Posted by [ALL] Implement Date-Based Unlocking

Finnegan II (#85926)


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Posted on
2018-04-03 15:53:31
Note: If you have additional suggestions, I would be more than happy to add them, credited to you, to the main post. Thank you.

The Issue: Fragmented Community, Stressed Staff, Constant Adjustments
Every month, the Lioden community has the same argument: event tiers are messed up or different or too high or too low. Changes are prompted, resulting in malcontent from the community. This displeasure is aimed at the staff, who surely believe that they’re doing the right thing. That’s understandable. Sometimes you have to make changes that are unpopular for the good of the community as a whole.

But, at some point, we’re just making the same mistakes and having the same argument about tier requirements to unlock each shop every month. When the staff feels like shops are being unlocked too quickly, the tiers are increased. It’s hard to estimate the output of the player base, especially pre-empting the month in question, so estimations are often wrong.

When these estimations are wrong (which is often), adjustments are made that often upset a sizeable portion of the players, and for good reason! Players don’t like feeling that their hard work to unlock a tier doesn’t mean anything if the staff don’t want tiers to open before certain dates.

The Fix: Implement Date-Based Tier Unlocking
Currently, tiers are based on player participation. We have to kill a certain number of poachers or donate a certain number of eggs or defeat a certain number of rabid NPCs. It’s not easy to estimate how many players will be playing for any specific month, as interest in certain events and items varies widely, so setting these goals is difficult in the first place.

I would like to propose utilizing date-based tier unlocking instead. Let’s take April for example:
Tier 1 of the Bunny Shop and Egg Den would open on April 7th.
Tier 2 of the Bunny Shop and Egg Den would open on April 14th.
Tier 3 of the Bunny Shop and Egg Den would open on April 21st.

That gives players a full 10 days to enjoy the last tier and prepare for next month’s event, while spacing out tier openings throughout the month, giving everyone something to look forward and removing the anxiety that comes with checking tier progress every morning and wondering if we’ll even get to tier 3 this year.

Retaining Community Engagement and “Earning” Rewards: The Issue
Some opponents of this idea might assert that it is the duty of the community to “earn” their rewards in the shop by participating actively in the event to kill x number of NPCs or gather x number of eggs. Although I do not personally agree with this and would argue that forcing the community to “earn” rewards this way is actually forcing them to earn their rewards twice (communal unlocking of tiers AND earning the currency to purchase items in those tiers as an individual), I have a few suggestions regarding keeping the community engaged and actively interacting with events.

Retaining Community Engagement: Fix Suggestion - Quest Completion
With date-based unlocking implemented, staff members will no longer need to worry about focusing on estimating user activity for the upcoming month. This frees up some time to focus on implementing new quests and storylines for each month. I know I personally love the little quests and stories that come with certain months now, like Wenet in April and Angels vs. Demons in October. I think they’re great!

Rather than forcing players to donate their currency or kill a certain number of NPCs as a community before they can access the shop, force them to complete a certain portion of the event storyline.

For example, in April, players who haven’t completed “Crafting Bones” by April 7th cannot access the first tier of the shop or egg den until they complete “Crafting Bones”. Players who haven’t completed “Crafting Fur” by April 14th cannot access the second tier of the shop or egg den until they complete “Crafting Fur.” Players who haven’t completed “Carving the Future” by April 21st cannot access the third tier of the shop or egg den until they complete “Carving the Future.”

Additionally, this removes the very troublesome prospect of donating your event currency to access event shops, where you have to purchase items with event currency.

It gives casual players a chance to access all the shops as long as they actively engage with an event and its lore. It encourages the staff to add quests and lore to months that do not currently have them, which would be great! For those months, I would currently simply suggest using the “Date-Based Unlocking” system until quests can be added.

Conclusions and Addendums
If anyone has any additional or alternate suggestions or specific suggestions for any month, I’ll gladly add them here with a credit to the user who suggested them! If my suggestion is a little too extreme for you, please consider this suggestion , made by Heda RedBox.

Argryo (84746) on Questing Requirements
"If they'd make all storylines able to be completed within 3-4 days [I think it was like that with Laharu? A few parts you could do in a row, but a couple that require a day's wait] if you roll later in the month, but still not within a single day's time [gotta get a bit of activity, even if it's once a week!], then that'd be a perfect and really cute solution from my point of view! ^^

An extra 'unlocking the shop' series of quests way, way down the line, once every month has its storyline, could be an end goal; help the April rabbit mom find her babies to access her wares! Chart out the flooding to find the Flood Pit otter! Find the shaman lost in visions to access the Shaman Shop! Etc etc etc
And for more Storyline-related ideas, you could, say... Win a series of lil' scuffles with Nirah to access his goods!! Try your best to impress that Groupie who mans the shop with V'Kai's help or Vash's advice! Track down the chimps of the Carrion shop by following Laharu's trail!

I dunno, storyline unlocks could be really, really cute and fun, so long as they don't have too many Rollover requirements. ;D"

Moonie (138561) on Rollover Rewards for More Active Players
"Perhaps daily loggers could get extra perks for completing daily quests consecutively as well? Like the rollover where doing it for so many days in a row earns you a Lucky Foot, Vulture Egg, or a bit of SB? That way there would be more incentive to complete them each day but it wouldn't be a necessity."

Heda Vampiric (56702) on Quest Completion
"To note, on the quests, and Argryo touched on this, but if the quests are required to access the shop when it unlocks, people should be able to do more than one a day if they are behind.

1. So if a user is on every day, and do their daily quest without missing one, they only get one a day (because they are not behind), but if someone didn't start playing until say, day 6, they could do up to 6 quests that day to catch up - this way players who are only able to log once or twice a week aren't barred from features because of things they can't control.

However, this would only be the case if a # of quests are required (ex: Do 7 quests to unlock tier 1), but Finn has mentioned specific quests so this next suggestion fits better:

2. Another solution is to prioritize quests. So if you don't start playing until, say, day 28, you can do all 3 required quests that day to access the features, but you have to wait until the next day to be given a normal (radial) quest. This keeps users from being barred from features but also helps put worth into logging daily for radials."



This suggestion has 416 supports and 30 NO supports.



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Edited on 23/07/19 @ 19:12:00 by a Moderator

Heda Vampiric (#56702)

Prophet
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Posted on
2018-04-05 10:40:25

Yes, you can add mine, Finn.~




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Princess (#85715)

Incredible
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Posted on
2018-04-06 12:48:34
Suggestion:

One thing I really like about the bars is seeing how much the community accomplishes working together. I also enjoy feeling like I'm contributing to a larger whole, or a greater good so to speak. It also makes me want to collect more to open the shops faster. If this was quest based it would isolate players instead of make it a community effort, and if the shops open on a specific date there's not as much motivation to participate.

What if instead, there are dates that the shops/tiers unlock, but the bar is ALSO still there and if we complete the goals early, the shops open before that date? Even after the shops are open, there would still be those players who want to achieve the monthly goals just to see the bar full and feel accomplished :)



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JaxHammer [Retiring] (#103364)

Savage
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Posted on
2018-04-06 14:07:18
Sure there is. The motivation is to get whats IN the shop. Players are plenty isolated as it is if you ask me. Events aren't multiplayer and you can't even exchange currency between accounts.

Staff has already made it clear they don't want us unlocking things before certain times. This is why they drive bar numbers so high when we reach them earlier than expected.



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GlassMountain [Side] (#48642)


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Posted on
2018-10-20 14:24:08
I'm honestly surprised this hasn't been implemented already. There are a lot of great points in this suggestion, and in the past year (or longer, I went on hiatus for a bit) I've really noticed how the resentment in the community has grown towards event tiers. As previously stated and as can be observed in the chats/forums, players are not happy when staff mess with the bars. Which is completely understandable, it's rough to get close to a goal and then have the rug ripped out from under your feet when it drops back down. It's incredibly discouraging. If specific dates were set for tiers to unlock it would cut back on a great deal of stress that players, and staff I assume, feel every month.

There's no point in constantly monitoring/adjusting the tier requirements. If staff feels we are unlocking too quickly or too slowly, this would completely resolve the issues we're facing. I don't honestly understand where this whole "we need to earn the tiers" thing comes from. You are literally earning currency by playing the game, what more do you need to feel like you deserve decor/breeding items/apps?

Complete support. I hope to see this implemented in the near future.



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Gahlu [HM | Clean] (#155415)

Impeccable
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Posted on
2018-10-26 19:59:11
Well now I fully understand the point made here. The devs obviously want tiers opened around a certain date but have this story about the 'community' needing to accomplish things to open them, which is obviously untrue.

Wanting it open on a certain date is fine. Can do that. Having the community do a bunch of stuff is also fine. Can also do that. Together the two do not mix. Someone will be punished, and it's the 'community' who loses out in the current scenario.

Date-based unlocking would be a much preferable solution. Or leave it up to the community and leave it alone. Any needed adjustments should be made when the event is NOT active.

Whats the big deal anyway? Even if the tiers were unlocked on day 1 it's not like most players will have the currency to buy the stuff they want, it'll still take time. Items and costs and all that are readily found on the wiki, it's not like events are full of surprises.

The only 'advantage' I see with the current method is that some people will lose out entirely because they can't log in on the few days the final tiers are opened. They won't even know when those days will be.

Anyway, whole-hearted support for date-based unlocking.



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Layara [gen 5 clean
uneven] (#155838)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2018-11-02 04:07:11
I like this idea a lot especially since "xyz number/???" and then having to work backwards from there like you're in algebra isn't exactly the best way to know when the next tier will be opened. I was going to suggest having the actual goal numbers shown but this seems to be a much more effective method. It would also completely get rid of the problem had in october of 2018 where the fourth tier wasn't opened until about three ish days before the event ended which given there was a new base and marking app was really bad. I know I got rid of all of my shards because I thought there was just the mane app (didn't want it) and then had to scramble like mad to get enough shards to get brimstone imprints which I only got by the skin of my teeth.

Sorry if this is rambly but TL;DR: Yes please thank you



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Bezthiel 🍉 (#81210)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2018-11-02 06:48:14
The goal numbers all used to be shown, and I assume that they are not was an attempt to curb the complaints about the ever-shifting goal number. Personally, I'm offended at the assumption that the community can't do basic algebra, but I suppose that's not the point-

Besides, even with the numbers not shown, it doesn't mean the tiers will open when they obviously want them to. And it doesn't mean they aren't shifting the goals around.



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Layara [gen 5 clean
uneven] (#155838)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2018-11-02 06:54:19
@bezthiel: I more meant I don't want to do algebra, a subject I rarely got above a "you're making it by the skin of your teeth" grade in even in the most remedial courses, just to figure out how much we've got left not nobody here can do algebra. I personally hate and can't do algebra so yeah I miss the goal posts being visible



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Edited on 02/11/18 @ 06:54:47 by Layara (#155838)

Bezthiel 🍉 (#81210)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2018-11-02 06:56:59
No, no, not you lol. I mean I'm slightly offended that staff wold just put ???? like none of us can do math. I also frickin' despise having to do math in a fun game. I've been outta school for more'n a decade, don't make me go back



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Layara [gen 5 clean
uneven] (#155838)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2018-11-02 06:59:06
Edit by 2020 Layara: I was there for the 2018 "scandal" during, I believe, the October event either that or the one with the harbinger. Either way this should help staff avoid "oh crap they're unlocking this before we've finished everything someone stop the count". I assume this is what happens when they do decide to just mess with the tier unlocks



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Edited on 20/11/20 @ 22:52:25 by Layara (#155838)

Korb (#2663)

Usual
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Posted on
2019-02-19 14:30:05
I'm still waiting for them to add this. pls



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Edited on 19/02/19 @ 14:37:46 by Risio (#2663)

Wénduō
文多 (#107962)

Prince of Terror
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Posted on
2019-02-19 14:48:12
Love this suggestion, as a person who stress a lot! Making tiers require certain days instead of event based numbers would sure calm probably most down.



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JaxHammer [Retiring] (#103364)

Savage
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Posted on
2019-02-19 16:13:10
Still waiting for this to be a thing. Absolutely no reason for event bars.

They aren't fun, not in the slightest.



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Edited on 19/02/19 @ 16:13:34 by JaXter [Sunrise/Dawn] (#103364)

Heda Vampiric (#56702)

Prophet
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Posted on
2019-04-05 00:13:51
While the staff have fixed the donation problem, they’re still bumping our bars around when we get somewhere “too fast”, so pulling this topic up once again.



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Pan! {Sutekh Ferus} (#15435)

Buzzkill
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Posted on
2019-04-14 14:03:32
This needs to happen, even if the issue only arises occasionally. It'd be easier and more streamlined for everyone, staff included!



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