Posted by Missing Limb (NCL Exclusive Mutation)

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vernal aufeis (#166009)


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Posted on
2023-03-23 23:49:18
Small edit: If you don't support this thread, please consider commenting why so I can improve/learn for future ideas! I worked really hard on this and it's a bit discouraging to see a mass of "no support"s without any reason given.

Hey everyone! I’ve been sitting on this idea for a while and wanted to share it with the community. I realise not everyone will support this idea, but I’ve put a lot of thought into it, and would appreciate it if you took the time to read my post in full before choosing to not support. I appreciate any and all constructive feedback and hope you enjoy the read!

Introduction:
Mutated NCL’s have been a hotly-debated topic on Lioden for as long as I can remember. Many users have posted suggestions about mutie and submale claiming, with the most common suggestion being the option to chase lionesses without wiping their mutation (meaning players would be able to claim chased muties with their mutation intact). This idea has been met with reluctance by the majority of the community, and for good reasons. Being able to claim mutated lions would break the mutie market by making them easier to obtain. A chased piebald NCL is, in effect, a free heritageless mutie, and introducing them into explore would make them more common, and consequently, less valuable. This is a valid concern that I 100% agree with. However, I also see the appeal of being able to claim a mutated lioness; it’s exciting, adds flavour, and makes muties accessible to more users. Considering both these perspectives, I’d like to propose a solution: a brand new, NCL-exclusive mutation, that can ONLY be obtained through claiming.

Missing Limb:
"You encounter a lone lioness. You realise there’s something not quite right about her. She lurches when she walks, and as you move closer, you notice she seems to be holding one paw off the ground. No, not quite… her paw is missing!"

Missing Limb is an NCL-exclusive mutation where a lioness is missing one leg/paw. The mutation can be obtained in Explore, by claiming a lioness with the mutation. This Explore encounter would have special text, like the Lioness quest (i.e. a generic NCL encounter couldn’t give you a Missing Limb lioness), and the chances of this encounter appearing would be extremely low. I also think that this encounter would only be available to Dreamboat kings, much like chased lionesses. Lionesses with the Missing Limb mutation cannot hunt, and like other mutations that cause disabilities, they stand a chance of dying before they turn 14.

How do I obtain a lioness with the Missing Limb mutation?
Missing Limb is a unique mutation in that it can ONLY be obtained one of two ways:
1. By claiming a lioness in the special Missing Limb Lioness explore encounter.
2. By using a Lion Scrotum on a lioness with the Missing Limb mutation.
Without a Lion Scrotum, it is not heritable. It also cannot be randomly bred from two parents who do not have the mutation, even with items such as a GMO cow. My aim with this is to make it a truly NCL-exclusive mutation, and to make sure Missing Limb breeding stays focused on NCL’s and their direct descendents.

Can chased lionesses have this mutation?
No! While you could make the argument that a lioness could lose her limb in an accident after being chased, injuries and mutations are different things. To keep in line with existing Lioden mutations, I feel like it would be best to assume the lioness was born with it. Also, it feels a bit unfair for a lioness you chased to pop back into existence with a clean heritage and a mutation.

Art:
Like most mutations on Lioden, I would propose that Missing Limb has art for all cub and adolescent stages, including male and female lions (since male cubs could technically inherit the mutation from a female using a Lion Scrotum). To minimise the load on the artist team, I would suggest it just be a retexturing of the existing lineart (i.e. the standard adolescent pose with one paw removed).

Anticipating some issues:
(AKA the section where I address things I've seen on other suggestion threads)

Making a NCL mutation will break the mutie market.
Not necessarily if it’s a new mutation! Missing Limb might end up selling for slightly cheaper than other mutations because it’s claimable in Explore, but that won’t impact the sale rate of other first generation muties. In my mind, it would be comparable to NCL-exclusive special bases like Dhabhabi and Maziwa.

Mutations are meant to be worked for, not just handed over. Making a NCL mutation makes mutations in general less special.
This is a valid opinion to have! Personally, I don’t think that this will necessarily happen. We also have NCL-exclusive special bases, and I don’t feel that they have devalued special bases as a whole. Maziwa and Dhabhabi don’t sell as well as other special bases, but they haven’t made special bases themselves less valuable. I also think that making this mutation impossible to pass or breed randomly will keep it valuable and exciting.

What’s the point of a mutation existing if it’s hard to get and can barely pass?
It’s for fun! Having muties is awesome, and I think this would be a great starting point for new players and players who don’t have lots of currency. Also, plenty of non-passable mutations are loved and celebrated in Lioden: mane muts are my personal favourite, and the majority of them aren’t heritable! In terms of obtaining one, I thought making them very rare/hard to get would compensate for the fact that they can be obtained without currency. If anyone has a better idea, I’d love to hear it!

Why did you choose Missing Limb for this?
I couldn't find it in the approved mutations masterpost, and also, I thought it would be thematically fun to explore! A young lioness born with only three legs, thrown out of her birth pride after she failed to keep up with the other huntresses. Will she be welcomed into her new pride, or will your king show her the same unkindness the rest of the world has shown her?

Closing:
When you get down to it, this suggestion is pitching two concepts: missing limbs as a mutation, and a mechanic for NCL exclusive mutations. If you think this mechanic would work better for a different mutation - either one that’s been suggested/approved or a totally new one - I’d love to hear more! If nothing else, I thought it would be really fun to speculate what a NCL mutation might look like.

Thanks for taking the time to read my thread, and please share your thoughts and feedback.



This suggestion has 197 supports and 33 NO supports.



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Edited on 24/03/23 @ 01:46:33 by haiku 🌸🌈 pink echo pie (#166009)

Corruptedhyena (#243378)


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Posted on
2023-03-27 18:02:45
yes thx but i want to know if there is a specific case they are talking about (im just nosy and interested XD)



also my other issue is that lions would not survive with a missing limb at all. I personally think this would be rather a letahl mutation. This is my only reason for no support



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🤎 leon (#208511)


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Posted on
2023-03-27 18:05:24
I don't see why they wouldn't! There's a National Geographic article all about wild animals with three legs, although I don't want to give them my email to read it all.

A lot of animals adapt very well to being a tripod, especially if they're born with it, and especially in a fantasy world where they have a pride to look after them.



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Corruptedhyena (#243378)


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Posted on
2023-03-27 18:07:04
lions have to hunt. if they cant hunt they cant survive and while lions are social animals, they will get left out from the pride. Perhaps other animals can survive with legs but lions defiantely can not. Hunting is hard for lions who have all legs and there is no way a wild lion would be able to keep up with prey and then have the strength and balance to actually take it down



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🤎 leon (#208511)


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Posted on
2023-03-27 18:09:43
I appreciate that you're looking at the realism, but we have other mutations that can't hunt, and they're not lethals that die and get kicked out.

Plus, tripods can usually keep up pretty well. Depending on which leg is missing, they might even be able to contribute well.

* Tripod animals that have tails are usually decent with balance too.



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Edited on 27/03/23 @ 18:10:13 by leon 🔮 (#208511)

[KRK/MH] 🍂Red🍂
{G3FelisDR} (#118717)

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Posted on
2023-03-27 18:13:09
Exactly. *Realistically speaking*, lions with Achromia, Toothless and/or Clawless lions wouldn't be able to hunt for themselves either, but they're still in the game regardless because this game isn't 100% realistic.



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🤎 leon (#208511)


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Posted on
2023-03-27 18:15:15
Clawless, blind, and eyeless top of my head can't hunt. They're not lethals, unlike deaf lions which makes me GRUMPY but this isn't the thread for that LOL

I have an OC who has an amputated leg and I think it would be so cute to be able to recreate him faithfully as a lion :3



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fleance ⚔️ clean
vernal aufeis (#166009)


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Posted on
2023-03-27 18:15:41
@ Holy
Thank you!! <3

@ leon
I totally understand your concerns with this, and personally I wish there was an option to avoid this in gameplay (broodmothers or submales "protecting" lions that are at higher risk of dying, for example). I included it in my suggestion to keep my mutatin idea in line with other mutations that are already in the game :))

@ D A K
Thank you for the kind comment, I really appreciate this! Just to clarify my original post, when I said "Being able to claim mutated lions would break the mutie market", I was really only referring to existing mutations - e.g. being able to claim a pie lioness would devalue the piebald mut as a whole. By making a brand new mutation especially for NCL's, I was hoping to avoid that problem slightly. Instead of devaluing an existing mutation, it would be a new mutation entirely. I understand how it could lower the value of muts as a whole though. Thanks heaps for taking the time to comment

@ Red
I totally agree, it would have to have extremely low odds of occurring. I realise "limb" is a pretty vague term, and thought about changing it to leg or paw - but I actually wanted to hear what people thought and see what image came to mind for other people! Personally I love the idea of a three-legged tripod lioness, but also a lioness with a stubby paw instead of a full paw could be super cute too.

@Corruptedhyena
Absolutely can do! Much like how animals can be born with extra limbs, many animals, including both lions and humans, are born with missing limbs. The official scientific name for this is congenital amputation, and here's the Wikipedia article on it (Wikipedia is open source so not necessarily always trustworthy, but this provides a good overview):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_amputation#:~:text=A%20baby%20with%20congenital%20amputation,referred%20to%20as%20longitudinal%20deficiency.

There aren't many recorded cases of lion cubs being born in the wild with missing limbs. However, this isn't because it's impossible - it's more because wild animals born with missing limbs usually don't survive long enough to be seen and documented by humans. To use an example of a mutation we already have in Lioden, there are no recorded instances of lions with harlequin ichthyosis - that doesn't mean it isn't possible. I did manage to find one article suggestion lion cubs are being born with bone defects and missing limbs due to human intervention - artificial substances like antibiotics are allowing lions which would otherwise die in the wild to survive and reproduce, leading to genetic mutations that impact the cubs' chances of survival.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/dehradun/lion-cubs-with-missing-limbs-bone-defects-blindness-result-of-excess-antibiotics-experts/articleshow/78560705.cms

The main reason I suggested Missing Limb as a mutation for lions is because many other animals, including humans, have been born missing one or more limb. It's a documented genetic mutation. Here's a few examples!
Girl born without arms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1YM7yKw-V4
Puppy born with 3 legs: https://people.com/pets/watch-determined-3-legged-puppy-conquers-step-like-a-champ/
Calf born with 3 legs: https://krcgtv.com/news/local/three-legged-calf-born-in-st-thomas



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Corruptedhyena (#243378)


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Posted on
2023-03-27 18:15:45
I agree to a certain extent but to me this takes it a bit too far a way from the realism that lioden does have. And as for the other mutations they are able to live because they are in a pride. ncls are wild and since they arent chased, assumed to be alone for some time.

And i agree that tripods are able to keep up well, but not well enough to keep the speed neccesary to hunt. Plus if they were able to catch their prey, that missing limb would cause a loss of balance and strength when prey twice your size is struggling around. I definately beleive they would not be able to hunt at all in that condition. Lions with all legs already seriously struggle to hunt in prides. There is just no way a tripod would be able to hunt alone.

I like the idea in general but missing limbs is just not the right mutation for this. However, everything else, the mechanics of how it would work and the limiting of making the mutation none passable is great! I def think something should be done with ncls whether it be mutation or not!



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Corruptedhyena (#243378)


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Posted on
2023-03-27 18:17:22
@haiku sorry i didnt see ur post when i posted.

Thank you so much for explaining! I am deeply interested in this stuff and will def do more research on it! As i said, i really like the idea I just personally find that missing limbs is just not the mutation for this :3



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🤎 leon (#208511)


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Posted on
2023-03-27 18:21:07
I'm probably biased toward being able to make my amputee OC, so I like the mutation.

Even if folks want to keep with realism, I also think it's nice to have lions with real-life disabilities people have able to live fullish lives. Maybe that's silly! But.

(of course excluding deaf. boo)



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fleance ⚔️ clean
vernal aufeis (#166009)


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Posted on
2023-03-27 18:22:17
@hyena

That's totally okay, I was still typing hahah so I refreshed the post to find a bunch more replies!! I appreciate that you like my idea, and ultimately I don't mind if people like the mechanic over the mutation - part of this was also just me trying to come up with a reasonable basis for NCL mutations, and I figured people might think this would be better for other mutations



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{G3FelisDR} (#118717)

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Posted on
2023-03-27 18:24:01
Man I want a tripod lioness... I'd name her War of the Worlds in a HEARTBEAT



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Corruptedhyena (#243378)


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Posted on
2023-03-27 18:27:39
@haiku

What i like is that you arent making the mutation super overpowered! Making this an ncl exclusive mutation will not crash the market at all and gives us something new! personally the types of mutations i would see this happening with are mutations that either dont affect the mechanism or thinking process of a lion or even enhance it!

There is a suggestion somewhere on lioden that suggest double muscled lions. This is a very real mutation and one i would be happy with using for this! or even something as simple as a floating rib or such! just nothing that seriously gets in the way of a lioness being able to hunt/move/think :3



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Firenkyo 🌼 (#128989)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-03-27 19:52:42
This mutation seems like the weirdest thing to draw lioden's realism line at....Compared to the other mutations, it's not a stretch for a lioness to be born missing a limb and learn to adapt to life without one



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Midthedragoness
(she/her) (#41009)

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Posted on
2023-03-27 23:17:20
To combat the argument that limbless lions wouldn't be able to hunt for themselves, there would be smaller animals that they would be able to catch and eat, such as dik diks, meerkats, warthogs, tortoises, birds, infant animals, etc. Usually lions take down prey a lot bigger than them when they're hunting to feed a whole pride, not just themselves.



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Edited on 27/03/23 @ 23:18:13 by Midthedragoness (she/her) (#41009)







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