Posted by -ADDED TO THE GAME-Reverse studding ~ Making it reliable

xXDruidXx (#74535)

Nice Guy
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2017-02-23 07:54:19
Okay so it's come to my attention that not all of the reverse studders stick to their word and end up keeping the cubs if it is proven to be a dwarf or leopon etc. Which in my opinion seems very scam-like. As if no mutie is produce they earn 50-100gb of stuff, if a mutie is produced then they send the items back and come up with an excuse to keep the cub. With the current rules admins and mods won't do anything about this themselves, except possibly ban a scammer, but it's not their job to return lions etc! Which I understand completely, I wouldn't want to have to deal with stuff like that either XD

I'm certainly not saying every studder is like this, some of them are awesome and completely reliable <3 But unfortunately not all are!

My suggestion is that there is a more formal way of reverse studding! How? I'll use a leopon as an example.
.There would be a way to put your 'pon up for stud as a female lioness. She will be put up and like a trade, there will be a buyout and ways to offer items etc!
.The payment will only be made once she get's pregnant to prevent paying for nothing XD The payer will choose the stud from a list, or use their own king.
.Once the leopon is pregnant, the lioness can't be traded, sold etc, she must stay on that persons account, like how cooldowns work, but for a longer time!
.The cubs she gives birth to can't be sold/chased and they must stay on the account until they're old enough to leave the mother.
.When the cubs are old enough they will be automatically sent over to the person who paid.

I am definitely not saying that's how it should be done! So don't "no support" due to that, instead suggest your ideas on how this would work ^-^ I am no professional coder, so don't expect me to know how easy this would be!
Please suggest ideas and give your support! It greatly help those who want to reverse breed but have been scammed in the past or are two nervous to reverse breed due to unreliability!
Don't say things like this don't happen, they do and it happened to a friend of mine!

Thank you ^-^

Suggestions ~
Mish ๐Ÿพ (#82643) ~ What if instead of making it so they couldn't be chased or moved from the account during the five days of nursing, it was possible to transfer them earlier to *only* the reverse studee with the requirement of having the nursing cub protected by a broodmother (to function somewhat as a "wet nurse", so to speak.)
^^ That would prevent the studder neglecting the cubs, by not protecting them etc!

The owner of the stud would decide how many cubs the payer can choose out of, when they're born the buyer would pick their favourite cub, the rest would belong to the owner of the stud. So if something like two leopon cubs occurred, the stud owner doesn't have to give them both!

Studding weekly limits, like kings have now.


Most of the arguments made for problems, already exist, please. If you have no experiance in 'pon breeding what so ever don't make an argument about 'pon breeding. Also, don't make arguments for things that already happen. Instead, suggest ways these problems could also be stopped!



This suggestion has 171 supports and 29 NO supports.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Edited on 24/02/17 @ 03:17:07 by xXDruidXx (#74535)

๐ŸŒˆRainbow|BLM|4x
Prism|Clean (#66036)


View Forum Posts


Posted on
2017-02-23 12:58:13
lol I know

But it is not greed. It would be greed and scamming if that pon owner kept both pon and sent back the payment. THAT right there is greed.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Bezthiel ๐Ÿ‰ (#81210)

Lone Wanderer
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2017-02-23 12:58:14
I understand completely why you don't want to lose out on that income, I do. But it's pure luck on how many leopons/dwarfs/polycaudals/whatevers will come out of a litter. If a person paid for the whole litter, they paid for the whole litter, even if they get lucky and you don't.

Again, the way to protect yourself from that is to not sell studdings if you don't want to give up the cubs that result. But again, that's simply our opinion and since this isn't a site feature, you are very welcome to find people that agree with you and will allow you to keep a cub from their litter.

For those of us who do not want that to be the case, the suggestion now implies that the seller of the breedings would get to impose a limit on how many cubs we can keep. Right now, we can simply find a seller who will not keep our cubs, and both viewpoints will be perfectly happy.

Suggestion implemented as implied means that the group who does not want the lioness owner to keep cubs is screwed.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Myriad (#76)


View Forum Posts


Posted on
2017-02-23 13:02:10
If you're changing what you're willing to hand over to the buyer depending on the circumstances (and without a *very* clear, definite agreement in the first place) it's simply dishonest. I would never keep an extra cub purely for the money if I had said or implied otherwise when taking payment for the breeding, regardless of how much it cost me to 'lose' that pon. That's irrelevant.

I actually don't care if breeders want to keep additional pon cubs from a breeding they have sold, as long as the buyer goes into it KNOWING 100% that that is what will happen. Though I imagine most buyers would be prepared to pay slightly less for a breeding where that was the case, compared to a breeding from a pon owner who they knew would offer a deal where the buyer was guaranteed both pons if two were to pop up. After all, why would you pay the same amount for a chance of 1 of something, as for the chance (albeit small) of more than 1..?

But all I'm concerned with personally is transparency and honesty. I don't see why either buyer or seller needs to keep 'power' in the transaction, as long as it is coded in such a way that the outcome of the breeding can be decided (and set in stone) beforehand and is clear to both parties. Whether that is remotely possible or practical is a whole other question - certainly it would be far more complex to figure out than standard male studding, I suspect.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Bezthiel ๐Ÿ‰ (#81210)

Lone Wanderer
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2017-02-23 13:02:21
Also, I suppose this is where we fundamentally disagree -- "You paid 50-100GB for a leopon cub that goes for 500-600GB"

No. I paid to use the heat of a leopon. What comes out of that heat is mine, because I paid to use it.

Like Myriad though, take what I say with a grain of salt because I'm hardly interested in breeding leopons (not a fan of their lineart at all). But I would like to see a workable manner to reverse stud. Atm it's too much trust-based to be practical, even though there are some stat ladies I would pay to use and even just some pretty af lionesses I'd like to breed to a certain stud to see what comes out.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?


Edited on 23/02/17 @ 20:05:31 by Bezthiel (#81210)

๐ŸŒˆRainbow|BLM|4x
Prism|Clean (#66036)


View Forum Posts


Posted on
2017-02-23 13:03:32
I understand completely why you don't want to lose out on that income, I do. But it's pure luck on how many leopons/dwarfs/polycaudals/whatevers will come out of a litter. If a person paid for the whole litter, they paid for the whole litter, even if they get lucky and you don't.

Please remind me how you are getting this luck. Arnt you using my pon? If RBing were to stop, those with no pons with be struggling extremly hard. And honestly this is starting to sound like greed from your behaves. You want to talk about a fair trade buy how is not spliting the twin cubs 50/50 not fair??




Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Mei (#53317)

Good Natured
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2017-02-23 13:06:04
Um, I think you're forgetting the fundamental definition of purchase. It would be one thing if you gave them a reverse studding for free. Then it would be completely your right to take one or more cubs from the litter. But since they PAID for it, you have no say in the litter whatsoever.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Bezthiel ๐Ÿ‰ (#81210)

Lone Wanderer
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2017-02-23 13:08:32
Because, again, I paid to use a heat.

Not for cubs.

Which is where, again, I think we so basically disagree. I did not pay for 1 cub, I paid for 1 breeding and, assuming I'm bringing my own yohimbe bark, is at no cost to you at all. You don't lose even a day of cooldown/heat if I provide my own aging stones too!

I might get (assuming item use) 3 potato cubs with terrible stats that I still paid 50-100GB to you for.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

๐Ÿ˜ธ Chonk ๐Ÿ˜ธ (#54568)

Deathlord of the Jungle
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2017-02-23 13:21:34
Some pon owners do not see it as paying to use the heat, they see it as paying for the opportunity to get one leopon cub. If you wish to purchase an entire heat/litter, purchase from someone who is offering exactly that.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Bezthiel ๐Ÿ‰ (#81210)

Lone Wanderer
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2017-02-23 13:24:56
Yeah... I've repeated that a few times. Which is why I no longer support this suggestion, like I also said. It's implying that the owner will have full control over that if implemented, instead of currently getting to discuss purchases with an owner.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?


Edited on 23/02/17 @ 20:27:07 by Bezthiel (#81210)

xXDruidXx (#74535)

Nice Guy
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2017-02-23 20:07:23
Queen it appears to me that you've either misread, or not read the entire suggestion... The owner of the stud would decide how many cubs could be kept before the transaction is made! The buyer will then get to select the cub/s they want when they're born. It won't be just based on whether or not the person feels like sending them back. The amount sent would be decided and coded in so it couldn't be kept or not beforehand.

As for those who argue that they want the entire litter. I never said the studder couldn't offer the entire litter! You just have to choose someone who offers you all the cubs. Instead of someone who offers one. It's the studders decision. I do not see how this would take away the leopon breeders power, unless they are trying to scam.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?


Edited on 24/02/17 @ 03:18:01 by xXDruidXx (#74535)

xXDruidXx (#74535)

Nice Guy
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2017-02-23 20:15:04
Also the chance of potato cubs is already possible! A lot of the arguments being made, already exist! I do not know how this feature would make that worse, if anything it would improve it.

Getting a potato cub is part of the risk of any breeding, especially 'pons. If you don't want to take that risk then save up a few hundred more gb and buy a 'pon straight up. This suggestion doesn't create that problem. It already exists.
The same goes for the only getting one cub, that already exists with pretty much every pon breeding. So please stop making arguments against this like that. This suggestion does not create them. It's designed to stop scammers. My friend got cheated out of a rare 'pon it was worth about 600-800gbs maybe more! Yes they told an admin, no the admins/mods won't do anything about it! It's a promise transaction and the rules state that mods wont deal with them.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Bezthiel ๐Ÿ‰ (#81210)

Lone Wanderer
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2017-02-24 06:16:53
I think the question and contention among most of us is: Who ultimately gets to make the choice of how many cubs the buyer is getting?

It has to be a question that's answered to make this a site supported feature.

As it is, there are certainly risks in promise-based transactions, but at least that decision can be discussed between buyers and sellers before anything else.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?


Edited on 24/02/17 @ 13:17:22 by Bezthiel (#81210)

xXDruidXx (#74535)

Nice Guy
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2017-02-24 06:20:09
Well the buyer and studder can easily discuss beforehand, like you can with normal studding for cases of VLF girls etc! They can make an advertisement and discuss it there or in pm. Then once the amount is decided the studding would be set up how they agreed to it, like how you set up private trades! ^-^
Some people are happy with one 'pon, I mean they're only paying 100gb XD Some who want the entire litter would have to talk to a breeder who is willing to give them the entire litter! ^-^
I hope that makes sense



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Bezthiel ๐Ÿ‰ (#81210)

Lone Wanderer
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2017-02-24 06:24:58
I mean, I would imagine something like studding now would be the end goal of this, right?

So what if there's just a (leave leopons out of this for now, because it's really not that important what it is) cute bobtail girl up for studding. There are no rules in this "reverse stud rules" box, but you really want babies from her. So you pay your fee, maybe even use lion and buffy balls. ...the bobtail's owner lets you choose one cub out of the four of them that are born. Now what? Is that just kinda too bad for you, because there were no rules and anything goes?

It's not honestly an easy question to answer. It's got parallels to surrogacy in real life. If you're renting a womb, do you own everything that comes out of it?



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

xXDruidXx (#74535)

Nice Guy
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2017-02-24 06:31:50
Don't pay for the fee, unless you are happy with the set up! If you're not, then pm the person to see if something could be worked out. The amount of cubs you get to keep would be written down automatically as the person would have to select it to put up the studding option. The amount of cubs you get would be decided before the thing takes place, not after! Even if the owner doesn't write the specific rules down, there's some that have to be put in before the studding can be put up!

It's not real life for starters XD But for arguments sake, say it was. Everything like that would most probably be decided before-hand. If the person decides you can keep all of the cubs, they will put in that the payer can get 4 cubs (If there is only three cubs, then they just keep the three cubs. If the owner only wants to give away one cub, they set it up as one cub choice.)

You will know what you're paying for before-hand, if you don't like that studs options, then pick another! Just like you would with a male stud ^-^



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?







Memory Used: 644.16 KB - Queries: 0 - Query Time: 0.00000 - Total Time: 0.00505s