Posted by Regarding the Release of Bases, Marks & Eyes

[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2021-09-29 15:03:28
[ Support My Other Suggestions? ]

Making Sub Males More Useful
Revisiting Grandpaws: A Much-Needed Fix
Tidying Up 99999 SB Branch Listings
New Event Title Ideas!
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DISCLAIMER


✪ Summary:

Over the last 5+ months, we've been getting a huge influx of new bases, markings and eyes released. Normally, this would be nice. Who doesn't like a big bomb of new content every now and then? But the key phrase here is 'every now and then'.

The scope of new breedable content added monthly is becoming overwhelming and is quickly losing focus.

✪ What I Am Proposing:

[+] Slow the release of new bases, markings and eyes to give players a chance to enjoy them fully, and give us updates on promised art content while addressing current art issues.

[EDIT] Edited for clarity & better organization (9.29.2021 @ 3:47 PM)
[EDIT] Axed the parts that are coding-specific (9.29.2021 @ 5:12 PM)
[EDIT] Addressed major art updates still not in-game (9.29.2021 @ 5:15 PM)
[EDIT] Addressed applicator bases and cream genetics (9.29.2021 @ 9:37 PM)

Male Poses
As posted on 10.09.2020 in this October Development Update, we were told that male poses were coming in the following months to year. It is nearly one year to the date, and we have not seen any updates regarding male poses. It's not related to the recode. So, what's going on with it?

Edit as of 8.20.2022: Still no news on Male Poses.
Edit as of 2.10.2023: Still no news on Male Poses.


Use High-Voted Player Suggestions
If nothing else - and if Lioden developers continue to release large amounts of new bases, markings and eyes at once - please consider adding breedable content that the community has suggested, and include them in polls.

There exist a large number of player suggested bases, markings and eyes with very high community support, and yet these are often overlooked. If the breedable content added to the game were fewer in number, I could understand being more frugal with picking from suggestions. However, we're already adding new content left and right, so why not start picking from things that players design more often?


The Superior Applicator and Cream's Woes
Many of the newest bases and markings that are being added are applicators. Applicators are nice, but Lioden's breed-only content is becoming thin by comparison. Another issue is Cream, because Cream is always an issue. Interesting content for this genetic category has long been few and far between, and it suffers heavily from applicators, misplaced genetics being shoveled into it, and uninteresting designs.


The Genetics Situation is Getting Worse
As many of us know, a number of bases are being shoved into genetics groups they don't fit the rules for. While this is an issue specific to a larger problem, slowing the amount of bases that are coming out will also help stop the bloat in genetics categories where these bases do not belong.

You can find more information on the specifics of this issue in this suggestion: Click Here


Misc. Art-Specific Updates That Remain Unfixed:
Old decors that still don't work on posed lionesses, such as "Bone Crown".
Old decors no longer match the current art style, are blurry and lower quality, such as the zombie decors and old wings.
Female and male default line art could genuinely benefit from having their lines cleaned up, though not changed.
The giving tree and games art is still outdated.
Half of the explore encounters from January and March are still outdated.
Many non-event explore encounters still use old art, including the ridgebacks and effectively every explore encounter from Desert biome up.
Several event banners still use the old art.

AGAIN: I am not asking for the release of bases, markings and eyes to be halted fully. I am asking for them to be slowed in favor of addressing updates that players have been requesting for years. Please do not assume that's what I want.


HIGHLIGHTED POSTS:
Roxanne #BLM (#121082)
"I'm a bit indifferent to this suggestion. I like all the content being released, HOWEVER, I think they should slow it down if it means bigger things like ... you know ... male poses. Or Primordial Dwarves. You know.

I also think they should be using players suggestions if they're going to continue to add on a monthly basis, but that's a totally different conversation.
So many high supported, unused suggestions being ignored...."

Fern [side] (#163971)
"Tbh I've also been starting to feel frustrated with the fact that nearly every single month without fail, they release at least one (if not multiple) new base applicators, seemingly in lieu of more productive things. Do we really need this many app bases? Most genetics groups now have more applicator bases than breed-only bases, which is kind of silly for a breeding simulator. Most of all, poor Cream only has two non-combo BO bases throughout the entire group (and they're both in the same sub-category too) so most Cream applicators are not in high demand unless they're a factor for a combo base. Yet new apps for this already over-saturated group continue to be released more and more."

🫐Cali [Main] (#283676)
"I agree. Many updates such as new questlines, male poses, and the whack-a-snake have been pushed aside to deal with something that is unimportant to the game. Really. Bases are not required every month. Anyone who says otherwise is uneducated in this matter. We have too many bases and not enough GOOD, HEARTY UPDATES. Bases will pull less players into the game, whereas a new questline or even being able to play a new game might bring others in."

43831 (#43831)
"I think what also bothers me is that they don't actually keep up with the amount of bases and marks released, either. A lot of them end up missing entirely on mutations for months and months at a time. [...] Speaking of "not keeping up with markings", you know what, there's another meaning to that. This is actually a big problem with raffle marks as well. So many of them just straight up don't exist because either the owner is hoarding them, the owner of the original lioness went inactive, or whatever reason or combination of reasons the markings have gone extinct. This wasn't the case in the past, as they would only release a couple marks at a time and only once or twice every month or every other month, so the markings had time to spread and if not, they could track them easily to release another lioness, and even release those markings in another slot if they so choose. Now there are so many that they have to immediately move on to the next set and leave the others behind to die out. [...] also yeah lol my main's king is Nautilus also and I'm also a Cream fan and literally all you really have to work with is Ivory and Cherry Blossom for CLCSS and for me personally I'm kind of over pink/blue lions."

If you don't support, I'd like to know why. I appreciate constructive criticism over a simple "no".



This suggestion has 272 supports and 21 NO supports.



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Edited on 10/02/23 @ 02:31:21 by [♰] Yharnam (#112370)

SnuhBoba🧋 (#225822)

Toxic
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Posted on
2021-09-29 15:10:34
Sorry but i like the new bases coming out faster :> it helps with variety so theres a new thing like every week or 2, if we get rid of the bases what will we sell? .,.



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[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2021-09-29 15:13:04
They'd still be coming out, just not in quite as drastically large chunks, and paced a little better, rather than huge bombs every month. The last five months have released a plethora of new stuff - including BO eyes, which we rarely see updates to - so there's a ton to choose from that should last for a while, while October, December and February are coming up. Those are always very big marking and bases months regardless.

Pacing releases also helps keep them valuable longer.



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Edited on 29/09/21 @ 15:13:29 by [△] Nadir (#108458)

Trickster - G3 Nadir
Ferus (#115921)

Sinister
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Posted on
2021-09-29 15:15:08
I'm for slowing the base, markings, eyes due to factoring that it is literally killing the value of those bases that come out. People can make a quick buck off them but the value is so temporary that it goes away immediately. Plus, it's been devaluing the older bases like Demiurge which sold for about 5-10 GB LESS this year because it's competing with so much new content.




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Myriad (#76)


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Posted on
2021-09-29 15:27:20
Thing is there's a difference between art things and coding things, and almost all the things mentioned as 'this would be better to have instead of more bases etc' are dependent on coding/behind-the-scenes aspects. Whereas bases, markings etc are art. So they rely on different members of the staff team, and time spent on one can't just be swapped over to the other because their expertise isn't relevant.

While the coding overhaul and all that stuff that was announced last year is in progress, it's inevitable that most new content and fixes will be art-based, because the coding side of things is invisible. I assume the coders are mainly busy with that, as they said at the time, without as much time for new content or fixing minor tweaks for old stuff. And because of how we voted in the poll way back when, the re-code is happening all at once rather than being drip-released, so it really is invisible.

I guess what I'm saying is I'd rather have plenty of shiny new things to be getting on with in the meantime while the behind the scenes changes are done, even if it means that has to be art-based. Slowing release of bases etc doesn't necessarily equal more of other stuff.



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[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2021-09-29 15:41:32
@Myriad (#76) :: I do understand that, and I get that the expertise is different. I do. I'm an artist and I can barely code. But especially with male poses, the more bases, markings, eyes and decors that are added, the more they have to also make for male poses.

Beyond even wanting this other stuff finally added, fixed or addressed? It's making the releases less exciting. And that was one of my core points here. They're very quickly being replaced by something new and shiny the next month.

If it helps, here's a list of places I've noticed art has been neglected. I will add it to the primary post.

Many explore encounters still use old art, including the ridgebacks and effectively every explore encounter from Desert biome up.
Old decors that still don't work on posed lionesses.
Old decors no longer match the current art style, are blurry and lower quality, such as the zombie decors and old wings.
Female and male default line art could genuinely benefit from having their lines cleaned up, though not changed.
The giving tree and games art is still outdated.
Half of the explore encounters from January and March are still outdated.
Several event banners still use the old art.



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[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2021-09-29 15:49:32
[EDIT] Edited for clarity & better organization (9.29.2021 @ 3:47 PM)



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Roxanne (#121082)


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Posted on
2021-09-29 15:57:53
I mean a lot of what you're saying sounds like an issue of just not reading the news posts.

I'm a bit indifferent to this suggestion. I like all the content being released, HOWEVER, I think they should slow it down if it means bigger things like ... you know ... male poses. Or Primordial Dwarves. You know.

I also think they should be using players suggestions if they're going to continue to add on a monthly basis, but that's a totally different conversation.
So many high supported, unused suggestions being ignored....

Myriad is right on the fact that it's being rehauled at once rather than trickled down, so ideally we don't know if they're still making good progress or not behind the scenes.

I'm very indifferent to this situation because I personally enjoy seeing what they make every month (even though 99% of the time it just feels like it was just kind of thrown out there to put up something).
So I don't really know....



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venna (#15577)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2021-09-29 16:03:54
i support this! i love the craftable decors that have been coming out and the NCL exclusive eyes but i feel like there’s just been so much that it’s overwhelming. i would 100% support slowing down on releasing new stuff so they could focus on other art issues!



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[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2021-09-29 16:13:49
@Roxanne #BLM (#121082) :: I assure you I am reading the news, don't worry.

I fully agree with you in regards that they should be looking at player suggestions if they're going to continue down this path of so much content at once. What's even the point of the vote system and suggestions if they don't look at the things players are genuinely asking for? Of course, most players are going to eat up any new content they're given. Beggars can't be choosers. But there's stunning suggestions that the community wants in the thousands of votes that never get looked at.

That's the thing. I enjoy the content. I genuinely do. But at some point, the quantity feels like they're shoveling things out to make players forget about how long it's been since they told us about the male poses, the recode, and whatever else they told us was coming. I think if they cared even a lick about following their own genetics rules, as well, I wouldn't be quite so upset. If they ever get another genetics rehaul pushed through, the continuing habit of shoving bases wherever is gunna mess things up worse.

@venna (#15577) :: That's the boat I'm in. It's overwhelming. There's so much. It doesn't feel special anymore.



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Myriad (#76)


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Posted on
2021-09-29 16:15:34
I would absolutely support prioritising filling some art 'gaps' - the tiny list of decors still not updated for poses, for instance, which are so nearly done. Frustrating to be so close but not complete!

But personally I don't care at all about explore art and such - though that's probably an unpopular opinion... To me it just feels like a huge waste of time; I often prefer the older more cartoony versions anyway. For the split second I look at it in explore before I click past, it isn't worth the effort spent updating imo, especially since many explore aspects including zones and presumably encounters are changing with the site overhaul anyway. Either way, I know it's just personal preference, but I simply wouldn't choose updating NPC art over more new bases and markings to play around with and breed, come up with projects for, etc.

I appreciate others feel very differently, and I totally understand that! Just explaining why - for me - it's a no support, because I've loved the amount of new bases etc this year. I certainly agree with Roxanne that other major new art additions like the often-mentioned primordial dwarfs and male poses would be great, and a bigger-scale project being added in if it's within staff's capability time-wise would definitely provide some welcome variety. But in terms of smaller-scale projects month by month, plenty of new bases/markings/eyes across the colour spectrum is simply something I get far more enjoyment out of than most of the alternatives, and that's what I'm here for



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[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2021-09-29 16:17:32
@Myriad (#76) :: Absolutely valid, and thank you for your input, Myriad.



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[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2021-09-29 20:07:22
[EDIT] Suggestion has been overhauled to be more concise in what it is addressing. (9.29.2021 @ 8:07 PM)



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Fern [side] (#163971)

Blessed
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Posted on
2021-09-29 21:19:47
Tbh I've also been starting to feel frustrated with the fact that nearly every single month without fail, they release at least one (if not multiple) new base applicators, seemingly in lieu of more productive things. Do we really need this many app bases? Most genetics groups now have more applicator bases than breed-only bases, which is kind of silly for a breeding simulator. Most of all, poor Cream only has two non-combo BO bases throughout the entire group (and they're both in the same sub-category too) so most Cream applicators are not in high demand unless they're a factor for a combo base. Yet new apps for this already over-saturated group continue to be released more and more.

To be fair, as others have said, it's impossible to tell what they're doing behind the scenes for the eventual rehaul, and art updates are easier than coding, but in the meantime this constant barrage of specifically app bases seems unhelpful imo. I would prefer more breed-only bases (especially in Cream for balancing purposes) or apps for things other than bases, like markings and skin colors (which iirc they are planning?) Hell, we could even use more uncommon bases, in contrast to the special applicators which for the most part we have plenty already.



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[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2021-09-29 21:35:29
@Fern [side] (#163971) :: Exactly. Cream has been steadily getting shafted and kicked around for a while now and I heavily agree. Apps for on-demand things are cool and all, but how about some actual nice stuff for poor cream?

What's worse, is that many of these cream bases are very underwhelming. It's a shame, because I wanted a Nautilus side king for a very long time, but what am I gunna breed with? The only other Cream Countershaded Light bases that're worth anything are Cherry Blossom and Ivory, both of which are old as piss! They're all applicator bases too.

And what about markings that work well with cream bases by being in similar colour tones? Markings are so often pinks, pastels or dark shades these days. I'm very tired of ebony, elysian and noctis markings. We have enough of the darks now.

I don't understand why it's so hard to actually add some of these cool community-designed cream bases. Make some that look like beach sand swirls, or vanilla ice cream with ribbons, or some based on dust storms. It's so easy to find inspiration but cream is like Lioden's redheaded step child. When it does get content? It's plain, applicators, or things shoved in cream that don't belong there - like Cherry Blossom and Seer.



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Flash. (#26282)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2021-09-29 23:05:07
Definitely supporting this as the release of so many new things is honestly what's keeping me from actively getting back on this game. It's so overwhelming to return every couple of months and see yet ANOTHER set of new markings and bases...



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