We are not causing an issue. We're voicing our opinion on what could stand to be changed in the appropriate channel. That's hardly out of bound.

The suggestion is here to try to make something happen in the first place. The big guys can't know what their player base wants if we sit here and stew in silence. Reports go to the mods and won't always reach said big guys. I don't even know if we know reporting works — if it did, I reckon, those trades would be gone.

If you want something to happen, you gotta talk about and reach an audience.

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Reporting does work. It is something that takes a team to come to a desicion about.

And what you are wanting is to have something that is based around trading Outlawed and moved from TC. Once that happens, and i will say this again, others will see that if they get enough supports then they can have anything done. Finally choice is on the mods.

I still do not support, will never support this. Because I have seen one to many times where things have been changed and then they are not liked. And once that happens, it is hard to reverse changes. You may have over 200 supports but in a game where there is over 200k members. I am not sure how what lioden will do. This might have to get well over 1k supports to even be looked at.

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Why is it a bad thing that people realize they can have an influence on a game they enjoy and, very possibly, give money to? Good ideas and popular sentiments will be supported. Silly and ineffective suggestions will be not supported. That's how it is, and it's not a bad thing. The admins won't implement something blatantly and objectively bad.

Apparently other similar games have rules restricting the paperclip stuff. Popular sentiment agrees Lioden should follow suit. 200 supports drowns out the 30-some nos.

I don't understand your argument.

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I don't support this because it honestly wants to get rid of something that is so much based around trading. These types of trades do not affect everyone. If you don't like them, report the trades. If they are found in violation of something, they will be removed and the owner talked to about them. But if they are not found to be in violation, you are basically going to punish someone for trading. Something that every one says they are trying not to do. They want them moved from TC to somewhere in the forums because people say they are a "Game". They are a trading game, a game based around nothing but trading. If you don't like the trades, report and move one. Because honestly, I find so many trades ridiculous. Some of those trades are the SB to GB trades, where someone wants 1 gb for 800 sb or 1 gb for 700 sb. Normally I ignore those trades UNLESS i need SB so bad that I buy a couple of those trades. The feeling of wanting to have 1 SB trades removed from TC stems from the need to put a value higher than 1 sb on every item in this game. There are items that are worth only 1 SB in monkey business (when sold to them) but are you complaining about that, no because you know that that is something already set in place. That item has a set value. If a player wants to offer a 5 gb item on a trade that is only worth 1 GB. then that is on the player who is offering.

yes the supports do out number the no supporters but that is by players who don't like the clutter of things. Honestly, i have no problem with TC. I search for certain things and if i don't like whats offered, i move on. if i see something that is against the rules (example: Proof Trades) I report those trades. I then move on with my game. It is not hard to do. Everyone says these types of trades are against the rules, then report them. Don't make a topic to try and get them Outlawed. This suggestion is calling for them to be banned. Which is what i have a problem with.

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I think reporting doesn't work here... because there is no solid rule on it ... which is what this suggestion wants to implement. The rule in coc is a little vague in this scenario and could stand to be clarified and expanded.

Yeah, people can offer whatever diddly lil thing they want, and that is, in fact, on them. That's not really the point. The point is removing jokes from a part of the game about trading. The paperclip stuff again has been apparently decided to be veiled begging on other games, and I don't see why Lioden shouldn't follow suit. I honestly don't even want it fully banned. Just out of trading center.

The SB to GB trades... have an obvious purpose? They cannot be fairly compared to people playing jokes and games at all. People need to turn their silver into gold and vice versa, and dammit, I'm broke, I need to buy SB sometimes. 700/800 SB is a little sad but it can fairly reflect the current economy.

I don't get what you're saying with how "the supports are by players who don't like the clutter." Is that supposed to be some kind of gotcha? I don't think it matters why people support. It's valid. We all have our reasons, yours included.

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Let me ask you this one thing. Why should Lioden follow other games? Lioden has only two games to their name. Lioden and Wolvden. They do not need to follow other games. They can choose to allow these because they have not broken any rules, nor have they been deemed begging, scams or spam.

Another thing. About the hole once one thing is done people will ask for more. here are some examples of what i mean:
1. Because then they will start to ask for more and more. Never drawing the line lion.
2. Once one thing is influenced then another will be. Example: Markings/Bases/Storylines.
3. Lets not forget the whole thing with a couple of the storylines. They were changed because the mods were influenced by players to change them.
4. Lioden mods were influenced to add items into months that didn't have them because people begged.
5. Lioden had to stop allowing Community Members to design the Raffle Lioness because they felt that they were entitled to things.
6. Lioden members have decided that they had the right to demand Raffle Lioness winner's to sell them the RL because they wanted it. And lioden had to make it where your pms were closed to others if you won the RL.

These are only 6 examples but if you would like more then I can find more examples. The ones from the past few years are: Brawl marking and July Storyline. The image blocker had to be added after Brawl was added because of the backlash Lioden got for the marking.

Shall i continue or would you like me to stop. Since those all started with a suggestion like this, and then it got out of hand.

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suggestions have been around for years, suggestions like these ones have been approved. so i assure you banning borderline begging is not gonna make anyone go power hungry over lioden lol.
markings, bases, and storylines have already been influenced. an example being the haliotis suggestion that was approved the next day because enough members disliked it.
i dont think lioden listening to players should be a bad thing. esp with how big it is getting. community feedback is incredibly important to the community and keeps games strong because players feel listened to.
if lioden felt like adding those items to circulation would affect them negatively, they wouldn't have done it in the first place.
brawl caused seizures. the uproar was that it caused seizures for certain players. and even then it wasnt removed and given an image blocker for players who didn't want to see the marking. it does not affect anyone elses game, and you can still seee the markings if you wish.


there have been a lot of cases where lioden has listened to its playerbase when they were upset about something.

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But asking for something that is not begging or scamming. Yes it might be spam but with out them being reported there is nothing that can be done.

These are all based around Trading, which is the point of the TC. You are wanting that removed from the TC, then would you think that the In Search of or the trades wanting the new Raffle Lioness should also be removed from TC.

What about the GB sales in TC, we have a GB sales in Oasis. Wouldn't those better be off the TC.

What about items being sold in TC, we have Branches for that reason.

You can't control how a player, plays their game. Moving things from the TC to Forums regarding something that is based around Trades is where I am having the problem. You say that they are begging, then report the trades that beg. Those trades will be removed eventually.

And I don't believe Lioden should follow in the foot steps of other games that they have nothing to do with. We can't even trade between the games owned by lioden. Its a rule, which I think is crazy. But I understand it.

I also think that the way the thread was made and nothing has been put into the main post about anything, is another reason I am having a problem with this trade.

Most suggestions take both the positive and the negitive and put points on pros and cons, this suggestion, players have to read what others have stated (currently 8 pages) and then they can voice their thoughts on the matter. But most players only read the main post then make their reply.

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lmao I don't blame the creator for backing off from the dumpster fire of a thread. They're valid as hell, they don't gotta hurt themselves adding to their main post

You say that reporting is the only thing we can do, but that is. Clearly wrong. We can post here and discuss it and maybe someone big will hear us. I get the feeling you just want us to be quiet with our different opinions and go away. We can talk about it, and that's a very valid option along with reporting. Maybe reporting doesn't do anything because there isn't a rule that applies to the paperclip challenge. There not being a rule doesn't mean it's not begging or scammy; it just means the current rules don't stretch enough to apply.

It's not about trades asking for things and offering a fair value. People looking to buy raffle lionesses know what they're getting into and offer a very fair value. GB sales only go one way, and it's less known about than trading center, and it's still fair because it's a, well, fair trade. Items are of course allowed on trading center, it's trading. You can't offer on branches.

You're making comparisons to try to make your point, but I think they're irrelevant to the point of this thread, really.

We can't control what folks do. We just play this silly pixel lion game. Controlling people ain't the point. We want adjustments to the rules that similar pet sims. They aren't officially connected, sure. But they're similar pet sims with arguably fair rules on paperclip trades. I assume those pet sims haven't had mad issues with implementing paperclip trade restrictions either.

Anyway, I'm done right now. We're just going in circles and getting nowhere.

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Other Sims may have implemented this type of rule against it. But seeing as Lioden has a set rule on what Scamming, Spamming and Begging is. I do not believe adding in a rule to keep these types of Trades out of the TC should happen. Seeing as they are still trades, they should be allowed in the TC. Maybe if it was agreed on what type of wording is in the Looking For Area of a trade, and what can and can't be placed there. Like "Give me black (worth 10x more) for 1 sb" then I would be ok with it. That can be reported, as it is begging. But seeing as currently this thread is about removing those types of trades all together, then no, i can't support this. Seeing as some have stated nothing on Lioden is worth 1 SB. It has been stated there are Items worth that. Pet Rocks are worth 0 SB when sold to the Monkey in Monkey Business.

Lioden is player based in their economy. Only certain items have been placed in a set price by the creators themselves. And even then, there are places that you have to have a minimum. But to try and control what a player sets up a trade for, or how they go about their trades is wrong. Players who think they should be able to control the market and prices items are set at, truly have a problem with how Lioden has always worked.

EDIT: Here are some items that are worth 1 SB if you sell to the Monkey in Monkey Business.
Archer's Buzzard Feather
Blue Diadem Caterpillar [1]
Coffee Locust [1]
Glossy Ibis Feather
Hyrax Skull
Large Leaves
Large Rock
Phantom Quartz
Small Bird Carcass
Stag Beetle [1]
Underbrush

And these are just items I own myself. I am sure there are more. And i know for a fact that Pet Rock is worth 0 SB. So trying to say that there is nothing on Lioden that is worth literally 1 Sb is false and a lie.

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Lioden is indeed a player-based economy. Which is why items tend to sell far higher than what you see them for in the various non-player shops that have pricing on items if you were looking to buy them. Because while you can sell them to Monkey Business for 1, you can't buy them for 1 from Monkey Business.

Large Leaves and Large Rocks are often sought after by new players so that they can make a cave. But they can also be used for various other recipes driving their price up.

Small Bird Carcass is a Food Item. And possibly a Quest Item for the Snake.

Pet Rock is a used in a crafting recipe.

You get the idea, I'm not going to list the reason all the items are worth more than 1.

I'll argue that using Game Set pricing isn't the best thing to reference when buying/selling from other players. After all, there was a to converter in the Oasis once. You could get a whole 100s for 1. It stayed up even after the standard to rate hit 1.2k for 1.

Now, I'm not saying that Game Set pricing is wrong, I'm just saying it doesn't mesh with a Player-Controlled market.

And I think that's one of the issues many people have with this whole...thing. Players are asking for expensive items for 1. When you really can't buy anything for it.
You can sell things for 1 to Monkey Business, sure, but you can't buy them for 1 from Monkey Business. And you'll rarely, if ever, find something for 1 on the player-controlled market that people aren't wanting to just throw out (NCLs, Explore Items, etc..).

I get the concept of a trade-up game, I really do. But the majority of these trades state that they will not accept an offer unless it's worth more than what they have listed. And I have an issue with that.

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But to have these types of things moved to Forums, will just clutter the forums next, resulting in a new thread asking for those to be out right banned. Which then gets into my point of once this happens, were does the line stop next?

We can't ask for a minimum value to be put into place because we can't just set a minimum value. Its like asking for players to only value a item or lion at a set value. Example here is going to be Buffalo Scrotums. In Feb they were valued between 6-10 GB. Very high spread in value. But outside of Feb, they can go all the way up to 25 GB or even 30 GB. So, I am having a problem with removing a type of trade from the TC just because you feel it is one thing or another.

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Kit in a Box made the exact point that I was about to make. We can't always trust the game's own economy; quite often it's bizarre, and doesn't make sense. If we want to use set prices in game to determine an items value, then I guess lion meat, which costs 300MT, is more valuable than any of the Gorilla Applicators, which cost 50MT less? It doesn't work like that. It's ALWAYS been a player economy, where players determine the value of the items within it. Upon a quick look, the cheapest pet rock available for sale in both branches and TC is 100sb, which is way more than the 0sb MB price you were basing it on.

And... Aren't you contradicting yourself? The original point the OP made was that it clutters TC, and you're trying to defend them not being banned from TC, because if it's moved to the forums, it will... Clutter them? I'm sorry, am I the only one confused here?

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@Kit in a Box

You've literally contradicted yourself though. You touch on that Lioden is a player-based economy that makes use of subjective value, but then go on to assert that certain things are worth a certain amount and ignore subjective value entirely.

Lioden has a player-based economy, which therefore means subjective value is present.

As an example, let's say I have a Spicy Ice App (lowest on branches atm is 12gb), and you have a Hyena Heavy Blot App (lowest atm is 1gb). If I really wanted that hyena blot app, I would probably trade the Spicy Ice App for it if I didn't want to use gb, since I hate the Ice base. And you'd probably accept because Ice is used in lots of combos and is worth a lot *to other people*.

That's the whole point. You *cannot* assert that values in trades are unfair because of subjective value. I've paid lots of gb for what most people consider ugly lions, because to me, they're exactly what I'm looking for, and have sold very valuable lions for cheap because I didn't like them and wanted them gone. Policing trades is just simply not the way to go about this.

I think a more widely useful addition (and also prevention method for future similar issues) would be to put a filter in the basic category of the TC. Any sort of banning trades, or restricting them is unnecessary and against the entire point of a player-based economy.

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The TC is currently Cluttered with trades that have been put up over 20 Days ago. We also have trades that don't have buyouts and the player just stops rolling over. So that trade is never accepted and just sits for the 30 days it takes to expire.

But the point is to fully remove 1 SB type trades. And put them in the forum. Which currently is also cluttered with threads because of the new Sales Chat rule. 1 add per 10 minutes, and Lioden Suggested you to make a thread in "Stockpile" to be able to have all trades linked in one thread and post that thread every 10 minutes.

But I do not see that it is right for those "TRADES" (since they are trades) to be removed for the TC. As the Trade Center is a TRADING Center to be able to trade anything and everything.

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