Posted by [ALL] Implement Date-Based Unlocking

Finnegan II (#85926)


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Posted on
2018-04-03 15:53:31
Note: If you have additional suggestions, I would be more than happy to add them, credited to you, to the main post. Thank you.

The Issue: Fragmented Community, Stressed Staff, Constant Adjustments
Every month, the Lioden community has the same argument: event tiers are messed up or different or too high or too low. Changes are prompted, resulting in malcontent from the community. This displeasure is aimed at the staff, who surely believe that they’re doing the right thing. That’s understandable. Sometimes you have to make changes that are unpopular for the good of the community as a whole.

But, at some point, we’re just making the same mistakes and having the same argument about tier requirements to unlock each shop every month. When the staff feels like shops are being unlocked too quickly, the tiers are increased. It’s hard to estimate the output of the player base, especially pre-empting the month in question, so estimations are often wrong.

When these estimations are wrong (which is often), adjustments are made that often upset a sizeable portion of the players, and for good reason! Players don’t like feeling that their hard work to unlock a tier doesn’t mean anything if the staff don’t want tiers to open before certain dates.

The Fix: Implement Date-Based Tier Unlocking
Currently, tiers are based on player participation. We have to kill a certain number of poachers or donate a certain number of eggs or defeat a certain number of rabid NPCs. It’s not easy to estimate how many players will be playing for any specific month, as interest in certain events and items varies widely, so setting these goals is difficult in the first place.

I would like to propose utilizing date-based tier unlocking instead. Let’s take April for example:
Tier 1 of the Bunny Shop and Egg Den would open on April 7th.
Tier 2 of the Bunny Shop and Egg Den would open on April 14th.
Tier 3 of the Bunny Shop and Egg Den would open on April 21st.

That gives players a full 10 days to enjoy the last tier and prepare for next month’s event, while spacing out tier openings throughout the month, giving everyone something to look forward and removing the anxiety that comes with checking tier progress every morning and wondering if we’ll even get to tier 3 this year.

Retaining Community Engagement and “Earning” Rewards: The Issue
Some opponents of this idea might assert that it is the duty of the community to “earn” their rewards in the shop by participating actively in the event to kill x number of NPCs or gather x number of eggs. Although I do not personally agree with this and would argue that forcing the community to “earn” rewards this way is actually forcing them to earn their rewards twice (communal unlocking of tiers AND earning the currency to purchase items in those tiers as an individual), I have a few suggestions regarding keeping the community engaged and actively interacting with events.

Retaining Community Engagement: Fix Suggestion - Quest Completion
With date-based unlocking implemented, staff members will no longer need to worry about focusing on estimating user activity for the upcoming month. This frees up some time to focus on implementing new quests and storylines for each month. I know I personally love the little quests and stories that come with certain months now, like Wenet in April and Angels vs. Demons in October. I think they’re great!

Rather than forcing players to donate their currency or kill a certain number of NPCs as a community before they can access the shop, force them to complete a certain portion of the event storyline.

For example, in April, players who haven’t completed “Crafting Bones” by April 7th cannot access the first tier of the shop or egg den until they complete “Crafting Bones”. Players who haven’t completed “Crafting Fur” by April 14th cannot access the second tier of the shop or egg den until they complete “Crafting Fur.” Players who haven’t completed “Carving the Future” by April 21st cannot access the third tier of the shop or egg den until they complete “Carving the Future.”

Additionally, this removes the very troublesome prospect of donating your event currency to access event shops, where you have to purchase items with event currency.

It gives casual players a chance to access all the shops as long as they actively engage with an event and its lore. It encourages the staff to add quests and lore to months that do not currently have them, which would be great! For those months, I would currently simply suggest using the “Date-Based Unlocking” system until quests can be added.

Conclusions and Addendums
If anyone has any additional or alternate suggestions or specific suggestions for any month, I’ll gladly add them here with a credit to the user who suggested them! If my suggestion is a little too extreme for you, please consider this suggestion , made by Heda RedBox.

Argryo (84746) on Questing Requirements
"If they'd make all storylines able to be completed within 3-4 days [I think it was like that with Laharu? A few parts you could do in a row, but a couple that require a day's wait] if you roll later in the month, but still not within a single day's time [gotta get a bit of activity, even if it's once a week!], then that'd be a perfect and really cute solution from my point of view! ^^

An extra 'unlocking the shop' series of quests way, way down the line, once every month has its storyline, could be an end goal; help the April rabbit mom find her babies to access her wares! Chart out the flooding to find the Flood Pit otter! Find the shaman lost in visions to access the Shaman Shop! Etc etc etc
And for more Storyline-related ideas, you could, say... Win a series of lil' scuffles with Nirah to access his goods!! Try your best to impress that Groupie who mans the shop with V'Kai's help or Vash's advice! Track down the chimps of the Carrion shop by following Laharu's trail!

I dunno, storyline unlocks could be really, really cute and fun, so long as they don't have too many Rollover requirements. ;D"

Moonie (138561) on Rollover Rewards for More Active Players
"Perhaps daily loggers could get extra perks for completing daily quests consecutively as well? Like the rollover where doing it for so many days in a row earns you a Lucky Foot, Vulture Egg, or a bit of SB? That way there would be more incentive to complete them each day but it wouldn't be a necessity."

Heda Vampiric (56702) on Quest Completion
"To note, on the quests, and Argryo touched on this, but if the quests are required to access the shop when it unlocks, people should be able to do more than one a day if they are behind.

1. So if a user is on every day, and do their daily quest without missing one, they only get one a day (because they are not behind), but if someone didn't start playing until say, day 6, they could do up to 6 quests that day to catch up - this way players who are only able to log once or twice a week aren't barred from features because of things they can't control.

However, this would only be the case if a # of quests are required (ex: Do 7 quests to unlock tier 1), but Finn has mentioned specific quests so this next suggestion fits better:

2. Another solution is to prioritize quests. So if you don't start playing until, say, day 28, you can do all 3 required quests that day to access the features, but you have to wait until the next day to be given a normal (radial) quest. This keeps users from being barred from features but also helps put worth into logging daily for radials."



This suggestion has 416 supports and 30 NO supports.



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Edited on 23/07/19 @ 19:12:00 by a Moderator

↞Vati↠ /softly
quiting/ (#198713)

Asshole
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Posted on
2021-02-25 10:24:19
if we are unlocking bars "too fast", that is def sign there should be date...

I find some fun in community unlocking... esp if you are someone who doesn't have time to play, but you can still enjoy other tiers. but at same...
firefly forest took so, so long to unlock. and it made me realize how much I really hate community unlocking. I felt like I am the only one working and caring on unlocking it. I feel like for some stuff some people work a lot and spend their items, energy and what not to help unlocking, while others just sit and wait.
makes me think that personal counter would be better, but then that would be bad for people who can't play even if they want due to life stuff

just give us date and done, please



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Fern [main] (#158699)


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Posted on
2021-04-29 00:14:35
Bringing this back up since April will be over the day after tomorrow, yet tier 3 egg den is still only at 94% and moving at a snail's pace compared to bunny shop (which is at 127% as of posting). Wasn't there once a year where primordial spring wasn't unlocked AT ALL? Let's hope that never happens again

Anyway, I definitely support in general too.



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Datrandomcat (#166891)

Aztec Knight
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Posted on
2021-04-29 06:01:02
Agreed with Fern!
I was actually wondering weither the staff will open it up manually if we don't manage to complete it.

Also now this makes me feel bad for skipping certain events
I might just simply not care for them, but I don't want to punish others yeah?
I wouldn't want to be punished either by other players innactivity either. Especially not since the majority of the player base has jobs and studies to attend, and then just life in general too.
What I am trying to say is, tiers not opening feels kinda like a collcective punishment which just sucks big time—



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Before (#25066)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2021-04-29 09:23:51
I'm torn on this.

On one hand, I'm writing this in the same April as the above two posts, where it looks like either the Primordeal Spring isn't going to unlock this year, or if it does, it'll be really late in the day on the last day. And I am a little frustrated because I did the math and I've done more than my fair share looking at the number of active users when I'm on, and I've been planning my succession on the assumption I'd be able to Fall Back on my current king.

At the same time, stuff like the Primordeal Spring seem to be something that should be earned, not just given to the community. Shops make sense to be unlocked on a schedule, as even if you drop in after they've all been unlocked, you still need to earn the currency to buy the best items. But when it comes to stuff that any player can access without effort once it's unlocked, such as NCLs with special marks, November's Shaman Pit, December's Wallowing Pit, and yes, April's Primordeal Spring, unlocking them on a schedule cheapens them a bit.

But I also wouldn't want those to be locked solely behind individual effort, either, because I have experience being so busy irl I can't be active other than on weekends, too. I wouldn't want players that can currently access top-tier prizes to be unable to access them due to a change.

So maybe a hybrid approach would be best? Like, everyone gets an individual goal, and if they meet that goal, the tiers of special items unlock on a specific date if the community as a whole hasn't reached the community goal yet. If the community goal is reached, it unlocks for everyone regardless of individual effort.

For example, let's say the individual goal for the Primordeal Spring is 500 Carved Easter Eggs obtained in the month. Anyone who reaches that number will have the Primordeal Spring (and associated Wenet quest) unlocked on April 24th or later if they achieve it after that date. Or, if the community reaches the community goal of 500,000 Carved Easter Eggs obtained, it unlocks for everyone regardless of when it happens. So if the community comes together for it, it can be unlocked earlier than with individual effort alone, but individuals can still guarantee they have personal access if the community doesn't reach the main goal.



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Datrandomcat (#166891)

Aztec Knight
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Posted on
2021-04-29 12:45:22
While I'm not quite sure if I agree with Before's points about how things should or shouldn't get handled out, I really like the idea of the hybrid solution even if I favour the quest-centered suggestion more.

On another tanget, it also just occured to me that in hindsight, having the eggs randomly break also messes with the goal count.

Whereas getting rabbit bodies is always succesfull as long as you have Wenet's mask on, so it will be much easier to unlock. Then count also the fact that you can get 9 fluffball points in one single encounter, while you top max get 2 eggs.
And in these encounters you always get atleast 1 carcass/fluffball point, while there is a good chance you get nothing when choosing the egg option.
I suppose the staff assumed that the sheer drive force to get eggs would outbalance the rng, but they weren't right in their calculus here obviously.
Why do eggs even break in the game in the first place? I guess for increased difficulty but why this way? I get that eggs are fragile, but it's just stupid because of the role it has. April is the only month where you can miss out on event currency because RNGjesus hates you.
Doesn't quite make sense, if I think about it, even if missing event currency on random never really bothered me personally tbh.



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Finnegan II (#85926)


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Posted on
2021-04-29 13:51:32
Well. I made this thread three years ago, pfft. Hello, I suppose? Haha. I'm not even sure I agree with my old suggestion, but I'm glad we're talking about the general issue of the tiers again.



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Edited on 29/04/21 @ 13:52:18 by Finnegan II (#85926)

JaxHammer [Retiring] (#103364)

Savage
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Posted on
2021-05-20 23:14:10
Bringing this back because we only got 9-10 days of this event left and we still arent at Tier 2 and that's ridiculous lmfao.



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Edited on 20/05/21 @ 23:38:28 by JaxHammer [NudarRL 8/10m King] (#103364)

Baffled (#168483)

UwU
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Posted on
2021-05-21 00:55:35
Absolute support for shops opening on a set day, was actually about start looking for this suggestion. 10 days left and we haven't even reached tier two yet. 50k more championships still need to be held and that won't be achieved by at the very least tomorrow and at most 3 days time. I'm seriously questing what's going to happen with tier 3 because I no clue.



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Slade (#36600)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2021-05-21 01:41:17
Ive noticed a huge drop in players being online this month. And its likely because its not a very popular event. I stopped participating in the arena. Im sick of the constant losing going on. The stat stretch was made to help higher stat kings have competition but I think its hugely demotivational for kings at the lower ends of the tiers. As a result, I think many players are just not playing, and the shop just isnt opening as a result. May needs a whole new set up, but until then I can see the shops opening by dates rather than participation. Support.



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Datrandomcat (#166891)

Aztec Knight
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Posted on
2021-05-21 04:56:51
Looks like the issue of unlocking important things on the last day wasn't simply an April thing, as others have pointed it out. I very much dread tier 3 opening on the last day.



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JaxHammer [Retiring] (#103364)

Savage
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Posted on
2021-05-21 13:19:45
Staff manually increased the progress bar.

Like what's the point of even having it if you're going to either
1) Do nothing and piss the whole community off.
2) Intervene anyway

Like? Bruh, just add dated unlocks already. Why do we have to play this game every year?



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Fooxie (#228221)


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Posted on
2021-05-22 03:10:31
THIS!! May only has 9 days left and we only just unlocked the second tier! I hope the final tier opens, otherwise I would’ve wasted so much time grinding for red bulls and lion scrots-



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JaxHammer [Retiring] (#103364)

Savage
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Posted on
2021-05-22 03:15:44
We didn't even legitimately unlock the 2nd tier. Staff messed around with the numbers.



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di (#126735)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2021-05-24 07:40:58
YES. THIS. I hate hate HATE having to rely on the efforts of the community to unlock things. Some months don't have as many people participating. Some months are just harder for people event-wise, be it with quests or fighting opponents and such.

It really feels unfair that we miss out on things because the community wasn't able to unlock things in enough time. Having things unlock on set dates would be SO MUCH BETTER.

If not that, then at least have personal goals set. Each player has to reach the goal by themselves to unlock things. I'd prefer the date option more though.

The whole relying on the community to get things unlocked is just old and annoying. :(



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Quould #ALM (#236121)

Kind
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Posted on
2021-07-07 21:53:11
I like this idea. Support.



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