Posted by -ADDED TO THE GAME-Reverse studding ~ Making it reliable

xXDruidXx (#74535)

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Posted on
2017-02-23 07:54:19
Okay so it's come to my attention that not all of the reverse studders stick to their word and end up keeping the cubs if it is proven to be a dwarf or leopon etc. Which in my opinion seems very scam-like. As if no mutie is produce they earn 50-100gb of stuff, if a mutie is produced then they send the items back and come up with an excuse to keep the cub. With the current rules admins and mods won't do anything about this themselves, except possibly ban a scammer, but it's not their job to return lions etc! Which I understand completely, I wouldn't want to have to deal with stuff like that either XD

I'm certainly not saying every studder is like this, some of them are awesome and completely reliable <3 But unfortunately not all are!

My suggestion is that there is a more formal way of reverse studding! How? I'll use a leopon as an example.
.There would be a way to put your 'pon up for stud as a female lioness. She will be put up and like a trade, there will be a buyout and ways to offer items etc!
.The payment will only be made once she get's pregnant to prevent paying for nothing XD The payer will choose the stud from a list, or use their own king.
.Once the leopon is pregnant, the lioness can't be traded, sold etc, she must stay on that persons account, like how cooldowns work, but for a longer time!
.The cubs she gives birth to can't be sold/chased and they must stay on the account until they're old enough to leave the mother.
.When the cubs are old enough they will be automatically sent over to the person who paid.

I am definitely not saying that's how it should be done! So don't "no support" due to that, instead suggest your ideas on how this would work ^-^ I am no professional coder, so don't expect me to know how easy this would be!
Please suggest ideas and give your support! It greatly help those who want to reverse breed but have been scammed in the past or are two nervous to reverse breed due to unreliability!
Don't say things like this don't happen, they do and it happened to a friend of mine!

Thank you ^-^

Suggestions ~
Mish ๐Ÿพ (#82643) ~ What if instead of making it so they couldn't be chased or moved from the account during the five days of nursing, it was possible to transfer them earlier to *only* the reverse studee with the requirement of having the nursing cub protected by a broodmother (to function somewhat as a "wet nurse", so to speak.)
^^ That would prevent the studder neglecting the cubs, by not protecting them etc!

The owner of the stud would decide how many cubs the payer can choose out of, when they're born the buyer would pick their favourite cub, the rest would belong to the owner of the stud. So if something like two leopon cubs occurred, the stud owner doesn't have to give them both!

Studding weekly limits, like kings have now.


Most of the arguments made for problems, already exist, please. If you have no experiance in 'pon breeding what so ever don't make an argument about 'pon breeding. Also, don't make arguments for things that already happen. Instead, suggest ways these problems could also be stopped!



This suggestion has 171 supports and 29 NO supports.



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Edited on 24/02/17 @ 03:17:07 by xXDruidXx (#74535)

xXDruidXx (#74535)

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Posted on
2017-02-23 09:31:55
Hahah XD I'll add it to the suggestions :P



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Bezthiel ๐Ÿ‰ (#81210)

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Posted on
2017-02-23 09:34:54
Most of the reverse studding advertisement require you to provide 20 yohimbe barks (or at least as many as are needed to bring the lioness into heat) for cooldown purposes, so in these types of deals the seller is rarely actually losing a heat. That does need to be taken into account before just saying that the lionesses have a natural cooldown. Rarely is this done without skipping cooldowns, so potentially without enforcing limits, a lioness could be studded out infinite times per day.

They can now too, of course, but it's part of the reason I would suggest limits on this. A game supported feature would see more use than promise-based transactions currently do now, I bet.



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Edited on 23/02/17 @ 16:36:16 by Bezthiel (#81210)

xXDruidXx (#74535)

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Posted on
2017-02-23 09:37:08
Possibly Bezthiel, but they will have to pay an extra 20 yoh barks to do that, so it's like paying for extra stud slots, but with yoh barks! ^-^



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Bezthiel ๐Ÿ‰ (#81210)

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Posted on
2017-02-23 09:43:18
That's a price the buyer has to pay. Not the seller. So the seller, when they require the buyer to provide, it still not losing any natural heats. They should be losing something in this transaction, the same way that a stud is losing energy that he may want to use for exploring or breeding his own lionesses.



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xXDruidXx (#74535)

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Posted on
2017-02-23 09:44:27
So maybe a limit of 15 like a normal stud, then they can pay a gb or two in the oasis for more slots?



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Myriad (#76)


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Posted on
2017-02-23 09:46:04
I'm kind of on the fence on this one, because in theory I think some sort of official feature would be good - I do hate seeing people being scammed, even with features like this that are not officially recommended by staff because of the risk.

The trouble is that in its current form I think it seems too complex to be feasible to code, to be honest. Multiple people have replied with good ideas/changes/additions, but it makes it really complex to create a one-size-fits-all feature from all those ideas and options that could be coded and work effectively as an official feature. Not impossible, but maybe it would need simplifying down a bit more still.

I do also think that there would have to be some sort of weekly (or otherwise) limit, if this was going to be an official thing, as has been mentioned already above - even though in most cases it wouldn't matter because of breeding cooldowns, in Feb with barks it could get pretty ridiculous. Even with the risk of promise based transactions as they currently are, where in theory you could be scammed and lose all your payment/items, reverse breedings to pons are *hugely* popular.

With the addition of official protection in some sort of proper studding system, it would blow up even more - with no weekly limit at all, and no risk to the person buying a reverse studding, a single pon could just be repeatedly bred sooooo many times! No idea quite what that would do to the economy, but it would certainly skew things a lot this month - and beyond - because obviously that affects the market the rest of the year too. You'd potentially have a situation where pons became much more common and would lose a lot of their value, and later on the same could happen for tigons etc as well.



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Edited on 23/02/17 @ 16:47:21 by Myriad โ˜• (#76)

xXDruidXx (#74535)

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Posted on
2017-02-23 09:50:08
Myriad, yeah, as I said just before your comment, maybe a limit of 15 like a normal stud, then additions can be brought. Even though yoh barks can mean more bred, I doubt that many people will have the funds to wreck the system XD
But I will put up a limit suggestion as it could become necessary ^-^

As for simplifying it, I would need to be told by a lioden coder to know what to suggest! I don't know how things like this are coded so I unfortunately cannot change the suggestion to suite coding purposes!



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Mish ๐Ÿพ [G1 Primal
Leonid] (#82643)

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Posted on
2017-02-23 09:57:13
I totally forgot barks existed!

I feel like fifteen a week is still pretty high.. Based off of the percentages I saw on a reverse-studding if every single slot was taken up and assuming each litter only had*two* cubbins, that'd still make it possible for a leopon per week, which is a crazy high amount comparative to the norms.. (Of course, people can do this already with barks, so maybe the point is a bit moot anyway, buuuut.) [As a side note, my math could also be wrong! Based off a 5% chance per cub, if anyone wants to double check me.]

Maybe it could be as low as five? That'd still be ~15 slots a month, which would give potential for at least a leopon per month if maximized.

I suppose it'd just depend on how restrictive you'd want it to be! Barks are already super "OP", so to speak, but that is why they go for so much GB xD



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xXDruidXx (#74535)

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Posted on
2017-02-23 09:59:47
Yeah, at the moment barks can still be overused, it's not like this studding will worsen it! If anything, by the restrictions it'll make it better XD

I've included stud limits in the suggestions, but will leave the amount unclarified, it would be up to lioden staff to do what they think is a suitable amount!



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Myriad (#76)


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Posted on
2017-02-23 10:01:58
Sorry yeah I didn't see that before I posted - but yep that was the kind of thing I meant :)

I guess I also meant that it would be the seller rather than the buyer that would benefit and potentially skew the system, to be honest - without a limit (and a definite limit, like we currently have with males, where only a certain number of bulrushes can be given to add extra slots) a pon owner could in theory just keep on breeding. Is it 3 bulrushes per stud per week, maybe? I'm afraid I can't remember for certain, but something like that.

Each person studding would only need the barks and the stud fee, and hundreds of people active this month have earned enough for at least 20 barks, or 40/60/etc - they're pretty cheap and easy to get hold of for even semi-active players.

Even if each person only bought one breeding, there'd be a lot of individual people who could just buy one, and that would all add up, if you see what I mean :)

Also, to add on from Mish said - I personally don't breed pons so I don't have much to lose/gain, but those who have been reverse breeding pons this month so far would probably lose a lot of breedings if it went down to 5 a week. Whether people see that as a good or bad thing probably depends on what they stand to lose, but I can see it could be contentious either way! ;) I totally understand what you're saying though - 15 is a lot.



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xXDruidXx (#74535)

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Posted on
2017-02-23 10:05:02
Yeah I haven't suggested 15 as it would be up to lioden staff to decide what's best! But I have put a limit suggestion up ^-^

Plus even those who can get barks still need to find 50-100gb worth of stuff as well as that haha



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๐ŸŒˆRainbow|BLM|4x
Prism|Clean (#66036)


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Posted on
2017-02-23 11:41:26
Ello! Queenie here
I've been following this thread for a little bit and I just wanted to say, you do not have my support. I understand that you want to stop the scamming and so do I because as a Leopon Owner and Reverse Breeder that puts a bad name on me and others who do not scam.

The reason why I do not support because we all agree Leopons are very rare and hard to come by if you don't have a First Gen. or other Gens.Yes? So for an Leopon owner to kindly let those who aim to have a leopon of their own use their leopons the owner should be rewarded just as much as the buyer. Its perfectly fine that we charge 50-100GB because we are allowing you (the buyers) a chance to have a 10% chance (if you breed to a 1st Gen Pon) or 5% chance (if you breed to a non-first gen pon) at getting a pon yourself. It is very rare that a first gen pops up from just CRB, Lion Meat, and GMO Cowing lionesses. What you are suggesting is taking (it sounds to me ) all the power away from the owner of the leopon,

My simple solution is to if you don't like what one leopon reverse breeder is asking for go find another owner who is willing to be flexible or just keep spending even more money on those breeding Items and still have a very very very very very low chance at getting a pon from a regular lioness.

And If someone is scamming you of your chance or the leopon that was breed in the process you need to report them ASAP. As for when an owner says in the case of a double pon birth and we get the second pick pon is us saying you payed only for ONE pon. You paid for the chance of one pon cub and any fail cubs. It is only right that the owner gets it because again you paid for one pon and it is our leopon you are using to get that pon. NOW my rule if that if there was more than three pons born you get 2 and I get one. It may seem unfair but like I said earlier Leopons are rare and it is not a guarantee that another baby pon will come from the leopon..with that second pon the owner will have another chance at getting more leopons,


I hope this is some light on this. Feel free to PM me or just comment on here if you have questions

ALSO!
I am not speaking for all Leopon Owners because they may have a different reason why they don't support. ^ ^



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Bezthiel ๐Ÿ‰ (#81210)

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Posted on
2017-02-23 12:05:16
Can you explain what you mean by "taking the power away"? I think I'd understand your argument better if you explained that more thoroughly.

I'm not sure how a system to protect buyers takes power away from anyone, unless that person is trying to scam.

Everything else is just extra ideas thrown at the board to see what sticks.



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๐ŸŒˆRainbow|BLM|4x
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Posted on
2017-02-23 12:12:01
When I say its taking the power away from the Owner by when there are more than two pons are born. You guys want to keep both pons but you paid for the chance of one pon cub and any fail cubs. You want a system that makes the owner give that second pon to the buyer. Thats taking the owners say in what happens to that second pon away. Does this clearify a bit more?

I'm all for protecting the buyer but at the same time I think the Leopon Owner should have a little more say in the deal as well.



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Bezthiel ๐Ÿ‰ (#81210)

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Posted on
2017-02-23 12:15:48
Yeah, some of us don't like paying 200+ GB worth of items and cash for someone else to keep the cubs we paid for (not to mention the addition of whatever amount Yohimbe bark is going for atm). But that's people like Mei and I, who admitted that we don't use reverse studding for exactly that reason.

But the actual body of the thread itself says up there "The owner of the stud (which in this case, remember, would be the lioness!) would decide how many cubs the payer can choose out of, when they're born the buyer would pick their favourite cub, the rest would belong to the owner of the stud."

So it would actually be no change for most people that are selling reverse studding, from what the thread is proposing.



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Edited on 23/02/17 @ 19:18:48 by Bezthiel (#81210)







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