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| Posted by | -ADDED TO THE GAME-Fix How Markings Roll |
 Heda Vampiric (#56702) 
Prophet View Forum Posts  Posted on 2017-08-20 20:22:04 |
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Raina Chiaki (#54236)
King of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2017-12-13 09:51:27 |
As a whole, you're absolutely right. However on my side, say I pair my lady (https://www.lioden.com/lion.php?id=794114200946) with the king of said account. For the most part, she's visually comparable. At least, until you look at her marks. I will be keeping/breeding her with my side, but not a 1 of her marks are the same, which could be a potential problem down the road. Definitively? Not at all, but still possible, so I would prefer king's marks continue to have a higher chance of passing  0 players like this post! Like? |
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Bezthiel 🍉 (#81210)
Lone Wanderer View Forum Posts Posted on 2017-12-13 10:06:30 |
Alright, but if the worst happens (marking case) and she does something like passes her piebald and none of your kings marks, you still have your king to continue breeding. You haven't lost anything except a lioness who you admittedly don't care to pass the marks of and a little time. My problem is: Say a marking comes only on a single lioness, such as happens to be the case with the special lioness weekly and can happen on groupies in May. Since it seems to be, from Heda's project thread, the comments there, other marking projects (go poke through that subforum, there are a lot of failures), and my own experience, that regardless of the slot being empty, the kings marks roll first, I don't even have the real option of breeding her to a king without any marks. What if she dies without passing that marking that exists only on her? And it does happen - I've personally gone through the lifetimes of two slot 1 marigold belly lionesses without either of them ever passing that marking. I wanted the marking badly, so I kept track - the first lioness with Royal Underfelt, the special lady, got to age 14 and never once passed that marking to a cub. She is now immortal and too old. There is a single other lioness with that marking in game, a new special lioness. Her first cub got White Bottom in the slot where her Underfelt is, hooray! Yes, that could still happen if the pass rate were 50/50, but it would happen less often. Edits for grammar-not doing great today. 0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 13/12/17 @ 10:17:19 by Bezthiel (#81210) |
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Raina Chiaki (#54236)
King of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2017-12-13 10:09:19 |
I will keep your view in mind throughout the day, and I very well may come back to change my opinion Hope I didn't come across as rude or indifferent to other's views, and that, in the end, it works out for everyone 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Bezthiel 🍉 (#81210)
Lone Wanderer View Forum Posts Posted on 2017-12-13 10:18:03 |
Not at all! Always personally want to hear the opposing viewpoint, cuz it helps everyone find a middle ground. We do all just want the breeding system to work for us, after all. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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cin☆vo h2hoe (#106573)
Sapphic View Forum Posts Posted on 2017-12-13 12:42:19 |
I agree with your points Bezthiel! "What if she dies without passing that marking that exists only on her?" The issue with male's markings rolling first is that one male can have a shit ton of cubs :P the only limit to male breeding is energy, studding slots (kinda), and territory. If one has 40 (maximum without paying GB) territory all with in heat lionesses, and sells all their slots out, they'll have between 55 and 220 cubs born in three days. Not only that, but a male's appearance can be used multiple times. Since the time I kinged my current king's appearance (he's been nonmutated, smilus, felis, and now piebald all while keeping his appearance) he's had 427 cubs. And those are just the ones that are still alive (I kill many of my children lol). Now compare to one female. (thanks to liodenhelpcentral for calculation) if a lioness comes into heat or a zebra heart is used when she is exactly 2 years old, and no items are used to shorten breeding cooldown or extend it, she can have 7 sets of cubs. For a total cub count of between 7 and 28. This is a huge difference. Yes, you could use a crunchy worm now, but that would require you to succeed with the crunchy worm and it would take a considerable amount of time because you'd have to continue to use 7 breedings per lioness and wait out the cooldowns. So yeah, that's why rolling 50/50 (or the other suggestion that was given) would make it easier to get lioness's markings and put more variety into cubs while still allowing the male the advantage of getting to breed waayy more. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Agryo [Quitting] (#70050)
View Forum Posts Posted on 2017-12-13 12:57:32 |
^ Everything I could have said has already been stated! Well, almost; felt like adding a little, apologies if it's already been noted. I'm personally more in favor of the females rolling first, but anything is better than kings having every possible advantage when it comes to breeding: we need to recall that a lioness also has a very set lifetime within which to breed: it's those 7 to 28 cubs, period. Males, however, can double that topmost number in just one week of breeding, and can do this up until their owner decides to stop stat/mutie replacing them. Because, of course, we need to remember that kings can easily get an extra four, nine, so on and so forth in-game years of breeding stacked onto their lives, because they will simply be retired and keep their looks when the new guy takes over. Lionesses, however, can only get 'extra years' so to speak if they happen to have a Crunchy Worm work on one of their litters; even then, it relies on chance, requires an investment (CWs are 15-ish GB and took a decent amount of work to get in October) and still pales in comparison to what a stud can accomplish in terms of extending the 'lifespan' of her markings and chances they'll pass. Hell, even if the user doesn't want to spend on a stat/mutie replacer, they can just king a random male cub and keep the looks, no cost. (this is only considering the 'let's keep a lion with the exact X non-mutie characteristics in the game and breeding'; I don't think I need to note that a Crunchy Worm cub is nice and all, but doesn't help much when you need those markings in combination with some the stud has.) All the odds - from increased cubs born and thus chances to pass a mark, to said lion and markings being able to exist even longer, on TOP of the markings rolling first - are all in the King's favor. Giving even a tiny bit of power to the females would be very appreciated. 0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 13/12/17 @ 12:59:07 by Agryo-ho-ho [💩 Please!] (#70050) |
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Bezthiel 🍉 (#81210)
Lone Wanderer View Forum Posts Posted on 2017-12-13 13:05:17 |
"All the odds - from increased cubs born and thus chances to pass a mark, to said lion and markings being able to exist even longer, on TOP of the markings rolling first - are all in the King's favor. Giving even a tiny bit of power to the females would be very appreciated." Yep! This is why I'd personally like to see female markings rolled first. I have literally forever to pass the markings that are on my king, no big deal there to me if even most of my cubs don't end up with them. But 50/50 is fine too, as a compromise. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Raina Chiaki (#54236)
King of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2017-12-13 13:17:35 |
If this were implemented, I would prefer to see 50/50, seems like *at least most* would be better off then. You're ladies' rare marks would have better chance of passing (at least in theory) and my side king could continue cloning himself Either way, I do think, after seeing all opinions thus far, that a change could be a good thing in the long run 0 players like this post! Like? |
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👑King: CleanFerusDracoStrip (#124858) True King View Forum Posts Posted on 2017-12-13 14:46:25 |
I think 50/50 is the best solution for all breeders. For those who want their king to have and maintain value, your king still has a good chance of passing his markings. For those who prefer lionesses' markings, she will have a good chance to pass hers too, and it helps keep raffle markings in the game, but they can hold their value and rarity by not rolling first by default. I'm having trouble seeing why it should go to either extreme really because if either one is favored, its going to acre over the other side. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Bezthiel 🍉 (#81210)
Lone Wanderer View Forum Posts Posted on 2017-12-14 06:59:35 |
"For those who want their king to have and maintain value..." Sorry, this just reminded me of a cub I recently rejected: This septa-feline 6 monster I bred that thing from an NCL just trying to get her dad's mutation. I bet it took that person with that particular king a lot of time and money to get seven! feline 6 markings onto his king. With zero thought and zero effort, I nearly exactly duplicated his king. And I want to stress, ZERO thought. I didn't even pay attention to his markings, only the mutation. If I liked feline 6, it would have been the work of no time, because I have the 10GB on hand, for me to replace my king with a replica of his, lower the price, slap on my own MoD:B&W and have an identical king that I could single-handedly crash that market with. I did the same thing I do with all my reject cubs, as it happens, and abandoned it, but that way there's no promise the person that gets her wouldn't do the same thing. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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☘ Nifur (side (#98977)
Bone Collector View Forum Posts Posted on 2017-12-14 07:38:57 |
that feline 6 is insane, and the stud price is so low for that, but looks like till now we didn't get any attention from admins yet 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Posted on 2017-12-15 10:42:15 |
Hello! I just wanted to dispel the idea that there is a heavy bias on male markings over female markings. I had a look at this topic and became concerned that there might have been an error in coding, so I spent some time dissecting the specific code that handles passing markings and it seems that there is no bias either way. To give you some evidence so that you aren't just expected to take our word for it, I created a custom male with 10x Black markings and a custom lioness with 10x Cream markings (they are both beautiful in their own special way). Out of 32 cubs: 185 markings passed in total 86 Black markings passed (~46% of total) 99 Cream markings passed (~54% of total) Obviously this is a small sample size so it's not going to be completely 50/50 but in a larger sample size I would expect it to be closer to 50% for each. Here is a Google sheet with all the attempts Dad   Mom   It seems as though suggestion A is already in place, so I will mark this topic as "Added" but if you have any further queries you're welcome to PM one of the developers (Kitty or Abbey preferably). 0 players like this post! Like? |
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raz [harley sunset] (#122024)
Merciful View Forum Posts Posted on 2017-12-15 10:46:32 |
it really doesn't feel like they're equal at all, time and time again my king clones himself onto cubs that were bred with lionesses with 5+ marks, or better yet the cub will come out with none of my kings marks OR the lioness'. i know thats just bad luck but honestly ive found it almost impossible to get anything good out of a pretty lioness unless what you're looking for is another mini king with maybe 1 or 2 different marks 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Heda Vampiric (#56702)
Prophet View Forum Posts Posted on 2017-12-15 11:57:28 |
Abbey, there has to be an explanation for the difference in results surely? Based on what you are telling me, the females got more markings passed than the males did, which is exactly the opposite of what everyone else seems to be experiencing. And what of where Thalath got their information? I've know them to be nothing but reliable, not to speak illy of either side. Just wondering where the miscommunication of facts happened. 0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 15/12/17 @ 11:59:07 by Heda RedBox (#56702) |
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Bezthiel 🍉 (#81210)
Lone Wanderer View Forum Posts Posted on 2017-12-15 12:11:35 |
Sorry, I just cannot trust a sample size of 32, so I'm in the process of rolling at least 600 cubs to check. I'm only bothering with the slot 1, rolled between my king and this female. If you'd like, you can check my progress here. So far I'm getting: Feline 1 Auburn = 33/100 = 33% Marigold Belly = 26/100 = 26% Empty Slot = 41/100 = 41% And while the 26% and 33% aren't hugely varying (that could come closer together once I'm done, in fact, but still gives an edge to the males currently), the glaring problem is the fail rate of passing markings. Which definitely is more detrimental to females who can only produce between (remember!) 7 and 28 cubs in their lifetimes. 32 is already more cubs than a female can naturally produce, even if I don't actually trust such a small sample. Males can produce loads more, so the fail chances are of little problem to them. Looks like though, even if the roll is 50/50 already, a lot of problems would be solved by upping the pass rate of female markings. They have such limited time to do it already. I don't see how raffle markings disappearing basically the moment they're released can possibly be intended. 0 players like this post! Like? |
