Posted by Reveal Pass Rates for [Almost] Everything [+404]

jester [im autistic]
☘️ | 🇵🇸 (#187561)


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Posted on
2023-04-23 14:57:54

Just hear me out, guys.

Currently, we only know the pass rates for Markings, Special Bases, Skins and Eyes. We also know that Mane Colors are split 50/50 from parents, but this is listed nowhere on the wiki, nor could I find it anywhere on site from an official source, so I did not list it. Knowing the pass rate for Special bases is new, and not knowing information has caused many issues for the site before.

For example, prior to June 2022, a majority of bases in game were broken. The more results possible from each base pairing would result in a lower pass rate for the base. This made passing Medium Bases, or even just a breeding of Dark x Light, or anything like that, much, much harder than it needed to be. This oversight was directly caused by a lack of transparency, as if users knew the appropriate % chances for bases, they could have reported this bug much faster and not have been ignored or dismissed as just being salty that RNG wasn't in their favor.

Another example of this is that Asiatic, Gilded, and Rose Gold, were broken. Asiatic, specifically, had been broken for years, and was only discovered because someone trying to breed Asiatic decided to go back through all Asiatics ever born in game, with living/stored parents, and saw that no Asiatic cub had ever been born from an Asiatic x Cream/White pairing. This went undiscovered for years, again, because we had no idea of the rate of which Asiatic should have been occurring, and we still don't. It was just assumed any breeding attempting an Asiatic base from an Asiatic x Cream/White pairing was just unsuccessful and RNG wasn't in their favor, not that the base was broken.

In the same post I linked for the percentage of marking passings, this information was revealed because of an oversight and miscommunication that resulted in markings at or below 20% opacity having a much lower chance of passing than markings at 21% opacity or higher, despite constant reassurances that opacity did not effect pass rate. This was due to coders miscommunicating the way markings worked and was not found from the site's launch until 2022.

I propose that the pass rates for nearly every single trait should be revealed, in numbers, through the wiki and through a newspost in game. The only thing I would say should be kept hidden is the triggers and rates for random rosettes, as that's a fun little mystery, random mutation chances, or the chance for random albino from non-albino parents. I believe everything else should be readily available to the players, not just to help prevent issues like the ones outlined above, but so players can make more informed decisions about the traits they decide to breed. Here's a quick, bullet point list of everything I would like to see disclosed:

· Combo Base Percentage
· Pass Rate of Albino from Albino Parent(s)
· Pass Rate of Kimanjano and Mandarin*
*and how kimanjano and mandarin's reduced pass rate effects non-hybrid kiman/mandarin x non-hybrid special breedings
· Pass Rate of Mane Shapes, including Combo Manes.
· Pass Rate of Rosettes
· Pass Rate of Hybrid Markings from Non-Hybrid Parent(s)
· Pass Rate of Primals and Primal Variants, including Primal Fangs being born from Primals
· Pass Rate of Dorsal Fur

OPTIONALLY:
· Respective Boosts of Cotton Root Bark, Lion Meat, and GMO Cow to Cubs' Mutation Chance
· Reveal VLF Boost to Cubs' Mutation Chance, and if lower ferts effect it more than higher VLF ferts.
· Rates of Common, Uncommon, and Rare bases from all breeding scenarios.

~~~~~

And that's about it for the suggestion, I just think there should be more info readily available about the game's mechanics because it can prevent so many issues in the future. Knowing the information is key to players knowing if a part of the game is working as intended. I'm honestly surprised we don't have more of this information available.

If you no support, please feel free to tell me why. It'll help me make this suggestion better.

Thank you for reading, and have a great day!




This suggestion has 463 supports and 8 NO supports.



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Edited on 23/11/23 @ 14:14:18 by jester [im autistic] ☘️ (#187561)

Thalath {Side} (#43831)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-04-23 15:27:04
I think it goes without saying, but in the scenario that something is patched, it should also be stated in a news post ASAP. Double markings (i.e. breeding two instances of Celestial Speckles onto the same single cub) were shadow patched at some point and no one was ever told about this, leaving a lot of people very upset when they discovered this was the case. (Double markings being able to be passed has been reinstated as of the anniversary update, years after the fact)

If changes to pass rates for anything are ever made, please make sure you let players know even if it's not telling them exactly what it is, just that it has been modified to be better or worse.



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Edited on 23/04/23 @ 15:32:21 by Thalath {Side} (#43831)

Dante (#200112)

Notable Lion
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Posted on
2023-05-03 23:07:23
Big agree with all of this. I think there are just too many bases/marks/etc for the “mystery” of not knowing the pass rates for it to be a fun mechanic.



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Toony (Penta Dawn
Nacre) (#143125)

Divine
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Posted on
2023-05-04 03:30:28
I agree, At this point an argument could be made that Lioden is almost Gotcha Game like with rarer things and most if not all of them have their draw rates listed. It just saves the hassle of having to pry and claw information out of devs hands, and makes things more transparent.



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Fern [main] (#158699)


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Posted on
2023-05-08 18:50:29
Support, and to add, I'd like to see Dorsal Fur and Overgrown Fur pass rates alongside Primals, for the sake of completeness (all mutations that have a chance of naturally passing down from the parent without a lion scrot) and because I rarely see those two sought after, so maybe knowing the pass rate would make them a little more desirable? (I get there are other reasons they're less popular like the whole crested mane thing and being a female-exclusive AMP respectively, but still, good on principle even if it only helps a little)



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Edited on 08/05/23 @ 20:47:26 by Fern [main] (#158699)

[SIDE] Project King
🐾 Rio he/him (#434432)

Pervert
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Posted on
2023-05-16 20:21:13
Huge support! The mystery can be fun, but you can choose to not research pass rates if you'd like to keep yourself in the dark. I heavily agree with the point being made about players being able to spot bugs too



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DesertPard (G2
DorsalFur RLC) (#147400)


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Posted on
2023-05-16 20:22:48
Support. As someone who has had four gilded-base kings, my bad luck suddenly makes a lot of sense. Feels bad.



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❄️Snowbird🎱G1
Ogdoad Pie (#154474)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-05-16 20:24:13
Already pledged support before, but I want to put my support into words now. Some things should remain fun surprises, like random rosettes! Yet issues of code not behaving as intended, or code behaving as coders intended but not communicated clearly, have caused players a lot of headaches, as well as time and currency costs sunken into projects based on inaccurate information. Having actual numbers, even if they're rounded off to be nice and neat (ie "roughly 20%" vs "19.45 to 21.86%" or w/e), would make me feel a lot more secure about untertaking certain projects. It would also empower me to be able to calculate for myself whether I'm just a victim of cruel RNG or if the RNG suggests I really should have accomplished what I was after and something might actually be off with the code/what we believe to be true about the code. I really don't see it as a cheat code or seeing into the workings of the Matrix or something like that, just being better informed on certain details that improve my enjoyment and sense of participation.



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Ramune [BO Jelly
Proj] (#46341)

Astral
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Posted on
2023-06-03 16:58:04
Support! I would also not hate to know the rates for GMO on CRB stacks, but the rest of these you've mentioned make perfect sense! (I am just biased because I have used probably over 1800 CRBs since 2015, a chunk with Lion Meats + GMOs stacked, with horrible results). I would feel so much better knowing I am indeed a victim of cruel RNG or whether or not I probably should have seen... something before now. Something something it's really not necessary at all for these rates to be revealed, but I would not at all mind knowing *how* likely it is they will stack and therefore if it's a better investment to GMO alone or CRB alone, or if the stacks are worth it. (If it's a 0.1% chance for a stack, for example, I might would do less stacks just so I can pop a GMO and go - instead of waiting the 3 days for the CRB to be ready to go. But if it's 5% even, I probably would take the extra time as I'm used to that pass rate for hybrids passing - even though mine never do .) Some people's CRB result threads seem to be wildly, *wildly* different from others and so it's always itched my brain in curiosity if I truly am cursed with terrible RNG (which would be completely fair!), or if there's some sort of underlying factor that I'm unaware of for the lionesses I'm using that makes them less productive. Again I've just been doing this for so long that half of it is a light-hearted jab at RNG - and I'm aware the chances of getting something like a dwarf, DU, or first gen tigon is ridiculously rare, but I wouldn't mind knowing the rates of getting a mutation or, if the team was feeling generous enough to share, if there's 'tiers' or something to the rarity of certain mutations and if CRBs/GMOs roll through said tiers or the % of getting mutations at all. I may very well be alone in this and that is fine! I'd be more content for the other pass rates simply for curiosity's sake. (Ie 5% for a mutation to pop from CRB, and then a following 1% if the effect triggers for it to be a 'rare' mutation)

My own obvious bias and jokes of cruelly unproductive CRB projects aside, I really like the idea for clarity's sake for combo breeding/etc. Sometimes the best way to find the errors are the people who are running through the scenarios hundreds of times a week/month. Being, of course, the players! I do love the idea of rosettes remaining a mystery (at least, as far as randoms - how they pop and what the % is for it to pop when all factors are in place).
We have the %s for things like RMAs popping which Tiers and just the clarity helps people prepare for what they're looking at for projects. If people prefer to not know, they can simply not read the information and go into it headfirst! Which would not be a bad thing either. But for those who want to know how to prepare for a potentially long project, and the % chance of something happening, *with the understanding RNG is sometimes very cruel!*, I think it would be fabulous to know.

TLDR: I think this is a wonderful idea and I would love it for clarity's sake. If there's a reason the team wants to keep them a secret, I wouldn't mind knowing why not if they're willing to share either. (Again, not counting spontaneous rosettes - I adore the surprise of random rosettes and I love that there have been so many theories and something players can work together towards trying to crack the code of) So if they're willing to reveal them, awesome! If not, I'd love to know why they can't/won't share them if possible. A tiny bit of information can go a long way!



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🦎Eli ☆
4xRos/Insence blep (#244875)

Wicked
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Posted on
2023-06-06 19:12:02
you ate and left no god damn crumbs.

The facts, examples and overall quality is fucking amazing.

Sadly, knowing the devs, I don't think this will even end up being done. even if it would make everyone's life easier.

Huge support!



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Tansy [G1 9x Bush
Olive] (#34066)

Prophet
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Posted on
2023-06-07 16:41:47
Big support! Though IMO I thought they were pretty clear about Kimanjano and Mandarin's pass rate (half what it would be normally unless one of the parents has the corresponding mutation, in which case it's normal). Though yeah, they could be more clear on how it affects the pass rate of any other Special base it's bred to.



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jester [im autistic]
☘️ | 🇵🇸 (#187561)


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Posted on
2023-06-07 16:45:22
I'd just like the numbers tbh, I'm a big numbers fan and it's much easier to say "here's a chart of how it passes!" than "it's half the rate of regular special bases." especially since it could affect other specials in breedings.



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[♰] Yharnam (#112370)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-06-13 00:19:24
I have never invested in mutie breeding because I want to know the odds.

I am not willing to sink potentially hundreds of GB into trying to pursue something that I am in the dark about.

I do not spend money at casinos IRL as they do not disclose odds, and I refuse to gamble blindly on Lion Game either.

I have no way of guaranteeing that Lioden is telling me the truth about anything, and given how much has been discovered to be broken, bugged or just flat incorrect, having these rates posted publicly would make me feel much better about any endeavors I undertake.

I have a sneaking suspicion that GMO at best raises percentage of mutation by a whopping 8% at the most and that CRB is under 0.2% or that the numbers are similarly stupid low.

Arming players with the knowledge to make an informed decision about the endeavor they are about to undertake will be a boon.

And as stated. Don't wanna know?
Cool, don't look it up!



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Edited on 13/06/23 @ 00:20:00 by [♰] Yharnam (#112370)

\ Nebula // (#434371)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2023-06-21 08:40:29
YEEESSS OMG ISTG




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🎉Twig/Ellie🎉 (#441956)

Divine
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Posted on
2023-07-24 11:08:54
Massive support! I want to get into CRB breeding but, like other people have mentioned, I'm just not willing to if I don't know the numbers.



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Ramune [BO Jelly
Proj] (#46341)

Astral
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Posted on
2023-10-06 19:07:39
As someone who spent September stacking ~85 GMOs on 85 CRBs, and using ~5 GMOs separately with the best result being a two heads, while others popped a first gen on a whim of using a single cow by itself, I also would like to double support this again. :'3 Though the only inkling I would have with that is RNG being account based vs an overall flat number as this is now bringing me close to 3800 CRBs I can account for, and then the 90 GMOs overall last month with the one lethal as a result (a deaf was the other 'rare' result).

The numbers being revealed would certainly help me decide whether or not to stack them in the first place - especially knowing what the 'rare' mutations are that are counted for stacks. If polycaudal is considered 'rare' for example, then I'd much rather not spend the three days wait time just to use a GMO!



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