I read through the suggestion and to be honest, it does sound like mane muts with a few extra steps. I feel like the additional effects involving patrolling and hunting are a bit complicated compared to other mutations onsite. I'm also going to point out that this sounds similar to the various "intersex lions" suggestions that have been created in the past which were understandably never accepted gracefully by the community.

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I do have the same opinion as Guillo, this suggestion sounds very familliar like the rejected 'intersex' suggestions.
Also don't have maned lionesses generally more testosterone than non-maned lionesses irl? So if this somehow gets added into the game, it's weird if only one single maned type is affected by this. Just a thought of myself, I'm no expert on this field.

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The reason why mane muts exist (to my understanding), is because of this kind of mutation, as it's really the only way for lionesses to get manes in the wild. So unless this affected all existing mane muts (which I don't think it should, anyways), it would be kind of redundant. As Guillo said, it's just mane mut with extra steps.

Also, a few qualms I have with the changes you're suggesting if this Does get added:
- You said right at the beginning that they have tendencies of killing cubs. So, why would they be allowed to protect more cubs than a regular lioness?
- Why would they get higher chances of items in patrolling over and ACTUAL male?

TLDR: though it's a well thought out suggestion, mane muts already exist and lioden chose to not make them more complex for a reason.

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I have read those 'intersex' topics and I can understand how you think theyre similar, although I would like to focus more on the interactive effect of this 'version'.

One single mane type? Are you referring to the multiple we have already and just singling one out or? Im a bit confused by what youre trying to say. Im no expert either, just throwing an idea around~

The cub killing is some of the traits observers have seen in real life. Lionesses didnt kill cubs in their own pride but rather when a neighboring pride stole food, the maned lionesses retaliated and killed some of their cubs. No matter if this happens in RL or not, this obviously wouldnt be considered to be added as a part of the suggestion.

Although the ideas is similar to the mane mutations we have, I think calling it more like a behavioral mutation like Ticklicous [DirtyCrested] (#490) mentioned today, is a better nickname to call it more so than a 'mane' mutation. Ultimately, the lioness grows a small mane due to the increase of male hormones in her body/dna. I hope this makes sense?

Thank you for your input!

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blueberry, I apologize, I totally just read pass your patrolling question. The high chance of find 'items' would be mainly directed at food due to the natural instinct of hunting combined with her ability to hunt with the pride as well, she would be a better hunter when patrolling compared to a sub-male.

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No support. Yes, you can get messed up hormones with pesticides, atrazine, mercury, etc but it's not something you would see in the wild under normal circumstances.

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While I favor more realistic attributes of a game as well, there quite a bit of things that are unrealistic here on the site..
Pesticides (&more) have never been suspected as leading contributors to this mutation, but thank you for your input!

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Regardless of my stand on this, I can't see this getting implemented because there aren't any mutations that affect so many behavioral aspects and its a pretty big change to implement in one random mutation. I'd also like to say that what Tharkenta mentioned about 'one single mane type' is in reference to this. Why would only one specific mane mutation (because regardless of your intentions that's really all it is) be affected in this manner and not other, like mane succubus for example, which you could say has more testosterone since it has such a long mane. Even if you want this to be behavioral, this would be better suited to be a change made to existing mane muts rather than adding in a new one that randomly has these effects.
And as I mentioned before, mane muts exist precisely because of these hormone imbalances that are found in nature. They decided to not give them extra restrictions when they were added, so I really don't see why they would now

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As far as I understood this suggestion, seglid wants one new mane mutation that has the proposed behaviors. This would basically a 'superior' mutation to the already existing mane mutations we already have, since the existing ones are just cosmetic.
If this suggestions is for changing all existing mane mutations to have the behavior listed in the first post, it would make things unnecessary comlicated in my oppinion. The are existing since years, why change them now?
Just like Takoyaki said, it would better for a female-only personality type, than a mutation.

Edit: spelling

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Im not the smartest, oldest, or wisest but I don't think they're sayings its *Just* a mane mutation... It would be like the primals (ferus) to me, The female primals often time look VERY masculine.. So from my understanding it would be like the primal mutation but with more features such as patrolling and acting like a male..

Sorry if that doesn't make sense I'm not good at being intelligent

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I at least understand what their point is, but the fact is that mane muts that we already have were made because of that increase of testosterone. Therefore, adding a mutation that is essentially the same thing (though perhaps with lineart changes and the gameplay chances) seems redundant and unnecessary.

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I have made some changes to the idea and other content. I understand where you all stand which is perfectly fine, but always looking for more reactions/feedback doesnt hurt~

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I want to point out that you misinterpreted one of my comments. I'm not saying that adding more mutations is redundant or unnecessary. I'm saying adding entire line art changes to a single mane mut is redundant. There's no reason why ONE mutation of the same variety should have entirely different lineart while the others just have add-ons, if that makes sense.

In the edits you mention it being simular to primal and its variations (which is a fair comparison ig), but as I've mentioned. No other mutation has all of those game play aspects (most don't even have one and are purely visual). Also, now that you compare it to the primal variants, I have to say it really is just a weird mashup of primal variants and mane muts, except they both have what you want (except all the behavioral aspects because that's unrealistic). Some female primal variants have that bit of "extra mane" (especially since you mentioned you wanted the mane to be small and not succubus levels), as well as the entire lineart changes to be more muscular and the stat boosts (i think, but correct me if im wrong). You also haven't even addressed how you want the mane/lineart to look for it to really stand out from the existing mutations (you obviously don't have to have a mockup but at least a description beyond muscular would be nice), because so far the only thing that makes it stand out are the patrolling/broodmother elements.

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I gotcha, I will change that!

I havent addressed the lineart because I was waiting on possible feedback about that topic that would help me as well as I just dont have the time right now. Im slowly working on certain aspects. If you would like a small description of what I have in mind:
- broader chest/shoulders (if feasible)
- no change to face
- small mane across the lower portion of the neck, the highest line going to right below the jaw
- and some smaller details in the works

When you said "weird mashup of primal variants and mane muts", this confuses me a bit because there isnt anything primal like variants in this mutation? The thing that I feel makes it stick out is precisely the patrolling/broodmother elements. Lioden only has a handful where a lioness simple cant hunt, or a submale cant be kinged, while this mutation has an effect on something in-game thats not completely random; lionesses in the wild have been seen with these role changes/effects.

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When I say "weird mashup" I'm talking about lineart It really sounds like you just want primal ferus or felis, but maybe with a longer tail? Considering as they both leave the face mainly unchanged, have the additional mane you want and the extra muscle/broader shoulders. While I am aware that in the wild lionesses have these things, it's not feasible for the game. What you're asking is for this mut to make a lioness super OP. If they wanted a lioness to have all of this, they could've done so with primals (who clearly have a ton more muscle than even male lions), mane muts (who are based precisely on what you're describing in this thread) or hybrids (who, based on their flavor text, are stronger than normal lions). In fact, all mutations that affect gameplay have much more in regards to limitations than benefits. All your examples (in actual in-game mutations) have been of disadvantages (not being able to hunt, patrol or be kinged), while you want almost the complete opposite. You want a lioness that is able to hunt, patrol, AND make an excellent broodmother. If anything, I'd say this could be more suited as a personality type where it would allow the lioness to patrol, without changing anything else (maybe mane mut exclusive personality type?)

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