Posted by Figuring out the rosette / how to triple your odds

Zaba (#296262)

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Posted on
2024-03-13 12:15:31
***all information in this thread is due to change, i am testing thousands of cubs every day and so unexpected results do happen.


FINDINGS SO FAR:




You have a 1/300 chance to breed ANY random rosette (except shaded, soft, bushveld, or briar)
But if your king has a certain marking, you get a SECOND 1/300 roll for whatever shape that marking is associated with

so essentially, there's a 1/2 chance the random rosette a king pops out is related to no factors whatsoever. But the other half is dictated by some trait. this is evident in every single test, half the rosettes make no sense but the other half follows a strict pattern. That might be what's been to elusive about them, throwing off so many people.


things that give you a second roll:
feline markings(for heavy and inverted heavy)
Mane markings(for shaded)
Unders markings (for soft)

things that REDUCE your chance:
Margay markings (cut your chances somewhere between 1/2 or 1/3)
Margay will override your total boosts to 0.2-0.1% no matter what markings your king has.
---

Short: Even if you do meet the criteria to spawn a certain rosette type, there's a 50% chance the rosette spawned will be unrelated. All inverted rosettes, the original rosette shape, and heavy rosettes can be spawned without any criteria. Example: Your king has a mane marking- half his RR cubs will be shaded rosettes and the other half could be inverted.

Inverted rosettes are completely random- including their shape. You don't have to meet the criteria for a shaded rosette to spawn an inverted shaded rosette.
It is possible to control the color of a RR but it isn't guaranteed. If the feline/mane/unders marking is dark, it will spawn more dark rosettes. If the feline/mane/unders is gold, it will spawn more gold rosettes.



Combining all criteria traits will enable you to produce all rosette types with a 0.9% spawn rate.(Feline carries the 0.9% spawn rate, you can combine it with the other shapes to boost your odds)

---
The criteria


Criteria Shaded, Soft, Bushveld, Briar

No Criteria Rosette, All Inverted, Heavy, Most Colors


--

Shaded Requires one parent to have a mane marking

Soft Requires one parent to have a marking with "under" in the name. Includes Lace and Siamese so far.

Bushveld Requires one parent to have a green base, excludes Senegal and Bushveld Shaded

Briar Requires one parent to have a 'white' marking, includes vitiligo

Heavy Boosted by Feline markings, but can occur randomly

Heavy and heavy inverted can be boosted, but they can show up in any breeding
Shaded MUST have a mane marking
Soft MUST have an unders marking (includes lace)
Bushveld MUST have a green-based parent (Excludes Senegal, excludes shaded bushveld)
Mottled is inherited only of course
Briar MUST have a parent with a white marking. This includes inherently white markings like the BO vitiligos.

Roll order: Random rosettes are the first markings to roll, even able to spawn over gnawrocked markings. If markings had a roll order like mutations did, they would be the hybrid roll. Using ochre powders and leopard tails at the same time is completely safe because of it,
You can only spawn 1 random rosette per cub

Disproved theories:


"Cat-like" markings do not increase your odds. In fact, some lower your odds
Base does not contribute to the rosette's color (excluding bushveld)
Your king doesn't require certain markings to spawn a random rosette in general. A completely markingless pairing can still produce one
Having multiple criteria markings does not increase your odds even more. Lioden only runs a single "true/false" check on whether your king has it or not.
Day vs Night breeding does not impact your chances

Unconfirmed trends



If its possible to dictate the slot of a RR via a marking
If the Unders requirement includes ALL underside related markings or only a select group (it is known that lace can produce soft despite not having unders in the name)


Random Rosette Bugs Found


- Briar/Bushveld shaded rosettes can appear without their criteria being met (likely a bug with criteria transferring to the new shape)
- Senegal is not considered a green-base yet, so it can't spawn Bushveld

Markings that do not affect RRs


- Most listed markings have only been tested once, so some may be added or removed if a second test occurs.
- Lace, mottled vents, siamese, feline unders,

Test 1 - control


 

Test 2 - feline boost


 

Test 3 - Lace boost


  

Test 4 - Onyx boost


 

Test 5 - Unders boost


 

Test 6 - multiple felines


 

Test 7 - Combining Onyx and Feline


 


Test 8 - Testing Unders again


 

Test 9 - Testing Shaded


 

Test 10 - All three



 






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Edited on 24/04/24 @ 06:37:03 by Zaba (#296262)

🧡 leon | semi
hiatus (#211229)


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Posted on
2024-03-13 13:15:27
crazy! my king on this account has 3 felines, and i wonder what impact that could potentially have. i've massbred 150 ncls this month, and i've had one random auburn heavy rosette. i might do some of my own trials since i have sb to spare.



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Zaba (#296262)

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Posted on
2024-03-13 13:16:59
Sweet! I haven't tested how multiple feline marks interact, I'll put that on the list. It's good to know that it happened to be heavy, though!



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X!e L!an (#180927)

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Posted on
2024-03-14 03:16:11
I used another way - I checked existing lions with random rosette.
Random Red Shades Rosette: seems like no connection with onyx markings. I checked all lions with the marking in slot 1.
Cases: 8. Onyx marking presented on parent: 2 times.
One case: onyx on king and no feline on king, no onyx nor feline on mom.
Second case: onyx and feline on king, onyx on mom.
Third interesting case: no onyx, no feline on both parents.
Other 5 times any color (BO or app) feline was presented in at least one parent.
Seems like there is correlation between RShR and feline.



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X!e L!an (#180927)

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Posted on
2024-03-14 03:17:17
Also want to add, my lions started producing FIShR sometimes. Probably it is connected with Scoundrel Feline..



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neb 𖤐 g2 leo
murky (#434371)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2024-03-14 06:08:22
i don't think lace specifically boosts it, i just think it's a requirement for some specific rosettes, as a lot of rosettes i've seen appeared in the same slot a parent had lace



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Zaba (#296262)

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Posted on
2024-03-14 08:45:30
I'm still testing everything, but right now these odds have got to mean something. If the king having an onyx marking is the only way I have achieved a random shaded upon the dozens of cubs I've created (and it made several in one test) then there has got to be some relation. It could be linked the mane markings rather than onyx markings, but that will be tested and confirmed later.



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Bluebell [10xRos |
20xBO | G1] (#263841)


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Posted on
2024-03-14 13:45:18
Hello!
Would you be able to post a lil message whenever you've got another test up (just for a subscription notification)? I keep popping in just to see your progress and am really invested at the moment!



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Zaba (#296262)

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Posted on
2024-03-14 13:58:51
Of course! I'll start doing that then.



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Bluebell [10xRos |
20xBO | G1] (#263841)


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Posted on
2024-03-14 14:02:30
Thanks!



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Zaba (#296262)

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Posted on
2024-03-14 14:49:28
UPDATE: test 7
Onyx cowl and onyx feline were combined. Rosette cubs were spawned at 0.9% rate(that of feline) but they had the shaded quality of onyx.
The predicted half were all dark colors, suggesting that rosette color can be controlled



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Bluebell [10xRos |
20xBO | G1] (#263841)


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Posted on
2024-03-14 14:52:16
Ohh I was wondering about that!



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Zaba (#296262)

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Posted on
2024-03-14 19:58:23
UPDATE: test 8
Figured out the criteria to produce a soft rosette (one parent must have a marking with 'unders' in the name)
As of now, we know how to produce ALL shapes, yay! So all the 'criteria' is figured out.

test 9 will be finding if shaded is produced by onyx markings or mane markings in general since some doubt was raised. Though onyx seemed likely, another test to confirm it wouldn't hurt anyone



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🧡 leon | semi
hiatus (#211229)


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Posted on
2024-03-14 20:32:55
This is interesting since my feline and onyx-marking king has only made heavy and inverted rosettes as far as I can remember. Most fiery and auburn, I think, but I can't stretch my brain back that far. His two most recent random rosettes were both heavy auburn, though.



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Zaba (#296262)

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Posted on
2024-03-14 21:57:54
UPDATE: test 9
Shaded is linked to MANE MARKINGS not onyx markings.
I was using an onyx mane marking to test shaded and pulled the wrong quality from it. But this test clears up a lot for you Leon and Xie. All the kings I tested had onyx markings, and half of those were random mane markings, I assumed it to be onyx because of the number. What I didn't account for was the mom.
If the dad didn't have a mane marking, then it was the NCL mom who had it! (I searched through the threads documenting shaded cubs, sure enough the NCL moms always had 'brown low flow' or 'white ticked' if the dad didn't)
You can now buy NCLS knowing what to look out for



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⪘ SiRah (#159527)

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Posted on
2024-03-15 07:27:45
Very interesting! <3

The first theory i'd ever heard was any 2x Feline markings & an 'Under'.

It seems like the results thus far indicate that only 1 Feline marking is actually needed (with long history of multiple feline markings contaminating results?) & that an Under could result in a second soft-oriented rosette 'roll'?

Would these stack? (= A Feline marking + Under + Mane marking, with no other markings/variables, would yield overall best rosette results?)

Thank you for doing this! <3



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