But you assume all breeders do is just breed? They do hop into explore to do the exact same things as everyone else. Meaning they are being effected as much as the one seeking income from that form. How devastating depends on the user's soul choices of game play.

I don't think anyone's a 100% anything in there game play. We all have to dip into each category to get the things we want. There's nothing stopping npc fighters to breed feline as well and there nothing stopping hunters from doing the same. If anything breeding in the current event is a escape goat from the possible "devastation" to income. I don't think it would harm anyone to switch there game mode for a month. I have switch between explore and breeding many times because I get tired of the monotone play. I'm in a moment of going back to explore because breeding got boring.

Thought the true benefactors are the people who aren't in a single category. The all around players and that's what this events gears towards. The all around player can hunt, breed, and explore with still being effected but not enough to make them feel devastated. I think that's there real goal as a site. They can't think of the people as houses like hairy potter. Then they might as well make complete different sections based on different playing styles but they don't favor one over the other yet.

XD They haven't announced anything to making stats more a use. Heck the only thing I'm seeing them do is pump out events and events cost art and coding. Establishing a better stat/battle system isn't high in there list in my book. We've been waiting months for even a glimmer of any real big changes. lolz And it's not the only problem on the site either. xD

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Those whose main income is breeding dont take explore as seriously as those who dont breed and their income comes solely from explore and hunting, who take care of their lion leveling and gaining stats plus impression. The people who only breed will just explore with their male, not caring about their thirst bar because they get enough food just by exploring. No need to fight NPCs. I mean, if I didnt care about statting my male or leveling him up, I would also just merrily explore without caring about that bar and I myself wouldnt understand the limits this bar gives and why people are even complaining about it.

Some people simply like to keep playing the way they like. Basically telling people to change their gameplay for an event is not the best way to go about it. Thing is, that indeed not all game styles are affected, but they should. Negative and positive ways as well, depending on the event itself, offering items and features to help us. Indeed people play different styles, YET only explore and hunting is affected which is NOT necessary used by everyone. Some people either dont see the negative effects, while some others feel left out that their own playstyle is not affected.

There is no reason to argue future updates/modifications to the statting/leveling system. It may or may not happen. I can assume it will, I can also assume it wont. No reason to ride that topic.

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But that's the thing, the heads aren't screaming at people to change game play. Though silently suggesting, trying to encourage the "Hey we do have other things on the site" to them.

I'm pretty sure there more all around players then there is single styles. That's what this events geared towards as well the game. They didn't create this event to souly pick on the explore or hunter players. They wouldn't do that just to crush there game play. They don't do any real harm so why single them out?

Got to stop thinking game styles because what the site wants is people to touch everything on there site that it has to offer. Not just one of the cherries in the basket. The sites done ok keeping it balanced and trying to encourage all game play. The events make explore people try to collect and do there thing. New coats and manes make breeders try to collect. Hunters I'm not sure if they really get much except those snake quests to get different carcasses.

If anyone is having a easy time it the all around players. xD Which when they take time in each style they are gaining all available income to be gained Like its suppose to be. Which means people are making the choice to devastate there own income gains by not taking advantage of all the cherries in the basket. Why should the mass suffer because people choose to not take advantage of every possible income opportunity.

I've played on site where they had various features. I hated a few of them but did them anyways because it meant I was getting the max potential out of my "Dailies" or features. It's a personal choice to isolate the games features from others.

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But you forget that the events will barely coax people into trying them out. Some events can bring nice things into explore/hunting, giving us extras, but many events actually LIMIT explore/hunting, so will only show their negative side towards those who actually play that style. People who breed will not be coaxed to limit their own gameplay if they can just merrily carry on with what they are doing. If they are given a push by the events affecting them, they would feel more push towards the other playstyles.

For example: Breeding is limited, lioness isnt coming to heat, only of you get this or that item and give it to her, but this item can be only found in explore by fighting this and that NPC, or if it can be only bought in the event shop, but in order to gain access, you need to participate and explore. Now that is a push. But of course items could be just found in different ways without needing to explore, was just a thought.

And the question comes: What if I dont want to try out breeding because the market is as bad as it is and maybe at an event you cant even explore? What will I do? Complain. What will people do who dont even need this feature? Nothing. They will instead get angry at us because we are complaining and cannot be happy for the events. I find it highly unfair how my gameplay is severely limited basically at each event and if I complain, then breeders usually shoot me down. I would love to see them affected either positively or negatively to see how much THEY would complain if they were also limited.

The game isnt about forcing people to go and play this style and that. The game is about letting people choose what and how they want to play. You want a realistic lion gameplay without trading, unnatural colors, without breeding? Sure. You want to breed pretty cubs and sell them off, only concentrating on profit? Sure.
But in this case, events should fairly affect everyone, be it in a negative or positive way, all according to what the event gives to the other, so breeders can experience the event without needing or being forced away from their own style.
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And all in all, breeders ARE affected sometimes in events, but only positively.
Eg.: Valentines events where they could get items that helped them breed. Or they get new lion bases with markings for event currency.
For them, events are only fun.
But were they ever affected negatively when an event limited exploring/hunting?
Flood event? No.
Drought event? No.

I would like to see them affected negatively and positively as well, according to what the event gives us, explorers/hunters.

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But breeders complain on a daily bases! xD We have no real genetics or sanity when breeding. Nothing makes sense I could breed a two onyx and get a weird cream. Then add on top that shared markings don't even pass because its random. I could pull up a long list of how many complaints I've seen with lion breeding. Most cubs are chased away even before they become adolescent because they already know its not going to sell. Then on top of that for the large pride owners. They have to feed all those mouths. Then on a crappy lion market. xD There being challenged even without the events. Every breeding is a negative event effect lmao.

There's tons more complaints about breeding then there ever is on exploring or hunting. If you never seen them just browse sharpen claws. XD There's already one on lilacs and celestial.

Then when there was no events? You guys long live without any negative effects. The moment you guys get some then it becomes a problem? Really? If anything they are balancing the them out.

The fact remains. Your aren't limited to one section of game play. No ones locking you in a room with explore only available to you. You have all opportunities available to you. There no plausible reason other then personal preference. Sometimes you do the things that make you unhappy. If you choose to limit more then one opportunity of income then that's no one's fault other then the user's. Speaking from the other side. A pet site owner wants people to be all arounders. It means more possibility for income and players spend more time on your site bonding to it. Which can lead to popularity and etc. It only benefits the site to have everyone playing everything.

Also I never said they coax people into trying them out. There not coaxing people to be single either. There always going to remain neutral. It would only look bad on the owner to favor one side or to seem they do. The idea isn't for there to be sides anyways. Its to create an environment for all styles to be available. Weaving the features in so you can't really live without the other existing. That's what creates a balance for these styles. The events make a need for people to explore. The hunger make it so people have to hunt for food. Then coats and stats etc make it so people breed. None of them function properly alone.

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How breeding works has no connections to my idea. There are plenty threads asking for changes. And breeding is random? So is PVE, PVP, and hunting. Yet PVE and hunting is affected. There are complaints about these too, and there are suggestions for all as well.

When there were no events, no one was complaining because exploring/hunting was not affected in a negative way, while breeding merrily happened unaffected. What would we have complained about? All styles (breeding/PVE/PVP/hunting) are random in this game. Breeders like to complain more for some reason. PVE/PVP players could also complain, but we simply make suggestions instead. It could be also explained by the fact that more and more people turn towards breeding, because it seems more interesting with more variety. Hence why more people seem to complain there. If you would make a survey, there would be more breeders than PVE/hunting players.

And your last comments are exactly what I was saying. Everyone plays the way they want, the way they see fit. So telling them that 'there is the opportunity to change styles' is basically coaxing them and telling them that they should try them out instead of complaining. So in order to make sure that indeed everyone can play the way they want, each playstyle should be the same way affected, so they arent left out. There are many ways to play, and it is very well possible -and people do it- that you dont need or have to explore. Hunting is different story, but some take it more seriously than the others.

And why is it such a problem if breeding is really affected by events? I mean, nobody was complaining when they had the events limit explore/hunt, we are even shot down many times when we were complaining, then all of a sudden there is this fight with claws and teeth that breeding should not be affected by the events. Wouldnt that be more fair to see some limits on breeding too if the other part of lioden is limited one way? Or give them some kind of positive if the others receive it too? Why fight if limits and 'challenges' in explore/hunting is fair in your eyes? Why cant it be fair if it is extended to Breeding too?

And again, these limits can be lifted and altered upon doing a series of actions, participating in the event, applying items, just like we can do with explore. So I dont see the problem. It isnt like you get limited without any chance to fight it. It isnt like you wont be able to successfully breed. So I dont understand the complaints. I would if there was no aid in events. But there is, so if you participate in the event, you wont even notice the limits.

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Breeding has negative effects already in place 24/7.

Stat loss, random coats, random marking opacity, random markings , weird rarity coat system, hundreds of mud cubs. (Then large prides have food shortages.)

Those are all negative effects that occur on a daily bases even without events. That's what I'm saying.

Without events hunting and exploring were never touched or effected. The only negatives is not catching food. There was no negativity placed on them.

That would be seen as unfair. We deal with negative effects each breeding. It's good explore and hunting get a taste of it too.

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PVE: No control over what you find, Biome NPCs are blocked by all-Biome NPCs, NPC fight is highly random, SB cap, no excitement
Hunting: it is random, lower exp, less carcasses than with the previous system, less stats, stats dont affect it, neither does level, frustration at not getting the right carcasses, there is a chance for failure, limit of 10 free hunts a day, the rest nees to be paid.

I could go on. Each playstyle has its own constant negative effects. But depending on our playstyle, the problems can seem harsh or light. I for one dont see randomness in breeding all too great of a problem, since it gives more variety, while you can say that you arent bothered by the random NPC battle fight results, because one cannot win all the time. It all depends on the perspective.

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Ok, now your just fishing for the moon light lol. XD

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I would be more willing to support this if stats-oriented players hadn't already been screwed over three times by permanent additions to the site recently.

Were this suggestion made prior to the stats nerf, the hunting nerf, and now the patrolling nerf, I'd be all for making it more difficult for breeders, or even if it was made far enough after that those of us who enjoy breeding for stats could get back on our feet a bit, however at the present time I don't really support it.

And I think in general the reason there has been so much negative feedback on this is because whether you intend them to be the result or not you do list stat/age related ideas in the thread, and with that always poses the issue of "what if an admin sees it and loves it, then we're screwed." I think if some of the ideas you had listed were put into play, we'd see a lot of people simply refusing to log in for an entire month, since PVE players have an entire lifetime to explore and raise levels and the option of buying the items if they're unavailable (food/toys) and breeders have very time-sensitive goals that you can't always replace simply by going to the Trading Center.

Sorry if this doesn't make any sense, just didn't want to not-input when I feel that I can contribute.

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I see your point in making things fair for everyone, however, do you realize why you're trying to make it "fair"? You've stated

"the rest only sees the challenge and the fun in it, causing them to not understand the problem with some of the events at first or at all."

I believe events are to be played how anyone wants to play them, meaning the user chooses how to play the game. If someone wants to play as a "hunter" in explore, so be it, and if someone wants to play as a breeder, then go right ahead. However, if I'm correct in understanding what this whole topic is about, then in YOUR perspective, you want things to be "fair". I do like your suggestions, well, some of them. I think it's interesting that breeding could be affected positively or negatively, however, doesn't this also depend on your perspective? You've also stated;

"It all depends on the perspective."

Yes? Isn't that right? Then, it doesn't matter how "fair" you try to make it, it all depends on the person's perspective. You could make breeding harder, and "depending on perspective" the breeders are now complaining too. However, if you're trying to make it "fair", then whose to say that the hunters have it hard ALREADY?

In the end, it all depends on how you view it. You can't force someone else to think of the event as hard because that's what makes us all unique; we all have different perspectives. If everyone saw the event as hard, they would all be complaining and getting upset with the staff, no? That's where balance comes in. Just like good and evil, there's balance in the system. Balance can also be represented in real life situations, and that's where Karma comes to play. But also, many others may not believe in balance or karma. Heck, it all depends on their perspective, right?

My point is, no matter how "fair" you try to make it, depending on a person's perspective, they may find it unfair or fair. You can't just throw in things and think that now that everyone has difficulty, they're gonna complain about it and finally understand, because that's not how it works. It all depends on their perspective.

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I see fairness from a third person view. Never from my own view.
If I did, I would say: All events should not limit us in explore and hunting. But I dont, because I see the problem with it from another perspective too.

I completely pull myself from my own perspective and go to the third person mode when suggesting something. Yes, people like to view suggestions when supporting or not supporting from their own perspective. I like the neutral path.

If the event causes negative effects and limits, then it should affect all playstyles.
If the event causes positive effects and adds boosts, then it should affect all playstyles.

There is no more 'neutral fairness' in this than what is needed and what can shove into it. So why should the events affect one playstyle if the others are left untouched? Either all should be affected, or none.

And everyone seem to forget who complain about my tiny examples in the list below the suggestion, that these would be able to be helped and modified by items and actions, just like the limits in explore can be lifted. Just because the example says that lionesses shouldnt come into heat, it doesnt mean that you cannot bring them into heat with items you can get from the event. It doesnt mean that your playstyle will be crippled entirely and you cannot progress. You can. By participating in the events and putting some work into it. I see I need to edit that to clarify.
Just like the way we can fill our thirst bar with items, so can the breeding be helped and the limits lifted.

And just a s note towards VonStrum:
Explore is also tied to the age of the lion. Lions can die, lions need to be replaced so their levels get reset and there I am, with a fresh lion, unable to explore in the biome I wanted, and unable to continue leveling/statting my previous lion. Everyone is equally limited in general gameplay.

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That's not the point i was making. No matter what event happens, there will always be someone for or against it, due to their perspective. So even if you implement things that would also hinder breeding, not everyone is going to find it fair except for the hunters. Not everyone has the same viewpoint. Like i said, I like where you're going with it, but your reasoning is far off. You said that the event is causing people to "not understand the problem". Whose to say they don't understand it? What if they do, and they just choose to accept it better than others. PERSPECTIVE. In my opinion, I feel that the staff did a wonderful job on this event, and that further events should focus on the explore. Because honestly, in my perspective, the whole game is balanced out. Everything is chance, as is events. Events all fall on chance. Everything is random. Everything is balanced like it should be. I have yet to see anyone really complain about the events, and if they do, then that's on them. I find it irrelevant to assume that things are unfair already, just because less people are complaining. That doesn't mean they don't understand, maybe they just have a better time handling the event than others who, in my opinion, get way too into it and find it a serious struggle.

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Yes, I am aware of that, as I have included it within my post as well. People will always choose to support an idea or not according to how it will affect them.

I simply explained how I see it and how I suggest ideas. Seeing things from a neutral standpoint always helped me when dealing with problems and suggestions.

It is perfectly fine that people dont want to support an idea, after all one cannot please everyone. I however like to explain further and see if I can solve the issue first. Sometimes people skip over a detail and this is why they dont support.

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I do a little bit of everything and don't consider myself merely in one "category," but I agree entirely with VonSturm's concerns.

>> I would be more willing to support this if stats-oriented players hadn't already been screwed over three times by permanent additions to the site recently.

<3

Thirst is already an annoyance to manage so that my lionesses will get XP from their hunts and so my lion can keep fighting.
Adding in something else to manage just to make sure my cubs don't turn out with -50% stats... would probably just make me want to take a month-long break, even if there were items you could acquire to relieve that. It's still a hassle.

I get that games should have challenges to overcome, but I'm also of the mind that gameplay should be fun and enjoyable, something you desire to return to. Not just toss in a bunch of annoying obstacles and you get rewarded for dealing with it.

And with that suggestion, it's not even a reward, it's just avoiding a -50% stat penalty. Now if the event offered a +150% stat boost for cubs whose father wasn't dehydrated by Thirst, that would be something to strive for, and an actual reward above and beyond the norm.

I realize the 50% thing is just an example arbitrary number, but I'm speaking about any kind of stat modification. I just think a game should be enjoyably rewarding, not "do this to avoid this penalty or deal with the consequences, haha hope you're having fun."

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