Posted by -LOCKED - -ADDED TO THE GAME-Fix Albino Pass Rules || 1059+/-37

Razz {Side} (#36422)

King of the Jungle
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-02-13 09:45:20
For all who are worried- this is not to eliminate the base or even prevent it from passing at all, this is just to get the base to follow the rules of genetics that Lioden has, OR to significantly lower the chance of it cropping up outside of its genetic groups.

For me, this is the most frustrating thing in game.

The albino base can pass from anything. It ignores every piece of genetics in the game, and hurts specific color breeders hugely.

Albino is a Black Light Solid base. According to the wiki:
"If you were to cross two parents from the Black colour group, all of their subsequent offspring will have bases from the Black colour group. If you cross a Black colour group parent with a Cream colour group parent, you will end up with offspring from both the Black and Cream colour groups."

"Dark x Dark = Dark
Light x Light = Light
Dark x Light = 25% Dark, 25% Light, 50% Medium
Medium x Medium = 15% Dark, 15% Light, 70% Medium
Dark x Medium = 50% Dark, 50% Medium
Light x Medium = 50% Light, 50% Medium"

"Breeding with gradients is a bit simpler than shades. If you cross two Countershaded parents, all offspring will be Countershaded. If you cross two Solid parents, all offspring will be Solid. If you cross a Countershaded with a Solid, you can have cubs from either gradient!"

Now. Considering this information, let me show you my most recent litter, and a prime example of what albino is doing.

This is Concha
Her information is as follows:
Nacre
Cream Dark Countershaded special

Her mate for this most recent breeding was Lord Kumba
His information is as follows:
Nacre
Cream Dark Countershaded special

According to this, cubs should look only like this in respect to genetics:
Cream Group, Dark Shade, Countershaded Gradient.
Because it is a Cream x Cream breeding, all cubs are cream.
Because it is a Dark x Dark breeding, all cubs are dark.
Because it is a Countershaded x Countershaded breeding, all cubs are countershaded.

But then we get to her firstborn daughter.

This is the cub
I am not protecting her so that link will probably die out soon. To prevent this from being lost, here are all of the screenshots that pertain to the cub's information.

Currents and Stats, Parents
Breeding Info
Appearance

What is this albino?
Black, not Cream, Light, not Dark, Solid, not Countershaded.

This is a huge conflict in breeding and it is exceptionally difficult when a breeder has to deal with this in their litters.

The issue is that, with many breeders, not only the fact that albino can pass from anything and ignores all genetics, but how often it happens. If I have any sort of breeding going, from 2 lionesses to 20, at least 1-2 of the cubs will be albino.

What I am suggesting is as follows:
A: Making it so that albino obeys normal genetics like everything else
or, for all those who say that albino should be able to pass from anything because it's an 'unnatural' base (it's not achromia, it's not a mutation, it is a BASE, just a reminder!)
B: Significantly lowering the chance of it appearing randomly in litters. A 0.1-0.5% chance should suffice. There is no reason that it should show its face so often among our litters, make it a surprise rather than a disappointment.
Maximum Storm (#114957) suggested perhaps making it a lower chance for everything other than black with a slightly higher rate of appearing with black bases!
And now, thanks to Thalath and Bezthiel...
C: Adjust albinos classification to Black Light Solid Special. Black has a lot of specials already, but not many in that particular class (light solid). Restrain it to it's genetics, and then make it be an applicable special base like Onyx or Maltese. This way it can be a slightly more useful base, and it would fix the issue of how underappreciated the base is right now.
D: Suggested by Seabunny #114144. Make Achromia and Melanism inheritable mutations, and give Albino a new name, locking it into its own group but still allowing for people who like the idea behind it to be able to breed for Achromias that result in the same 'albino' look.
E: Combined Suggestions. Make Albino a special base, and then make it a breed only occurrence. No longer applicable from the oasis, a special class, the demand for Albinos and their appearance on rarer lions (high statters, tigons and leopons, other mutations etc), would skyrocket

I know that renaming albino is a rejected suggestion but I'm still going to keep the option here because I feel that giving as many possible fixes to the solution is a better idea than giving one suggestion that 90% of people dislike even if 80 of those 90% would support the fact that albino needs to be fixed somehow.

Edit 2/14
River #6903
"Yes. This made sense if we had no achromia mutation, but we do so...."
As they said, the Achromia mutation negates the need for albino to pass from anything. Albino isn't a mutation, so it should not pass like a mutation does. It should obey the normal base genetics like all other bases have to.

Edit 2/15
According to Taevali and Kristy, based on their experiences, the pass rate is roughly 15-20%, meaning that in 100 cubs bred from ANY base 15-20 of them will have albino bases. That is ridiculously high, and overpopulates the game with this base. According to Bezthiel, it was at one point only 3%, but it feels much more than that and may have been raised.

Edit 2/16
New fix suggestion implemented!

Edit 2/19
Coal #133177 has suggested that the rate be adjusted to something closer to 1/5000, to make it a rarer occurrence.

Edit 3/19
Adam #68231
Used the Scrying Stone before my Anjeer lioness gave birth (ended up using IBF on her anyway) and the first few results were almost all Albino, despite the stud being Sunset.

Edit 3/20
Brought up by TrotterTheOtter @27811
With how few breedings females have, the level at which albino crops up can be extremely detrimental to someone who is trying to obtain the base using just their female and an outside male. Especially if it's a Special-Special, like the July bases, the chance is already next to nothing. When you're getting albinos every litter, it's another cub less that you have a chance to get that special-special to pass. Not only is it useless on that front, but it also eliminates the chance of you obtaining a base that actually would help with breeding the base you're aiming for.

Edit 3/22
Genetics Newspost
Kudos to Nate #26405 for finding this.

This is the newspost in which Genetics were introduced. If you look a few paragraphs down, you find this quote:
aaaa.png
"Albinos can now no longer be selectively bred, and instead are a small random chance, much like a mutation. Breeding two albinos will not give you an albino unless the random chance happens. Albinos can occur in any pairing!"

I'd like to draw your attention to the last part of the first sentence. ". . . much like a mutation."

This is exactly the issue for which this thread was made. Achromia is a mutation, albino is a base. A base should not be passing like a mutation does. Not unless it is given 'special' status, and only appears within its own grouping, much like bases such as Prune or Maltese. Both bases occur rarely without a parent that carries the base, but they can occur randomly within the group of their color. If you need proof of this, I'm happy to go snatch up the little Prune baby my Anjeer and his non-prune lass made earlier this week. That random occurrence of the base is damaging to color breeders, and because it isn't even Special genetics, we have literally no use for it. To further this, by having a base that is "much like a mutation", the game is negating it's own money-maker. Mutations are, simply put, a huge part of the Lioden economy. These are mainly centered around the passable muts, but regardless, they are all selling for GB. GB is the lifeblood of Lioden, it is what keeps the game running. When you negate the functionality of mutations by simply having a base that is "much like a mutation", the game and it's makers are damaging themselves.

The reason it occurred randomly before mutations were input is because there were no genetics in place. Either way, the random chance infused with the base is useless and extremely harmful to breeders who go for color specifically. That is why this thread is here.

Edit: 5/20
RottAndArtist brings up a good point!
With the addition of Clear White to the endless list of bases Lioden has, Albino becomes even more useless. If it were combined with its group, or as Rott also suggested, had its pass rate extremely lowered, it may become more and more coveted!

It appears that the Mods have been making an attempt to counterbalance the distress around random albinos with certain updates, (ex, its use in Cloudburst breeding), but this does not make it OK to have this level of random albinos! 3.5% pass rate? That's ridiculous!!!

This is a plea to the mods, please, lets get this under control.

There may soon be a higher demand for the 'white' bases with the coming of Tigons. White Tigers could be a high demand creation due to the aesthetic. However, Clear White is a custom base. And it's a custom special base. This overrides Albinos use in this manner. By adjusting its class (special), or making it a breed only thing with a actually, genuinely low pass rate, we could see a rise in the number of people who enjoy and covet the albino base.

Also: Concha has died and was my sister's lion in the end. She was not saved due to lack of room, so her link is now dead!
If you don't support, please tell me why!


---


ALBINO PASS RATE SCRY STUDY
Official Results Document

Black Solid x Black Solid
Total Rate: 2/50, 4% Albino Pass

Black Countershaded x Black Countershaded
Total Rate: 2/50, 4% Albino Pass

Black Total Pass Rate: 4%

Cream Solid x Cream Solid
Total Rate: 1/50, 2% Albino Pass

Cream Countershaded x Cream Countershaded
Total Rate: 0/50, 0% Albino Pass

Cream Total Pass Rate: 1%

Golden Solid x Golden Solid
Total Rate: 1/50, 2% Albino Pass

Golden Countershaded x Golden Countershaded
Total Rate: 2/50, 4% Albino Pass

Golden Total Pass Rate: 3%

Red Solid x Red Solid
Total Rate: 2/50, 4% Albino Pass

Red Countershaded x Red Countershaded
Total Rate: 3/50, 6% Albino Pass

Red Total Pass Rate: 5%

TOTAL FINAL RESULT
Total Pass Rate: 14/400, 3.5%

It appears that Red has the highest pass rate of all, with a total 5% pass rate! This is followed by Black, then Gold, and finally Cream, with a 1% pass rate.

Even a 1% pass rate is far too high!
The HIGHEST pass rate for mutations is around 1 in 250, a 0.4% pass rate. Albino random occurance, if meant to be "like a mutation", should be at MOST a 0.5% pass rate. That's 7x less than what it is right now.



This suggestion has 1094 supports and 42 NO supports.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Edited on 08/05/19 @ 11:35:34 by Razz {Side} (#36422)

💎Rarity [1K G1
Kiman Rosette] (#114707)

Divine
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-04-22 17:48:20
I kinda like that they are Random



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Razz {Side} (#36422)

King of the Jungle
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-04-22 19:15:08
@Duskie
That's why this suggestion has a bunch of options. For people like yourself who enjoy the random generation factor, there's an option that simply lowers it. All that would do would be to make a random albino at least a bit more welcomed, especially in prides like mine where I cannot use albino cubs for anything at all. It would retain the enjoyment of random, while also making it more manageable and not as devastating to those who dislike it



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

💎Rarity [1K G1
Kiman Rosette] (#114707)

Divine
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-04-22 19:18:17
@Razz
Well they are more wanted now because you can breed Cloudburst with them so couldn't people sell them for decent prices?



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

GayenaKing [Leonid
Project] (#74562)

Interstellar
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-04-22 19:20:28
Even with the new use of albinos I still find them harder to sell for the same price as any other base would go for



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

💎Rarity [1K G1
Kiman Rosette] (#114707)

Divine
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-04-22 19:22:46
*cough*ifanyoneneedstosellastubornalbinoiwillbuythem*cough*
Sorry couldn't help it xD



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Deku (#117676)

Flirty
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-04-22 19:24:17
Albino can be used to breed cloudburst. But it's so common that the supply far outweighs demand, so it really hasn't gone up in price.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Maximum Storm
{Clean/No Big 4} (#114957)

Astral
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-04-22 19:27:06
i'll be honest, i thought it was only a 5% chance, but 15-20% is pretty damn ridiculous all things considered. i definitely support lowering the pass rate in general, and I could even accept it passing a bit more with black bases since it's a black base itself (but not by much. maybe if general is 1 or 2%, black bases would be 5% chance of passing)



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

LoneyWolfy (#91462)

Lone Wanderer
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-04-22 19:31:31
I completely agree on this. The pass rate for Albinos is really disappointing, especially when your trying to do breeding projects. I always hate it when one of my lionesses are near to no longer being able to breed, then they have their last cub, and it's an Albino. They would be fine if, like you said, it was a lower chance or if it follows the genetics rules. They just mess up everything for a lot of people out there, like me, who spend so much time on projects, only to get more than enough Albinos instead.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Razz {Side} (#36422)

King of the Jungle
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-04-22 23:08:46
@Duskie
I thought it might help with that, but because there are so many already, there's still a very low demand for them. I also feel like having Cloudburst being a "Common" genetics base makes it less in demand as well (though it's very pretty)

@Maximum
I thought it was something much lower than it appears to be as well. I agree with that chance thing! I'll add that as another piece, thanks for suggesting it!

@Lonely
Thank you for the support



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Razz {Side} (#36422)

King of the Jungle
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-04-22 23:12:23
As soon as I muster up the SB, I'll be doing a test run via the scrying stone. Black x Black (countershaded), Black x Black (solid), Red x Red (countershaded), Red x Red (solid), Cream x Cream (countershaded), Cream x Cream (solid), Gold x Gold (countershaded), and Gold x Gold (solid).

I'll be using special bases for it, as this is in theory the higher demand style of base (though this obviously doesn't run for everyone).

I'll release the information in strands. Each will be 50 scrys, meaning there will be 100 scrys per color group. I'll do % pass rate per section (ex, black x black countershaded), pass rate per color (ex, black x black), and finally a total % pass rate for everything (so out of 400 scrys)



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Juminakata (River) (#6903)

Toxic
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-04-22 23:18:49
-wonders why this is still not being added with so much support and so much fucking logic behind it-



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Razz {Side} (#36422)

King of the Jungle
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-04-22 23:44:18
@River
I love your icon! And ahh thank you haha. I'm hoping that they see this at some point.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Juminakata (River) (#6903)

Toxic
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-04-22 23:47:25
lmao thanks! and yeah, it's kinda silly tbh :/



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Deku (#117676)

Flirty
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-04-23 04:19:36
Just giving my 2 cents from my knowledge of game development and coding. One reason is probably because it wouldn't be an easy fix. We don't know how exactly albinos and bases in general are coded. It might be as simple as changing a number, or as difficult as writing entirely new code from scratch. And with any change to code, there's always a good chance of bugs cropping up.
As well, since albino pass rates aren't a game-breaking bug or a recent controversial implementation (Even though it's very much annoying) it would probably be low on the list of things to code.

Though I would appreciate some feedback on if they're considering it or not.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Razz {Side} (#36422)

King of the Jungle
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-04-23 09:46:08
@Deku
Yeah, that's understandable. I'm right there with you though- it's rough not knowing if they've even seen it.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?



Topic is locked




Memory Used: 648.11 KB - Queries: 0 - Query Time: 0.00000 - Total Time: 0.00489s