Posted by "Neotenous"/"insular dwarfism"

🥀 (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:13:17
There are so many ugly and some very disturbing suggestions here... so I thought of why not a cute pleasing to the eyes "mutation"!
~~~

petite_lionboy_by_bekiss-dcgl92n.png
petite_lionbae2_by_bekiss-dcgozgl.png
petite_lioness_by_bekiss-dcgoqiu.png
petite_lionessby_by_bekiss-dcgp1wc.png
(scroll downer for other mock-up sketches)

*changed name to “neotenous” (used to be called "petite")
other name: "insular dwarfism"



It’s a smaller lion (and cuter)
-Maybe the size of a leopard or cheetah?
lion_cheetah_size_by_bekiss-dcgkxwc.png
-It would be healthy and breed-able. Can be Kinged.
-Inheritable? Can be passed down by both mother and father. ?
-It will be for all age stages. Doesn't need to have different artwork for newborn and young cub, 'cause those are already small (that artwork could be resized smaller, if needed).

The effect it could have in game-play could be:
- That it has less chance when catching big preys (on its one it cannot), but more likely to catch small preys.
- It is harder to breed, more chance to fail breeding, and if bred with Primal there's a 50 chance of cub mortality even with nesting (Primals are huge). *But if this coding is too much trouble then just make them not able to breed with Primals and 25-50% chance of failing breeding for "small" male studs with any non-"small", (females already have a fertility %).
- Shorter gestation periods and sexually mature faster. (took that from wikipedia.) *could be hard to code, so ignore it?
- Stat penalty.

~~~~

mutation_tag2_by_bekiss-dcgl0r7.png

Neoteny: "Some common neotenous physical traits in domesticated animals (mainly dogs, pigs, ferrets, cats, and even foxes) include: floppy ears, changes in reproductive cycle, curly tails, piebald coloration, fewer or shortened vertebra, large eyes, rounded forehead, large ears, and shortened muzzle."(from wikipedia) Neoteny is very common in humans!

This suggestion only refers to mammalian neoteny, and neoteny does not affect every physical traits in all cases:
neoteny = the retention of some juvenile characteristics in adulthood

So in theory, these lions can have normal full manes.

The neotenous lion doesn't need to have shorter gestations and mature sexually faster.

~~~~
Insular dwarfism
the "pygmy elephant" is a good example click and info: click

In looks It's not identical to the "dwarfism" mutation here, because the body is proportionate, limbs will be average or slightly shorter but not really noticeable. (Made edit pics to show that. above.)
This type can be healthy and have a life span similar to their bigger relatives (both the pygmy elephants and asian-african elephants can live up to 70 years, and the pygmy sexually matures faster:10yrs. vs14yrs)


*Got another idea: what if you can get this mutation when breeding with dwarfs?
(edit: Not, 'cause insular dwarfism is completely different from that type of dwarfism that actually deforms the body proportions. and insular dwarfism is evolution/species adapting to an environment.)
petite_lionboy_with_dwarf_by_bekiss-dcgla5l.png

Lioden includes Madagascar? (click) so pygmy lions can be a thing here...?

~~~~

I'm not suggesting amphibian's paedomorphosis (or for this "mutation" to be called Paedomorphosis.) Axolotl are pedomorphic species, but they are not described with the word neoteny (click)

Info! :D (from encyclopedia britannica)
Paedomorphosis: "retention by an organism of juvenile or even larval traits into later life. There are two aspects of paedomorphosis: acceleration of sexual maturation relative to the rest of development (progenesis) and retardation of bodily development with respect to the onset of reproductive activity (neoteny).

Classic examples include certain amphibian species in which development is arrested so that the larval form and aquatic habit persist as the organism attains sexual maturity and becomes capable of reproduction. In some species only a few morphological features are retarded, but the number of features retarded may differ from species to species. Adult humans, for example, display various neotenic body features that other adult primates do not.
In other species all morphological development is retarded; the organism is juvenilized but sexually mature. Such shifts of reproductive capability would appear to have adaptive significance to organisms that exhibit it. In terms of evolutionary theory, the process of paedomorphosis suggests that larval stages and developmental phases of existing organisms may give rise, under certain circumstances, to wholly new organisms."

Source: (click)

~~~~~

It seems, the difference between neoteny and insular dwarfism, (of mammals), is that:
neoteny usually is that juvenile-like traits are being selected for/ passed down) and insular dwarfism happens in isolated groups.

Both seem to be gradual mutations/evolution. both natural and artificial selection pass down the traits of juvenile appearance and smaller size. but in some cases retention of juvenile appearance can be sudden..?

In both, it shouldn't really affect the mane growth, since these animals sexually mature, manes are sexual characteristic, example:
insular dwarfish= pygmy elephants have tusks; and neoteny= human have beards and body-hair (scarce beards/bodyhair is seen in asians, but many do have full long beards).
Mane size and fullness is dependent on its own genes and on hormones mostly.

Lets imagine its a barbary-mane pygmy/neotenous lion? xD

~~~~~

On how to obtains these small lions:
If it's not considered a random mutation maybe this could be the scenarios:
- Your lion bred with a mystery pygmy/neotenous lion and got an offspring. like with the hybrids(Leopons).
- A Rapid evolution like the Primals are (they are rapid-devolution?). Mutie on Demand?
- *You encounter a pygmy/neotenous lioness in explore and claim like the NCLs. Could be during an event only, like the groupies? Or a Raffle lioness. (in this case it will be a special "mutie" only obtained like these?)

*Mutations in these game are not always true mutations, hybrids and ancestrals(evolving back) are called mutations here. Not every "mutation" needs to be super realistic.

~~~~~

fTfwtKs.png
Maybe could be the ofspring of that? 😂 (t'is a joke)

~~~~~~~

Let’s make Lioden Cute! (some balance is needed, its too gory and gruesome)

(It would be awesome it could be bought at some time like a Mutie on Demand item)



This suggestion has 1428 supports and 221 NO supports.



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Edited on 20/07/18 @ 13:01:19 by Zizi 🥀 (#12402)

🥖Your🥐Local
Bread🍞Dealer🥞 (#146681)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2018-07-13 07:39:58
@berenos
Where can i find their post for that??



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Berenos|On hiatus (#84593)

Resurgent
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Posted on
2018-07-13 07:41:01
@Pheo

It's posted in Xylax tumblr, we're not allowed to share links to it, but I bet it's easy to search!



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🥖Your🥐Local
Bread🍞Dealer🥞 (#146681)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2018-07-13 07:43:37
Oh alrighty! No its fine ty for letting me know ah!



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Malk (#117513)

Holy
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Posted on
2018-07-19 21:35:23
The sketches are just so adorable.. I really want these in the game!



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GayenaKing [Leonid
Project] (#74562)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2018-07-19 22:22:22
I just reread through this and is is better than the original idea, though I still don't like the mock ups, but please use a different source that doesn't use the word r*tard because its not really a medical term, and has been mostly out of use for years. Plus it's a slur used violently against those with mental disabilities.



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Berenos|On hiatus (#84593)

Resurgent
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Posted on
2018-07-20 00:12:34
@Somegaydude

Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think retarded is used correctly up there. Zizi is talking about how the organism's development is slowed, or delayed, as in, not developing at the usual speed. Nobody mentioned mental disabilities



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🥀 (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-20 12:51:49
Cool that you re-read it.

what Berenos explains is correct, but I didn't even wrote that, that is copy-pasted from encyclopedia britannica. its just a scientific word used correctly, not gonna dump a whole very well written scientific article because it has one word common people use for insulting. but I'll just replace it with "delayed", science can be so insensitive... oh! but the meaning might change... "delayed" is not as permanent as that word... retardation means "The extent to which something is held back or delayed."




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Edited on 20/07/18 @ 13:04:49 by Zizi 🥀 (#12402)

Mochi (rolling
fridays) (#164216)

Aztec Knight
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Posted on
2019-03-16 13:09:20
I need this



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Bezthiel 🍉 (#81210)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2019-03-21 21:26:10
Neoteny can actually be selected for in wild animals that need to survive in close proximity to humans. Humans prefer "cute" or "friendly" animals, which are less likely to be killed. This selects for neoteny in populations that isn't directly bred for.



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Mochi (rolling
fridays) (#164216)

Aztec Knight
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Posted on
2019-03-30 14:34:57
Yes but... primal isnt real, is it? So why cant we have this



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Robin (BLM) - Gen4
Cinnabar (#171993)

Confused
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Posted on
2019-05-11 13:11:50
They look so cute!
Lowkey need more dwarves in my life



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🇵🇸 Paxi | Haze
nRLC (#140130)

Smug
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Posted on
2019-05-14 10:48:05
I love the idea of pygmy lions! For simplicity's (and coding) sake, though, maybe it could just reuse the same stat model that hybrids and dwarves use? But much less severe.

Also! While inbreeding has no ingame effect YET, a pygmy mutation would be an excellent idea. IRL, animals are very inbred to retain these "cute" characteristics (i.e. pugs, scottish folds).



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Maggi (#179403)

Pervert
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Posted on
2020-02-03 04:28:23
For anyone who's still iffy on this mutation being a thing there's actually a video from trey the explainer which explains neoteny, including the fact that we are in fact descendants from a neotenous ancestor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81c5doqGh8A



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KalikaRoo31 (#89224)


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Posted on
2020-02-07 20:50:35
I like it and support but not for passing on naturally



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LittlePuppy {Vince} (#119969)

Confused
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Posted on
2020-02-19 19:35:43
I'm 4'10 and quite frankly I'm not, "mutated." I'm just short. I kind of find this suggestion a little rude. My appearance is no different and neither is my strength relative to my body size. Not to mention the artwork on this does no significant changes other than short and "cute." It would just be an artload put on artists with very little change.

Especially when it is something that could be simply fixed with lore in a lion's bio. It's not like Flight Rising where height and weight stats are generated with them. You can technically have a short lion/lioness without having to put artists through a lot of work. Most short people are just as smart and as strong as "regular" folks, so i couldn't even see the point in nerfing any stats for this.

Big no support from me.



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