm trying to also push for cubs under a certain threshold keeping their stats, to further improve quality.



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Lemon (any pronouns) (#178820)

Prince of the Savannah
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Posted on
2023-12-10 19:40:55
Admittedly, I don't really understand what the problem with the tree being bloated is. The tree has always and will always be a lottery of pretty muties and unremarkable potats, and it's much more enjoyable to get a chance at an interesting cub or adol every day then visit the tree and find it consistently empty. I may be biased, as I remember playing during a time where whenever I checked the tree, it was pretty much if not entirely empty, and it just.. sucked. The bloat seems preferable over that.



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