Posted by Mysterious Stranger (economy fix idea- UPDATED!)

Maru (#38081)

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Posted on
2014-10-28 10:37:00
Preface: I know there are a ton of suggestions already posted for how to “fix” the economy. I don’t pretend to be any smarter than anyone else who has put forward an idea on that score. In fact, I’m pretty sure there just isn’t a “perfect” solution. But I have spent some time reading the feedback the other ideas have gotten and thinking about what’s being said. It seems to me that any system to remove lions from the economy must:
1)Have an incentive for people to use it. “Chasing” lions for no reward isn’t working- people just aren’t using it enough.
2)Not add SB to the economy.
3)Discourage/disallow people from taking unfair advantage (“gaming” the system) by claiming a bunch of NCL’s and turning them in for rewards instead of buying bred cubs.
Hopefully, my idea will accomplish... at least some of those things. ^_^;

The Mysterious Stranger
If the lands become overcrowded with lions, the balance will be destroyed and all will suffer. In the name of preventing this catastrophe, a mysterious gray lioness is willing to guide surplus lions from your pride to a new home far away. You will never see them again, but in exchange for assigning your pride members to her custody, she offers various trinkets (decors, titles, and such) for sale in her shop. While I came up with this beforehand, this would be very similar to how the Shaman shop works in this month’s event.

Unlike the Celestial Stone, which killed a lion and gave you a random reward of XP or SB, this lioness just shuffles the lions off to parts unknown (this allows players to imagine whatever fate they want for their lions). The Stranger offers tokens in exchange for these lions. But how much is a lion worth?

Each lion would be worth a base amount of tokens (The exact amount would be up to the admins to determine, but for our example, let’s say 5 tokens for any lion.). It doesn’t matter if this lion is an NCL you just pulled off the savannah or a beautiful pedigreed cub, you get at least 10 tokens for it every time. If the lion has more than 3 markings, however, you get a small bonus (to keep my math easy, 5 tokens.) You would also get a bonus if the lion had more than 100 stats (This bonus should be the same as the marking bonus, so in our example, 5.) If the lion has 3 markings AND 100+ stats you get both bonuses, for a total of 15 tokens where an NCL (for example) would be worth only 5. The exact numbers are, again, up for debate but they should pan out in roughly that way- gathering NCLs to turn in should be an option, but not a very good one.

The standard bonus system could concievably be more granular, but it is hard to balance rewarding appearance-breeders with stat-breeders in that regard, since each lion can only have a max of 10 markings and each lion can have theoretically infinite stats (among other reasons). That is why in this initial pitch I've only included one tier of marking-bonus and one tier of stat bonus. However, the following additional system would serve to augment the rewards for appearance-breeders and stat-breeders in a fair way:

Sometimes the Mysterious Stranger has something special in mind. She won’t reveal her reasons, but occasionally she might especially desire any number of traits: acertain mark, a specific fertility, males, females, a certain range of stats (ex: 350-600- could be anything, though), a certain threshold of stats (anything over 300), a certain base, mane, or eye color, or a combination of the above. If your lion happens to meet her special criteria, you get an additional bonus. (I’m still undecided on whether this bonus should be the same every time, or if it should change depending on how much of a rarity her request would be, allowing players to very very rarely hit the jackpot). The Stranger should only change her criteria on Fridays, and they should be announced in the News post so everyone is aware of what she wants.

This system does not unfairly penalize new players or folks with atypical tastes. It rewards those who breed for appearance or stats (or both). While NCLs have some slight value, enabling newbies to maybe make some money selling NCLs, they are not so valuable as to unbalance the system completely. There is also an element of luck, in that if you happen to have a lion the Stranger especially wants you can get even more tokens than you otherwise would.

Here are some things the store might sell (Thank you to Roka, Dunnart, and Blooming~Iris for suggestions):

MAYBE: base changers, mane changers, and other items available in either the Oasis or Monkey Business. I’m not sure that’s a good idea, because selling GB items would take revenue away from the site and selling SB items would devalue the SB sink that is Monkey Business, worsening the glut of SB in the system. While it might not be a good idea to incorporate such items, it is a possibility so I have listed it here.

XP granting items, on the order of coconuts or broken drones.
Food with a higher chance to grant stats than usual prey.

More cheaply than the special food, food bundles or normal carcasses as well. (Tyrrlin)
A monthly special could be out of season event marking applicators (these would have to be pricey) (Blooming~Iris).
Tokens could be for sale for SB at a high price. This would not overly devalue tokens if the token prices for other items were high enough (Roka).
A modification to this idea: Perhaps there could be a bundle available for sale for SB that includes a random amount of tokens, introducing a fun element of uncertainty into how many you might get (MysticSky). Maybe the bundle could also contain some food or toys as well.

Decors:
Footprints of the Departed-A clay rock in which lions have left pawprints as keepsakes before leaving
They Grow Up So Fast- Baby teeth from cubs that have grown and left (scattered on the ground or maybe as some kind of jewelry?)
Braided Keepsake- Locks of hair (again for the ground or possibly as jewelry)
Trophies of the Culled-Lion cub skulls (Dunnart)
Trepidation- Sad facial expression (Dunnart)
Relief- Relieved/relaxed facial expression (Dunnart)
The Spared- Relieved/chilling lioness (Dunnart)
Ill-Gotten Gains- Broken/gnawed on toys (Dunnart)
Unloved decor (lioness skull?) (Blooming~Iris)
Violent Slap decor (bruised and bloody claw mark down cheek?) (Blooming~Iris)
Abandoned ________ (a lion or lioness walking away in the background?) (Blooming~Iris)
Farewell to You Background (lioness's walking away in the background, rainy maybe?) (Blooming~Iris)
Greener Pastures (a background with lots of beautiful green grass and flowers with mountains in the distance)
Bright Future (a background with a sunrise theme)
Fond Farewells (a sunny background with a grassy field with a path leading off towards distant mountains)

Achievements:
Farewell Forever My Love: achievement for giving up X amount of lionesses (Blooming~Iris)
Get Away From Me You Heathen!: achievement for chasing X amount of males (Blooming~Iris)
Your Mother Doesn't Love you/Future Abandonment Issues: achievement for chasing X amount of cubs. (Blooming~Iris)

Titles:
Chaser, ______ (Blooming~Iris)
King of Running Off (Blooming~Iris)
Stranger Danger (Blooming~Iris)
"the Pragmatic"
King of Fond Farewells
LupineEyes[Raiven] suggest having some that are specifically for good or bad karma (as in, there would also be a karma threshold one would have to meet to use them):
Bad
Demonic _____
Killer/Murderer, _____
_____, the Sacrificer

Good
Angelic _____
Savior _____
_____, the Guide

There are some things about this idea that I'm unsure on. For one, it's a lot of coding. But any new feature would be. It's also another currency, but given that each new event seems to have its own currency it seems the Devs are not shy about that. But also, it might take some trial and error to hit upon the correct "value" for a given lion to keep the economy in balance.

TL;DR: Sell your lion to an NPC in exchange for tokens (not SB, not GB, something else). Any lion that’s breathing is worth a base amount. Lions with stats above a certain threshold earn a bonus, lions with more than 3 marks earn a bonus. Additionally, the NPC sometimes has special requests- if your lion meets the NPC’s criteria, the lion is worth even more while the “special” is active. Once you have accumulated enough, use those tokens to buy shiny things like decors or titles.

Thanks to those who have made suggestions!
Whispermouse
Knoka
Larvirawr
Roka
Blooming~Iris
LupineEyes
Tyrrlin
Dunnart
MysticSky



This suggestion has 543 supports and 5 NO supports.



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Edited on 05/11/14 by Maru (#38081)

Maru (#38081)

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Posted on
2014-10-30 14:03:35
I'd be fine with that, Tyrrlin. Actually one of my suggestions of things to sell was food that had a higher chance to give a lion stats than most food does (similar to Small Turtles), but having regular food more cheaply available would be a good idea too.

Edit: Whoops, cross-post. Thanks! Glad you like the idea!



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Edited on 30/10/14 by Maru (#38081)

Dunnart [On Hiatus] (#29090)

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Posted on
2014-10-30 16:26:24
This is a really well thought out suggestion. I love it. It would be such a fun addition to the game. C:

Personally, I'm leaning towards option 2. I definitely understand people feeling frustrated about not having as much as other people. But it wouldn't be fair if someone could get as much for a lion they only just claimed (for example) than someone who's spent 'lion generations' honing a specific look or hours a day building stats. I think it would be best to keep in mind the perspective of someone who's still building their den in mind when deciding exactly what the bonuses would be though. We wouldn't want to make it too huge and put new people off. As has already been mentioned, a bit of experimenting with values would be necessary anyway.

One thing I'm not quite sure about with the 2nd option though, is that stats be a permanent bonus and markings and other looks only be a 'special'. Some people like building stats and not looks and others like looks and not stats, so that seems like it might give an unfair advantage to a specific method of gameplay. That being said, adding a permanent bonus for looks might be too complicated. There's just such a broad range of things you could use to define it and not everyone who breeds for looks would breed for whatever definition chosen. So it would be a little hard to pin down a fair and simple classification for a permanent 'looks bonus' anyway.

I have a few more ideas for decors. I really like the decors and achievements already suggested and the names for them. Perhaps somebody has suggestions for what to call my decor ideas? I'm not very good at that. XD

-A clay rock in which lions have left pawprints as keepsakes before leaving
-Baby teeth from cubs that have grown and left (scattered on the ground or maybe as some kind of jewelry?)
-Lock/s of hair (again for the ground or possibly as jewelry)
-Lion cub skull/s
-Sad facial expression
-Relieved/relaxed facial expression (lol)
-Relieved/chilling lioness
-Broken/gnawed on toys



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Edited on 30/10/14 by Dunnart (CT) (#29090)

Maru (#38081)

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Posted on
2014-10-30 17:12:10
Thank you, Dunnart! I don't mind naming your ideas, they're adorable. ^_^

You're right on all counts- I don't want to see those who breed just for pretty lions to be left out in the cold, but the "special" is the only idea I've seen so far that even comes close to adequately addressing that. My only other idea was to give a bonus if a lion had a number of marks at or above a certain threshold- say, five- but I've seen many stunning lions that only had one or two well-chosen marks. And going by specifics would be difficult to make fair, too- if NCL bases are less valuable, say, as they seem to be among the most vocal of the public, that penalizes (unfairly I feel) those who like and breed for natural-looking lions.

There may be something I'm just not thinking of, but for now, the stats with "specials" seems to be the best way to go.

Edit: Added your ideas. Hope you like the names!



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Edited on 31/10/14 by Maru (#38081)

Dunnart [On Hiatus] (#29090)

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Posted on
2014-10-30 21:10:01
Thanks! I definitely like the names. Thanks for doing those. C:

Yep, you're right. It's just too hard to find a fair definition for a permanent 'looks bonus'. We could get around it, but the only ways I can think of to do that are ridiculously over complicated. XD

Not sure why I didn't think of it before, but one thing that might help could be to make it so a lion with stats over 100 earns the same number of tokens for the stat bonus, no matter how high above that the lion's stats are. That would still help prevent too much NCL gathering, and it would still be hit and miss for 'looks' breeders with the specials, but I think people who prefer stats over looks wouldn't get too much of an advantage over people who prefer the reverse that way.



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Maru (#38081)

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Posted on
2014-10-31 01:43:09
ARGH. I had a whole long reply typed out but then my husband needed something and when I came back and tried to submit it I was logged out.

Anyway, the basic gist is this:

What if every lion is worth at least X amount of tokens. Lions over 100 stats are always worth Y bonus tokens. Lions with more than 3 marks are likewise worth Y bonus tokens. It still makes NCLs in the least valuable category, but might allow there to be a small market for them, which would be a good way for newbies to make a little SB when they're just starting out.

HOWEVER, sometimes the Stranger, crazy lady that she be, offers specials on stats, too. Also the "special" bonuses could vary in worth and apply to categories rather than single criteria, so that if she asks for something that would be really valuable, like lions over 500 stats, she could offer more tokens than if she just wants NCL bases this week.

Edit: Oh, hey! Chatterbox cheevo. Yay!



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Edited on 31/10/14 by Maru (#38081)

Dunnart [On Hiatus] (#29090)

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Posted on
2014-10-31 02:54:58
Gah! I hate when that happens. >.<

That sounds like a good idea. If there ends up being a permanent 'looks bonus', basing it on the number of marks alone is the fairest way to go.

Making it so the bonuses are set to a specific amount for stats and marks could also make it a little less daunting for someone who's still building their den but still offers people who've worked harder a small edge. So there's a possible compromise in there between the 1st and 2nd options depending on exactly how many tokens the admins choose to award people for the bonuses if they accept this suggestion.

No matter what, I wouldn't want to get rid of the special bonuses. They sound like too much fun. X3

Congrats on the achievement btw. ^ ^



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Maru (#38081)

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Posted on
2014-10-31 03:01:45
Thankee!

Right?! It does sound like fun. It almost makes a whole new sub-game. You have a lion you don't want and can't seem to sell. Do you hang onto it awhile and see if it'll go on special, or do you give it up now for a known quantity?

Do you think this compromise is good enough to replace the other two ideas for one cohesive system, or should it just go in the middle as an in-between? I can't decide. I'm leaning towards making this the one idea we're pushing for, but I'm not sure.



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Blooming~Iris [TN] (#19553)

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Posted on
2014-10-31 07:48:46
(Because my account logged out as I was typing up a reply to the current discussion and I lost all my train of thought and am quite annoyed. So, I will try to recreate what I was going to say. It may or may not make much sense if I lost you in the explanation)

So let me type this down so I think I understand properly what you were just discussing. And the idea you were going for.

Having the lions kind of 'sorted' into categories depending on their price range from NCL being the lowest price to lets say...Event bases being the highest priced. Then the number of markings on the lions, depending on the special that is going on adds a small bonus.

Say like 3 markings is 1 bonus token, 6 markings is 2, and 10 markings is 3 while all the numbers in between are sorted out by the base marking bonus mentioned above.

Then for stat 1-100 gives no bonus, 101-500 give one bonus, while 501-1000 gives a 2 token bonus and so on.

Is that the kind of idea you were thinking of? Since you can't make the gathering of a large amount of tokens easy or fast, those small bonuses should be enough. The easy enough bonus tokens the newer members can at least achieve are the 101 stat bonus and the 3 marking bonus. But without any way of knowing when those bonus's will be implemented is still able to keep players on their toes every week at the start of a new special.



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Edited on 31/10/14 by Blooming~Iris [TN][Lights On] (#19553)

Maru (#38081)

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Posted on
2014-10-31 09:15:41
That is the kind of idea, but that's actually a much more nuanced version of the same idea, somewhere between what I was just saying and concept 2. What I was saying is that A lion with 1-100 and 3 or fewer marks is worth, say, 10 tokens. A lion with 200 stats would be worth, for example, 5 additional tokens . A lion with 4 or more markings but 50 stats would also be worth 5 additional tokens. A lion with 4 or more marks AND 200 stats would get both bonuses, though, so it would be worth a total of 20 (10 base +5 for marks +5 for stats) (these numbers are probably too big but it makes my math easy so I'm goin' with it)

Then, sometimes the Stranger runs specials. She might ask for Sundust bases in which case any lion turned in that has a sundust base, even if it has 5 marks and 300 stats, will get another bonus on top. She could also ask for lions that had at least 200 stats, or between 425 and 1014 just to keep people on their toes. She could ask for specific bases, eye colors, markings, or any combination of any of the above, and what bonus she gives for her special could change depending on what she asks for.

Does that make more sense? And which do you think is better? I like your idea because it is of benefit to older players without disadvantaging newbies, which is sort of the goal. I'm worried mine might be shafting older players in favor of newbies, which is not the intent.

Edit: Whoo! 100 Supports! *happydance*



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Edited on 31/10/14 by Maru (#38081)

Blooming~Iris [TN] (#19553)

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Posted on
2014-10-31 14:32:33
Hurray for 100!

Ok I got it now, I had to reread it just to make sure I got it (I can be slow sometimes lol).

I don't think I could pick between the two choices though, I don't know if there is a way to combine the two since the only way they are really different is I guess the pricing of the bonus? Either way still gets newbies involved and only slightly give the older members an edge because of the more variety they are bound to have in their dens...Maybe you should set up a poll? Tally up what viewers of the thread think about each possible way?



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Maru (#38081)

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Posted on
2014-10-31 15:24:50
Hmm, maybe. I'd rather think about it a little while more and see if one emerges as being clearly better in my mind. Let it all sink in and marinate a bit, I suppose. Plus, I'm sleepy- bedtime for Marus. I'll talk to you tomorrow! Thanks again for all your help and interest.



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MysticSky (#10364)

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Posted on
2014-10-31 15:53:01
I'm really liking all these ideas as for my idea why not put a delay? Or instead of user lions why not something simpler

A special stranger male and being able to stud for an sb or token fee?

Along with this if it's a token fee being able to buy a" satchel" for x sb at random points to get a random amount of tokens (like a food or toy bundle) and only being able to one when the chance comes up

I'm just trying to address the sb problem.

We would have to unlock the stud each week with x amount of lions sent away



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Maru (#38081)

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Posted on
2014-11-01 02:52:26
Delay: Putting in a delay still wouldn't help. People would just wait however long, then go get their lion they didn't actually want to surrender. Also, even if you were able to prevent this via coding somehow, having the lions available to be bought would defeat the purpose of surrendering them in the first place, which is to reduce the number of lions on the site.

Stranger: I so loved the random Tsavos in the drought event, but again, the point of this excercise is to reduce, not increase, the number of lions.

Satchel: Now this I can get behind! I don't personally like "gamble" items like this but I know some folks love them like cats love nip. Wouldn't it be fun to be able to buy an item that would give you a random number of tokens (you should always get some tokens, I think, but the minimum should be lower than the minimum cost of turning in a lion so it's still a risk) and had a chance for things like food and toy bundles? (I read your suggestion too fast the first time and this is what I thought you were saying, but I still think it sounds neat).



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FoolsgoldFenrir (#27778)

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Posted on
2014-11-01 03:53:06
Stranger Danger, I need that title xD



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Blooming~Iris [TN] (#19553)

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Posted on
2014-11-01 07:55:52
I liked the idea for the title too lol...I mean it IS ambiguous what the stranger does with the given up lions...and aren't strangers technically suppose to be bad? lol



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