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Posted by | -LOCKED - -ADDED TO THE GAME-Fix Albino Pass Rules || 1059+/-37 |
Razz {Side} (#36422) King of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2018-02-13 09:45:20 |
For all who are worried- this is not to eliminate the base or even prevent it from passing at all, this is just to get the base to follow the rules of genetics that Lioden has, OR to significantly lower the chance of it cropping up outside of its genetic groups. For me, this is the most frustrating thing in game. The albino base can pass from anything. It ignores every piece of genetics in the game, and hurts specific color breeders hugely. Albino is a Black Light Solid base. According to the wiki: "If you were to cross two parents from the Black colour group, all of their subsequent offspring will have bases from the Black colour group. If you cross a Black colour group parent with a Cream colour group parent, you will end up with offspring from both the Black and Cream colour groups." "Dark x Dark = Dark Light x Light = Light Dark x Light = 25% Dark, 25% Light, 50% Medium Medium x Medium = 15% Dark, 15% Light, 70% Medium Dark x Medium = 50% Dark, 50% Medium Light x Medium = 50% Light, 50% Medium" "Breeding with gradients is a bit simpler than shades. If you cross two Countershaded parents, all offspring will be Countershaded. If you cross two Solid parents, all offspring will be Solid. If you cross a Countershaded with a Solid, you can have cubs from either gradient!" Now. Considering this information, let me show you my most recent litter, and a prime example of what albino is doing. This is Concha Her information is as follows: Nacre Cream Dark Countershaded special Her mate for this most recent breeding was Lord Kumba His information is as follows: Nacre Cream Dark Countershaded special According to this, cubs should look only like this in respect to genetics: Cream Group, Dark Shade, Countershaded Gradient. Because it is a Cream x Cream breeding, all cubs are cream. Because it is a Dark x Dark breeding, all cubs are dark. Because it is a Countershaded x Countershaded breeding, all cubs are countershaded. But then we get to her firstborn daughter. This is the cub I am not protecting her so that link will probably die out soon. To prevent this from being lost, here are all of the screenshots that pertain to the cub's information. Currents and Stats, Parents Breeding Info Appearance What is this albino? Black, not Cream, Light, not Dark, Solid, not Countershaded. This is a huge conflict in breeding and it is exceptionally difficult when a breeder has to deal with this in their litters. The issue is that, with many breeders, not only the fact that albino can pass from anything and ignores all genetics, but how often it happens. If I have any sort of breeding going, from 2 lionesses to 20, at least 1-2 of the cubs will be albino. What I am suggesting is as follows: A: Making it so that albino obeys normal genetics like everything else or, for all those who say that albino should be able to pass from anything because it's an 'unnatural' base (it's not achromia, it's not a mutation, it is a BASE, just a reminder!) B: Significantly lowering the chance of it appearing randomly in litters. A 0.1-0.5% chance should suffice. There is no reason that it should show its face so often among our litters, make it a surprise rather than a disappointment. Maximum Storm (#114957) suggested perhaps making it a lower chance for everything other than black with a slightly higher rate of appearing with black bases! And now, thanks to Thalath and Bezthiel... C: Adjust albinos classification to Black Light Solid Special. Black has a lot of specials already, but not many in that particular class (light solid). Restrain it to it's genetics, and then make it be an applicable special base like Onyx or Maltese. This way it can be a slightly more useful base, and it would fix the issue of how underappreciated the base is right now. D: Suggested by Seabunny #114144. Make Achromia and Melanism inheritable mutations, and give Albino a new name, locking it into its own group but still allowing for people who like the idea behind it to be able to breed for Achromias that result in the same 'albino' look. E: Combined Suggestions. Make Albino a special base, and then make it a breed only occurrence. No longer applicable from the oasis, a special class, the demand for Albinos and their appearance on rarer lions (high statters, tigons and leopons, other mutations etc), would skyrocket I know that renaming albino is a rejected suggestion but I'm still going to keep the option here because I feel that giving as many possible fixes to the solution is a better idea than giving one suggestion that 90% of people dislike even if 80 of those 90% would support the fact that albino needs to be fixed somehow. Edit 2/14 River #6903 "Yes. This made sense if we had no achromia mutation, but we do so...." As they said, the Achromia mutation negates the need for albino to pass from anything. Albino isn't a mutation, so it should not pass like a mutation does. It should obey the normal base genetics like all other bases have to. Edit 2/15 According to Taevali and Kristy, based on their experiences, the pass rate is roughly 15-20%, meaning that in 100 cubs bred from ANY base 15-20 of them will have albino bases. That is ridiculously high, and overpopulates the game with this base. According to Bezthiel, it was at one point only 3%, but it feels much more than that and may have been raised. Edit 2/16 New fix suggestion implemented! Edit 2/19 Coal #133177 has suggested that the rate be adjusted to something closer to 1/5000, to make it a rarer occurrence. Edit 3/19 Adam #68231 Used the Scrying Stone before my Anjeer lioness gave birth (ended up using IBF on her anyway) and the first few results were almost all Albino, despite the stud being Sunset. Edit 3/20 Brought up by TrotterTheOtter @27811 With how few breedings females have, the level at which albino crops up can be extremely detrimental to someone who is trying to obtain the base using just their female and an outside male. Especially if it's a Special-Special, like the July bases, the chance is already next to nothing. When you're getting albinos every litter, it's another cub less that you have a chance to get that special-special to pass. Not only is it useless on that front, but it also eliminates the chance of you obtaining a base that actually would help with breeding the base you're aiming for. Edit 3/22 Genetics Newspost Kudos to Nate #26405 for finding this. This is the newspost in which Genetics were introduced. If you look a few paragraphs down, you find this quote: "Albinos can now no longer be selectively bred, and instead are a small random chance, much like a mutation. Breeding two albinos will not give you an albino unless the random chance happens. Albinos can occur in any pairing!" I'd like to draw your attention to the last part of the first sentence. ". . . much like a mutation." This is exactly the issue for which this thread was made. Achromia is a mutation, albino is a base. A base should not be passing like a mutation does. Not unless it is given 'special' status, and only appears within its own grouping, much like bases such as Prune or Maltese. Both bases occur rarely without a parent that carries the base, but they can occur randomly within the group of their color. If you need proof of this, I'm happy to go snatch up the little Prune baby my Anjeer and his non-prune lass made earlier this week. That random occurrence of the base is damaging to color breeders, and because it isn't even Special genetics, we have literally no use for it. To further this, by having a base that is "much like a mutation", the game is negating it's own money-maker. Mutations are, simply put, a huge part of the Lioden economy. These are mainly centered around the passable muts, but regardless, they are all selling for GB. GB is the lifeblood of Lioden, it is what keeps the game running. When you negate the functionality of mutations by simply having a base that is "much like a mutation", the game and it's makers are damaging themselves. The reason it occurred randomly before mutations were input is because there were no genetics in place. Either way, the random chance infused with the base is useless and extremely harmful to breeders who go for color specifically. That is why this thread is here. Edit: 5/20 RottAndArtist brings up a good point! With the addition of Clear White to the endless list of bases Lioden has, Albino becomes even more useless. If it were combined with its group, or as Rott also suggested, had its pass rate extremely lowered, it may become more and more coveted! It appears that the Mods have been making an attempt to counterbalance the distress around random albinos with certain updates, (ex, its use in Cloudburst breeding), but this does not make it OK to have this level of random albinos! 3.5% pass rate? That's ridiculous!!! This is a plea to the mods, please, lets get this under control. There may soon be a higher demand for the 'white' bases with the coming of Tigons. White Tigers could be a high demand creation due to the aesthetic. However, Clear White is a custom base. And it's a custom special base. This overrides Albinos use in this manner. By adjusting its class (special), or making it a breed only thing with a actually, genuinely low pass rate, we could see a rise in the number of people who enjoy and covet the albino base. Also: Concha has died and was my sister's lion in the end. She was not saved due to lack of room, so her link is now dead! If you don't support, please tell me why! --- ALBINO PASS RATE SCRY STUDY Official Results Document Black Solid x Black Solid Total Rate: 2/50, 4% Albino Pass Black Countershaded x Black Countershaded Total Rate: 2/50, 4% Albino Pass Black Total Pass Rate: 4% Cream Solid x Cream Solid Total Rate: 1/50, 2% Albino Pass Cream Countershaded x Cream Countershaded Total Rate: 0/50, 0% Albino Pass Cream Total Pass Rate: 1% Golden Solid x Golden Solid Total Rate: 1/50, 2% Albino Pass Golden Countershaded x Golden Countershaded Total Rate: 2/50, 4% Albino Pass Golden Total Pass Rate: 3% Red Solid x Red Solid Total Rate: 2/50, 4% Albino Pass Red Countershaded x Red Countershaded Total Rate: 3/50, 6% Albino Pass Red Total Pass Rate: 5% TOTAL FINAL RESULT Total Pass Rate: 14/400, 3.5% It appears that Red has the highest pass rate of all, with a total 5% pass rate! This is followed by Black, then Gold, and finally Cream, with a 1% pass rate. Even a 1% pass rate is far too high! The HIGHEST pass rate for mutations is around 1 in 250, a 0.4% pass rate. Albino random occurance, if meant to be "like a mutation", should be at MOST a 0.5% pass rate. That's 7x less than what it is right now. |
TrollBerserker[PFM] ⚡ (#110675) Interstellar View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-03-18 01:14:35 |
Bump because I get yet another Albino in Red breeding. Can we PLEASE have Albino follow regular base rules alredy? 0 players like this post! Like? |
Oswin ~Clean Sunset Ferus~ (#24075) True King View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-03-20 21:18:46 |
I'd like to note here that I just kinged a new Sunset boy and promptly did a mass breeding with like every lioness in heat I could breed. He's got like fifty cubs total now, and about seven or eight of them came out albinos. That's literally almost a fifth of the cubs a RED-GROUP LION popped (around 13% according to my dubious math skills). Only ONE of their mothers were even in Black group, and she was a Black/Dark, not Black/Light. Now, with the right markings (and a high number of them) albino isn't always awful, especially when trying for Cloudburst. I've actually had some quite pretty albinos. But most of the albinos I get aren't pretty albinos. About 95% of the albinos I get are utter potatoes with one or two marks, and they're popping up when I'm trying to breed Red-group bases. I'm getting them often enough that it's not a neat occurrence, it's a total disappointment and letdown. Especially when I stud out and shell out ~300 SB trying for a particular base and then get a litter of all albinos (also a thing that has happened to me, multiple times). I would really love to have albino pass rates lowered, or something else added to make them not such a disappointment. 0 players like this post! Like? |
will; [sepia|fringe] (#61988)
Bone Collector View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-03-20 21:25:49 |
sksk i already posted here but i would like to add that my new sepia (red medium solid special) stud's first cub was an albino, the mother being tawny (red light countershaded common). 0 players like this post! Like? |
Unova, Rebellion's overseer (#51172) Maneater View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-03-20 22:40:37 |
I did a den wide mass breeding, with my current king, a demonic based male. Though I will admit that my pride is a genetic mix-bag on the best days, there is no logical way under StarClan that 3/4 of the cubs should have been albinos. Can we please get this fixed before I stop breeding all together....because this is just depressing. {As a note, I have turned to Mass kulling all albinos my king produces just to keep them off the markets..} 0 players like this post! Like? Edited on 20/03/19 @ 22:42:38 by Unova Solarflare{StampsWelcome (#51172) |
Rhaegar - The Raven King (#25467) Maneater View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-03-23 10:41:22 |
Another day with a few Albinos, I'm going to start bumping this thread as much as I can. I'm done with this. 0 players like this post! Like? |
hmlove1218 (#155828)
Blessed View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-03-23 20:40:05 |
I'm starting to notice that it would appear that albinos seem to get the better genetics more often. Almost every single albino I get has a royal mane. All of my other cubs I've got like a 1/5 chance. But every flipping albino has one... ETA: Just realised I posted from my other account, but it seems to still fit. I have even less chance of a regular cub having a royal mane on this account, but about half of the albino cubs have one.... 0 players like this post! Like? Edited on 23/03/19 @ 20:43:08 by hmlove1218 [dawn orchid] (#155828) |
Desolace, Colorbomb (#36375)
Phoenix View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-03-24 01:33:31 |
I kill or abandon most albinos, they have to be super pretty for me to keep it. I feel like albino should be in with the cream, as well as white and clear white. It really doesnt belong in the black range. 0 players like this post! Like? Edited on 24/03/19 @ 01:34:20 by 🐉Faramir, Nadir Smilus (#36375) |
Razz {Side} (#36422)
King of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-03-26 11:22:53 |
[♰] Yharnam (#112370)
Holy View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-03-26 18:51:38 |
I'm still bumping this every day. I'm glad to see this building supports more fast. Really hope this shit gets fixed. But you know me, I just can't wait to see how many of my RED GROUP MADAGASCAR PROJECT get to be BLACK GROUP ALBINO FAILS. If I do get any, I'll doccument them here once the ladies pop. 0 players like this post! Like? Edited on 26/03/19 @ 18:53:38 by -:[ ʙᴇɴɴᴇᴛᴛ ]:- (#112370) |
Kristy (Clean Lilac/Pie) (#39386) Dreamboat of Ladies View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-03-27 20:20:57 |
[♰] Yharnam (#112370)
Holy View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-03-29 02:14:32 |
One albino last batch, and looks like it was the highest statted and nicest marked. Had Maroons born and didn't get even a bit of the shit this little brat did. Another group of seven ladies are in heat. I'll try to remember to report the numbers. 0 players like this post! Like? |
[♰] Yharnam (#112370)
Holy View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-04-01 05:46:12 |
Leviafan (#152227)
King of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-04-05 12:30:00 |
Support for doing something! It'd be one thing if it were an occasional disappointment (or not, if it were made rare/special) but whatever the rate is currently feels too high. (Unless they're going for an effect like recessive genes, but I would rather it was spelled out if that's the case.) Recently I got a 2-cub litter of albinos from a dark/medium mating. TWO albinos? It would make sense for the chance to be higher with black genetics (which is what the parents of that litter were), but I get them all the time with my cream and golden breedings too. 0 players like this post! Like? |
[♰] Yharnam (#112370)
Holy View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-04-06 02:18:25 |
Rhaegar - The Raven King (#25467) Maneater View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-04-06 16:11:14 |