Not to sound dumb but what is a reverse breeding?

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I haven't read through everything so this may have already been suggested.

What i was thinking is to have the option to allow another user to access your lioness to complete a breeding. With the lioness remaining on your account. They would only be able to access things related to breeding, Breeding Items, Nesting, Cub Delivery, Cub Aging etc. They could be used from the users inventory or applied like a normal studding.

You would be disabled from breeding your lioness or accessing her cubs until the breeding is complete or has been cancelled.

Not sure how the cubs would be handled.
Auto transfer once weaned/aged up.
Asign them to a broodmother, once born they transfer to her care instead of the mothers.


Something like this...

Alt Image link, if you cannot see the stash image above click the link for the image.

The user who has been granted permission to do the breeding would now see the options on the lioness's page to apply breeding items, asign a broodmother and breed her to their king.

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I really like Lady Argent's addition to the love shack idea.

but what if someone doesnt get online to choose their cub? Should there be a timer set between each cub selection (like, say i choose cub A, my partner chooses cub B, i choose cub C, but now they arent getting back online to get cub D.) should there be like a 2-3 day timer set up, and after the timer, remaining cubs get randomly split between the two people? (Like cub D would have a 50/50 chance to go to me or my partner)

And this probably isnt a good idea, but its still an idea - but what about after the timer, since my partner fails to choose their cub/s, the timer ends and the remaining cubs go to me? (like, if person A chooses a cub from a 4 cub litter, but person B never does and the timer runs out, person A gets all 4 cubs since person B made the decision to not choose)

But with the timer, the cubs should also be frozen while in the shack so they dont age. If theres a 2 day timer, and each person takes almost the 2 days (so doesnt choose until right before time is up) on a 4 cub litter.. Those cubs are gonna be adols by the time they get sent home..so what about they can age up to be 5, but then are frozen until they get sent to their prides?

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I really like Talmoi’s idea! But maybe there could be options for split litter//buyer keeps all?

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I think maybe you should be able to lay with items too? I sell a lot of hybrid heats and I have never sold one for pure currency, I like the idea of there being an offering system?

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On one of the other petsite games I play, there is a reverse breed option where you can choose who the cubs go to, there's either mother, father, or ID#

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I don't quite have an idea on what the whole system should be like, but I thought I should address some things that have been said

I personally heavily disagree with the people saying "split litter" shouldn't be an option.
reverse breedings will almost always be with dwarves/hybrids with the rule of "if more than one is born...."

I feel it should most definitely be an option, as per people like me who would want to give free//cheap reverse breedings to their 1st gens, on the condition of if there's more than one gon, both users get one.

My other concern with some of the ideas being tossed around is the idea that its like "pay this amount to breed",, lots of people pay with items or lions rather than pure currency
Maybe make it more like a stud request, but they could offer items // a mix based on a list you have personally checked to be acceptable ?
So if you have like, crunchy worms / buffalo scrotums / gnawrocks as a thing that could be payed with, they could do a mix of those, rather than just being able to ask with any items (i.e amusement, food)

Just my ideas, sort of.
Not sure if any of that had been mentioned before, I basically just skimmed throughout the comments .

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If split litters was introduced to male studding as well then it would make sense rly, I don't hate the idea it just sounds messy as it is now. We also don't know weather the complexity would be to unreasonable system wise, thats still an issue to try thinking of a way around

Additionally, reverse studding only happens now as a thing mainly for muties and hybrid owners because it is an extreme method of breeding and needs a real reason to motivate doing it. But if this becomes a system, majority of reverse studding's will be normal lionesses.
If it is the case of normal lionesses en mass, is it possible split litters become a problem for the market as rather than mutes being fairly split, all sorts of traits would become 'controlled' simply because they're the lioness or lion owners favorite things?


Mixing items in is something I feel really should be added to all breeding be it lion or lioness tbh. We can pay for raffle tickets via items selected by the host, surely that same idea can be applied to studding?

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I definitely agree that my main concern for the split litters is whether the system will be able to handle it efficiently, with few bugs, and that it'll wind up fair. That being said, everyone is also missing a third major reverse studding: raffle lionesses. While some winners of the girl do sell, most sell her heats, and those marks are spread by people who reverse stud for those cubs. Since raffle lionesses are how new raffle marks are introduced, reverse studding is a major way of getting new marks spread to the site.

Split litters is also not uncommon in raffle lioness heats, and they are normal lionesses with desirable traits. Whatever system we work out can't be based around hybrid and mutie heats, as those won't be the vast majority of heats if this becomes a true system in the game, rather than a promise-based transaction. We need to make a system (as a community, of course) that will work for any lioness, and I think for that we might want to steer more towards looking at raffle ladies as examples.

I've been using currency as examples mostly because, again, most of the studdings won't be hybrids, who are worth breeding items, but. That said, I do support items being used as currency in both male studding and this theoretical female studding. A list of items similar to a raffle, but maybe easier to navigate would be extremely handy for highly valuable studs and girls.

Edit: I just woke up, so I have no idea how much of this made sense...we'll see if I can decipher myself later after some tea.

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I think a cool idea for taking items as currency would be like using the system from raffles, having the lioness's owner select the items they would accept as payment and mb how much of that stuff.

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btoth12789, a reverse breeding happens when another player wishes their king to breed with someone else's lioness. Instead of having the lioness's owner pay the Stud Fee for breeding with the King, the lioness is traded for the breeding and is then returned either after the breeding and the cubs are sent to the breeder after they are weaned, or after the cubs are born and weaned.

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So, I haven't done reverse breedings myself but from what I've seen and heard and from a game design perspective i have some ideas... First of all, I think that it should mimic the regular breeding system. If looking at things that are already implemented in the game:
1)I like the idea of having "Queens" maybe they would be slots the same way Submales are. A queen can have a studding setup similar to kings, with a description and what the queen's player is looking for in terms of payment. I'm also wondering if queens should have the same heat length and cooldown period as regular lionesses?

2) The options to donate items on top of SB/GB options seems to be important. Similar to how you can submit offers for a trade.

3) For the rollover question, I think that the cubs shouldn't "register" on the queen, but instead, appear on the king's page as "inverse breeding cubs in progress". It takes away from the realism, but seems to be the most reliable, since that is the way it is with normal breedings (the person who pays is responsible for the rollover)

4) The toughest problem, in my opinion, is the splitting cubs part. I think that having an "all cubs go to king" option is important but so is the "splitting cubs". In that case, both parties need to have trust in each other to set up the trade. A possible solution, since cubs are generated when the studding happens and not on birth, is to have the cubs split automatically before birth(if uneven number the payer gets +1?) if there can be an algorithm that determines what cubs have mutations, orders them in the same way as rolling order for the mutations(i.e. if a pon and a primal cubs are born the king gets the pon and the queen gets the primal) That would remove the human factor and if the breeders want to trade afterward they can do that outside of the reverse breeding system.

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Astarcloud: While I agree with most of your points, I think limiting reverse breeding to single queen (or even queen slots or something) is a really bad idea. Mostly because it will result in traditional reverse breeding remaining a big thing. After all: some players have multiple pons/gons, or have bought multiple raffle girls. If they have to only choose 1 of them to be eligible for this system, any other heats they sell will be reverse breeds done traditionally. That means if they get scammed/scam others, we're right back into the problem we have now, where the breeding isn't covered.
I suppose my issue is that 'queen slots' would have to be pretty expensive, and if we don't do slots and only get one 'queen' per pride, then it won't solve many problems.

The rest of your points are well received, and while I prefer the 'love shack'/other location idea, I wouldn't be unhappy with the rest of it at all.

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I believe that there should be a kind of “Reverse breeding list” where you would put the ID of the person, and their name would be added to a list! If someone’s ID is on the list, they would be able to stud to that girl without problems (sending in the SB/GB of course. And having a max of two cubs being sent (in the case that there were 4 born))

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An idea for cub splits: Programmatically, there's no reason the system can't roll the cubs/traits immediately upon breeding. So upon both parties agreeing to the breeding, each gets a message saying what the outcome will be with #cubs and cub stats. For each cub, each player can enter a preference (Take, Pass). If there's a choice match (either Pass/Pass or Take/Take) the players get a warning to re-enter preference for each cub to resolve it. If they are still matched by the day of the birth, the game chooses who gets the disputed cub(s), making sure to split the litter evenly if > 1 cubs are disputed.

A modification of this could be to award a new type of karma (Selflessness?) for each reverse-bred cub you pass on. Then disputed cubs would be weighted by the player's Selflessness; so that the more cubs you Pass on the more likely you are to Take in a dispute. This would be useful to hybrid breeders who will pass on pretty much every non-hybrid cub; they'll end up almost guaranteed to Take if there's a dispute when they finally do get a hybrid.

A system like this would also alleviate the concern of a player disappearing immediately after the breeding. If they don't act on the conflict notifications the entire pregnancy time, all disputed cubs go to the player who DID respond by re-entering a Pass/Take choice.

Also, this automation doesn't prevent players from having chats and mutually agreeing on any other type of split (dam take all, sire take all, first choice, etc).

Finally, this system would make use of existing game mechanics (karma, trade) to hopefully reduce coding burden.

Whew that was more than just my 2 cents! I enjoy developing coding algorithms way too much. Thanks for bearing with me if you read all the way!

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