Posted by Mysterious Stranger (economy fix idea- UPDATED!)

Maru (#38081)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2014-10-28 10:37:00
Preface: I know there are a ton of suggestions already posted for how to “fix” the economy. I don’t pretend to be any smarter than anyone else who has put forward an idea on that score. In fact, I’m pretty sure there just isn’t a “perfect” solution. But I have spent some time reading the feedback the other ideas have gotten and thinking about what’s being said. It seems to me that any system to remove lions from the economy must:
1)Have an incentive for people to use it. “Chasing” lions for no reward isn’t working- people just aren’t using it enough.
2)Not add SB to the economy.
3)Discourage/disallow people from taking unfair advantage (“gaming” the system) by claiming a bunch of NCL’s and turning them in for rewards instead of buying bred cubs.
Hopefully, my idea will accomplish... at least some of those things. ^_^;

The Mysterious Stranger
If the lands become overcrowded with lions, the balance will be destroyed and all will suffer. In the name of preventing this catastrophe, a mysterious gray lioness is willing to guide surplus lions from your pride to a new home far away. You will never see them again, but in exchange for assigning your pride members to her custody, she offers various trinkets (decors, titles, and such) for sale in her shop. While I came up with this beforehand, this would be very similar to how the Shaman shop works in this month’s event.

Unlike the Celestial Stone, which killed a lion and gave you a random reward of XP or SB, this lioness just shuffles the lions off to parts unknown (this allows players to imagine whatever fate they want for their lions). The Stranger offers tokens in exchange for these lions. But how much is a lion worth?

Each lion would be worth a base amount of tokens (The exact amount would be up to the admins to determine, but for our example, let’s say 5 tokens for any lion.). It doesn’t matter if this lion is an NCL you just pulled off the savannah or a beautiful pedigreed cub, you get at least 10 tokens for it every time. If the lion has more than 3 markings, however, you get a small bonus (to keep my math easy, 5 tokens.) You would also get a bonus if the lion had more than 100 stats (This bonus should be the same as the marking bonus, so in our example, 5.) If the lion has 3 markings AND 100+ stats you get both bonuses, for a total of 15 tokens where an NCL (for example) would be worth only 5. The exact numbers are, again, up for debate but they should pan out in roughly that way- gathering NCLs to turn in should be an option, but not a very good one.

The standard bonus system could concievably be more granular, but it is hard to balance rewarding appearance-breeders with stat-breeders in that regard, since each lion can only have a max of 10 markings and each lion can have theoretically infinite stats (among other reasons). That is why in this initial pitch I've only included one tier of marking-bonus and one tier of stat bonus. However, the following additional system would serve to augment the rewards for appearance-breeders and stat-breeders in a fair way:

Sometimes the Mysterious Stranger has something special in mind. She won’t reveal her reasons, but occasionally she might especially desire any number of traits: acertain mark, a specific fertility, males, females, a certain range of stats (ex: 350-600- could be anything, though), a certain threshold of stats (anything over 300), a certain base, mane, or eye color, or a combination of the above. If your lion happens to meet her special criteria, you get an additional bonus. (I’m still undecided on whether this bonus should be the same every time, or if it should change depending on how much of a rarity her request would be, allowing players to very very rarely hit the jackpot). The Stranger should only change her criteria on Fridays, and they should be announced in the News post so everyone is aware of what she wants.

This system does not unfairly penalize new players or folks with atypical tastes. It rewards those who breed for appearance or stats (or both). While NCLs have some slight value, enabling newbies to maybe make some money selling NCLs, they are not so valuable as to unbalance the system completely. There is also an element of luck, in that if you happen to have a lion the Stranger especially wants you can get even more tokens than you otherwise would.

Here are some things the store might sell (Thank you to Roka, Dunnart, and Blooming~Iris for suggestions):

MAYBE: base changers, mane changers, and other items available in either the Oasis or Monkey Business. I’m not sure that’s a good idea, because selling GB items would take revenue away from the site and selling SB items would devalue the SB sink that is Monkey Business, worsening the glut of SB in the system. While it might not be a good idea to incorporate such items, it is a possibility so I have listed it here.

XP granting items, on the order of coconuts or broken drones.
Food with a higher chance to grant stats than usual prey.

More cheaply than the special food, food bundles or normal carcasses as well. (Tyrrlin)
A monthly special could be out of season event marking applicators (these would have to be pricey) (Blooming~Iris).
Tokens could be for sale for SB at a high price. This would not overly devalue tokens if the token prices for other items were high enough (Roka).
A modification to this idea: Perhaps there could be a bundle available for sale for SB that includes a random amount of tokens, introducing a fun element of uncertainty into how many you might get (MysticSky). Maybe the bundle could also contain some food or toys as well.

Decors:
Footprints of the Departed-A clay rock in which lions have left pawprints as keepsakes before leaving
They Grow Up So Fast- Baby teeth from cubs that have grown and left (scattered on the ground or maybe as some kind of jewelry?)
Braided Keepsake- Locks of hair (again for the ground or possibly as jewelry)
Trophies of the Culled-Lion cub skulls (Dunnart)
Trepidation- Sad facial expression (Dunnart)
Relief- Relieved/relaxed facial expression (Dunnart)
The Spared- Relieved/chilling lioness (Dunnart)
Ill-Gotten Gains- Broken/gnawed on toys (Dunnart)
Unloved decor (lioness skull?) (Blooming~Iris)
Violent Slap decor (bruised and bloody claw mark down cheek?) (Blooming~Iris)
Abandoned ________ (a lion or lioness walking away in the background?) (Blooming~Iris)
Farewell to You Background (lioness's walking away in the background, rainy maybe?) (Blooming~Iris)
Greener Pastures (a background with lots of beautiful green grass and flowers with mountains in the distance)
Bright Future (a background with a sunrise theme)
Fond Farewells (a sunny background with a grassy field with a path leading off towards distant mountains)

Achievements:
Farewell Forever My Love: achievement for giving up X amount of lionesses (Blooming~Iris)
Get Away From Me You Heathen!: achievement for chasing X amount of males (Blooming~Iris)
Your Mother Doesn't Love you/Future Abandonment Issues: achievement for chasing X amount of cubs. (Blooming~Iris)

Titles:
Chaser, ______ (Blooming~Iris)
King of Running Off (Blooming~Iris)
Stranger Danger (Blooming~Iris)
"the Pragmatic"
King of Fond Farewells
LupineEyes[Raiven] suggest having some that are specifically for good or bad karma (as in, there would also be a karma threshold one would have to meet to use them):
Bad
Demonic _____
Killer/Murderer, _____
_____, the Sacrificer

Good
Angelic _____
Savior _____
_____, the Guide

There are some things about this idea that I'm unsure on. For one, it's a lot of coding. But any new feature would be. It's also another currency, but given that each new event seems to have its own currency it seems the Devs are not shy about that. But also, it might take some trial and error to hit upon the correct "value" for a given lion to keep the economy in balance.

TL;DR: Sell your lion to an NPC in exchange for tokens (not SB, not GB, something else). Any lion that’s breathing is worth a base amount. Lions with stats above a certain threshold earn a bonus, lions with more than 3 marks earn a bonus. Additionally, the NPC sometimes has special requests- if your lion meets the NPC’s criteria, the lion is worth even more while the “special” is active. Once you have accumulated enough, use those tokens to buy shiny things like decors or titles.

Thanks to those who have made suggestions!
Whispermouse
Knoka
Larvirawr
Roka
Blooming~Iris
LupineEyes
Tyrrlin
Dunnart
MysticSky



This suggestion has 543 supports and 5 NO supports.



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Edited on 05/11/14 by Maru (#38081)

Roka~Insane~(Wolfsea
) (#14648)

Demonic
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Posted on
2014-10-29 07:53:04
I'm not sure on the idea. Maybe make it to have the decors with these tokens be super high and possibly make a silver beetle sink with this idea have like 1000 sb for 1 token.



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Maru (#38081)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2014-10-29 07:58:43
Hmm, not a bad idea, Roka! I agree that the decors/items/what-have-you should be expensive token-wise to keep people wanting them.

Not sure about the exact price point there, but being able to buy tokens for a high SB cost is worth considering.



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Whispermouse (#42554)

Terrifying
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Posted on
2014-10-29 08:18:58
Larvirawr, the leveling is supposed to be /only/ for NCLs. If you're running out of space, don't claim NCLs, or simply chase them instead of giving them to the "stranger"

That's the whole idea, it stops people from mass claiming them for a profit because they have to take up space and eat up food.



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Blooming~Iris [TN] (#19553)

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Posted on
2014-10-29 08:21:59
I'm leaning towards the first option of every lion and lioness being the same price. It would be far more easier for the older members to stock up on these tokens if 'fancier' looking lions sold for more because their prides will be full of lioness's with bred only bases or other special/expensive markings. Compared to newer players who would only be lucky enough to have them through a really generous adoption thread or den clear out. So to make it even you should every member collect tokens at the same rate, that way this currency doesn't inflate like the apparent SB does for have of the members.

(EDITED for stat mention)
However, if we are taking in consideration their stats and not their looks or amount of markings then I can agree to a boost in tokens depending on the stats it has prior to being brought to the stranger.

I think it also be a nifty (oh my...I just said 'nifty' lol) idea that just like SB, and GB, that we are able to trade and transfer these tokens to other players. Using this as a way to help deflate the SB floating around, not being used seems like a good plan.

Also as an idea of the things to be offered in the 'store' why not mix of items offered in both the monkey buisness store and oasis for those who don't have a way to earn GB (due to either no real cash, or the talent to earn some through the art thread)? Also an idea of decor or backgrounds fitting the theme of chasing off or abandoning?

Examples:
Unloved decor (lioness skull?)
Violent Slap decor (brused and bloody claw mark down cheek?)
Abandoned ________ (a lion or lioness walking away in the background?)

Farewell to You Background (lioness's walking away in the background, rainy maybe?)

Other things that can be offered maybe like base changers, mane changers.

Maybe have a special every month on a special out of season event marking? (make those expensive though)

Not going to support just yet, I want to see some more opinions about this. I'm already supporting one chase option, but I am definitely leaning more towards this.



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Edited on 29/10/14 by Blooming~Iris [TN][Lights On] (#19553)

Maru (#38081)

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Posted on
2014-10-29 08:44:29
Whispermouse, I'm not sure how the Devs would be able to get the code to tell the difference between an NCL and a bred lioness. As far as I'm aware, there's nothing in the code right now to differentiate them, so as long as someone changed the name from "Newly Claimed Lioness" to literally anything else, the game would have no way to know that wasn't someone's lioness that was the first offspring of their first king that they were keeping for sentimental reasons.

Hi, Blooming~Iris! I really love your ideas for decors and backgrounds to offer in the store.

I'm not sure I understand, though: How would it help with SB inflation to be able to transfer tokens between players? I also don't think rich players having fancy lions creates SB inflation- SB inflates because more is being created (by selling carcasses to Monkey Business, for example) than is being removed (Such as by people participating in the raffle, or buying items from Monkey Business). This makes each individual SB worth less, causing everyone to charge higher SB prices for everything. Having more ways to remove SB from the game will fix SB inflation.

If you can buy this currency for SB, but then it's stuck on your account- that reduces SB inflation. Being able to buy the token and then give it to another player just concentrates what SB there is, it doesn't get rid of any, so I don't agree that it should be transferable, at least not without another reason.

That said, I definitely agree with you and with Larvirawr that stats, not marks, should be the most important factor in how token rewards are calculated. This is because even a newbie, with a few days of work, can have a lion with good stats if they hunt with them diligently.

Though, maybe we shouldn't bother with marks at all (for this idea, I mean). They're so random when you breed for them, it doesn't matter if both mates have 10 marks, the cub may have two or none at all. Maybe I should alter the proposition to where it doesn't factor in marks, but calculates on stats alone. Let me think about it a minute more. I had insomnia last night and I'm a little scattered, probably best not to make major revamps until I've slept.




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Blooming~Iris [TN] (#19553)

Remarkable
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Posted on
2014-10-29 09:31:16
This is why I don't talk business lol, I only know about the SB issue we apparently have on lioden from forum posts I read.

So..ignoring my embarrassing attempt at sounding more intelligent than I am...I can see your reasoning for not offering the tokens into trade if it just concentrates SB into one place. And maybe it it ever is offered as a trade item, maybe it should strictly only be able to be traded for GB? But keeping the tokens exclusive seems the smarter route.

I agree with not bothering with marks, since it takes newer players longer to really start to fill their pride with fancy lioness's.

...OMG I can't remember if it was this thread or the other chase feature thread where I read something about not being able to tell if a lioness's an NCL or not...So I'll post in both.
There is an easy way to check and that is through the broken Heritage box. NCL's do not have a family tree, their family is 'Unknown' so that eliminates people from easily claiming then chasing NCL's after an hour of ownership.



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Edited on 29/10/14 by Blooming~Iris [TN][Lights On] (#19553)

Whispermouse (#42554)

Terrifying
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Posted on
2014-10-29 09:37:59
NCLs don't have any heritage, so there's something that differentiates them



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Maru (#38081)

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Posted on
2014-10-29 09:43:58
Oh, don't worry about it! ^_^ Heck, I might be completely backwards on it myself. I am legendarily bad at math.

Hmm. Still torn on the marks thing, I really am. On the one hand, it's hard to be a new player in a game. It really is. And I'm not convinced it's a good idea to put another way for new players to be at a disadvantage, because it risks discouraging them even more than they already are. Plus, having fancy lions is a reward in and of itself- A) they're pretty and B) they are in high demand, meaning anyone who can produce them steadily can more easily get what they want in game.


On the other hand, it's not easy to get those fancy lions! It's hard work, as every player knows, which is why they aren't so common. So it doesn't make much sense to me to say that someone doesn't deserve a reward for that hard work just because they happen to have more than someone else. Of course they have more- they worked for it!

Then again it's not like the game can guess a pretty lion from a 10-mark train wreck. Oh, I just don't know! *dies*

Edit: Sorry, Whispermouse, cross-post. I suppose there is that. I'm not sure if the coding's feasible, but what the heck. I'll clarify your suggestion just in case.



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Edited on 29/10/14 by Maru (#38081)

Blooming~Iris [TN] (#19553)

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Posted on
2014-10-29 10:03:27
Well, it was mentioned somewhere about the stranger hosting 'specials' and looking for certain lioness's only right? So why not have something like that then, during like a week or 2 every month the stranger request certain lions or lioness's only. like ones with this many markings, or ones with only a specific marking?

That way the older members would at some point still get a boost in token wise, but only on a planned out interval with limited time. That way, the pretty lions they do breed, but can't sell or give away can uncluttered their dens and still reward them a slight boost in tokens if the marking[s] are present on the base at the time they give it up to the stranger.

Also proposed on the other chase feature thread are achievements added to the list.

Like a:
Farewell Forever My Love: achievement for giving up X amount of lioness's

Get Away From Me You Heathen!: achievement for chasing X amount of males

Your Mother Doesn't Love you/Future Abandonment Issues: achievement for chasing X amount of cubs
______________________________________

And another purchasable item could be titles you can only get from the Strangers store:

Chaser, ______
King of Running Off
Stranger Danger



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Edited on 29/10/14 by Blooming~Iris [TN][Lights On] (#19553)

Maru (#38081)

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Posted on
2014-10-29 10:06:40
LOL, Stranger Danger. Yes, titles and achieves would be an excellent incentive.

Actually, that's a really good idea about the specials. It's a great compromise and I like it a lot. Let me go put that in.



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Blooming~Iris [TN] (#19553)

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Posted on
2014-10-29 10:09:42
I'm starting to like this more and more now lol. Now that I'm getting a feel of how the stranger store would pan out. It has a similar feel to the monthly events except much harder.



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Maru (#38081)

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Posted on
2014-10-29 10:22:24
Yes, and always available. *nodnod* ^_^ I'm glad you're liking it. Frankly, I'm just delighted people are interested enough to sit here and debate the finer points with me.



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Blooming~Iris [TN] (#19553)

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Posted on
2014-10-29 10:31:35
I rarely comment on game development threads too, even if I support it, but talking about different ideas and how to improve a possible feature is fun.



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Maru (#38081)

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Posted on
2014-10-29 10:34:24
It really is. Game design is a hobby of mine, so I love this stuff. XD



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Shikokudarkstar (#46024)

Angelic
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Posted on
2014-10-29 14:28:19
I love the idea. Some of the decor ideas are a little brutal but all in all a nice idea.

I have a concern though about the idea that high stat lionesses go for more. It's a fair idea. However my concern is too many people will purge themselves of those lions. :/ Maybe I'm over thinking it.



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Edited on 29/10/14 by Shikokudarkstar (#46024)







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