-LOCKED - A Statement About Moderating
Posted on 2019-02-21 12:54:31
Hi all, Abbey here on behalf of the admin and moderating teams.

We'd like to announce right now that in the coming weeks we are planning on removing moderator badges across the entire site. We are not demoting moderators or getting rid of any systems, we are just removing the badge from visible areas next to player names. We hope that this will make the game a better place to be for both players and moderators, and hope that moderators and players can have a less tense relationship with one another.

Addressing Moderating Concerns


We would like to take this opportunity to address some concerns that players have raised with regards to the moderating system.

The anonymity of moderators within the modbox has now been in effect for over a year and over this time we have seen that this system has worked very well from behind the scenes. However, we do acknowledge that there has been some scepticism from various members over how this system actually works.

So for the sake of transparency and clarification, we'd like to give some insight to our moderating practices and how the system works for moderators and admins versus members.

Firstly, a PSA:
Moderators and admins are two very different roles on the site.

Admins are the group of staff who handle the game's functionality and features. They each have different roles, but they talk with each other on a daily basis about various things regarding running the game. Admins decide when rules should change, when changes to the game should be made, they are responsible for the coding and artwork coordination, and general behind-the-scenes stuff. The community admins work daily with the moderators whereas the non-community admins do not.

Moderators are volunteer members of the team who help us handle rule-breaking members. They are sometimes asked for input on various changes to how we moderate, rule changes, but ultimately have no control over the main parts of the game. They do not have the ability to change event bars, or add items to shops, or anything like that. Moderators are purely for moderating the forums, chat and players as a whole. They enforce the rules, and have no ability to edit the game in any way.

Anonymous Moderators
On the front-end of the modbox, we changed it so that members could no longer see specifically which moderator was handling their ticket.

This change was made primarily to cease some of the targeting that staff were seeing from members after having a decision made on their ticket that the member disagreed with. Additionally, if a moderator took some time to respond, they would sometimes start receiving PMs.

A lesser-known reason for why we changed the modbox to only show "Moderating Team" is because we felt as though it was dishonest of us to claim that one single person handled a ticket. This sometimes turned into a moderator being disliked because they were viewed as being the sole person who made a decision that someone didn't like, when in fact that decision likely had the input and support of multiple moderators and an admin.

Additionally, ANY response from a specific admin came with the support and input of every single member on the admin team, regardless of who actually claimed and handled that ticket.

Why do tickets take so long sometimes?
Firstly, the vast majority of tickets have at least a second opinion from another moderator or an admin. Moderators do not moderate and make decisions alone as a rule. Those that take longer to resolve often have the input of a large portion of the moderating team and sometimes multiple admins. This takes time for everyone to have a discussion, give their input, and ultimately come to a decision on what to do.

Just like players, moderators act under a specific ruleset, they are under constant supervision of admins and other moderators. Moderators have never banned a user for no reason - we always act on information or reports. If we believe we have made a mistake in our decisions, we will try to correct it and inform the player involved.

Why did X get punished, but Y didn't? Why did Z get banned for doing nothing?
Because we don't discuss player punishments publicly, the only time any information about reprimands comes out is from the player themselves. Sometimes a player disagrees with a decision we have made and will tell friends that they got a raw deal.

This is fine, we appreciate that everyone takes away a different account of what happened, but please be aware that there is always more to the story.

Additionally, if one player was punished for something but another player wasn't - we ask you to please trust that we handle all reports of rule-breaking behaviour fairly according to our terms of service and code of conduct. It is possible that they have received punishment, perhaps not the same as you because there were a different set of circumstances surrounding the event, or for a variety of other reasons.

If you witness a user breaking the rules, then we strongly advise you to report that behaviour to us. We rely very heavily on reports of rule-breaking behaviour - we encourage members to report anonymously when they come across this on the site.

Why don't you discuss player punishments publicly?
Logs of player punishments actually fall under "personal data" as of the GDPR of May 2018 so we legally cannot disclose any information about player punishment with other members.

We have always had this rule in place, however, so that is not the full reason. We dislike bringing up player punishments due to the subjectivity of what has happened to cause the punishment. Moderators have to rule on varying degrees of the same rule.

For instance, what exactly constitutes scamming? How can we tell this was a definite scam? Where do we draw the line on what is a scam and what is just a promise transaction that never went through due to various reasons? What effect does this scam have on the victims, and the economy as a whole?

Additionally, we prioritise the maintenance of a user's privacy - nobody should be privy to what happens as the result of a ticket other than the moderating team and that user.

We heard you don't use off-site evidence but there have been some times you have used it?
We don't use off-site evidence as a general rule because it is very easy to fake screenshots, or impersonate someone when we don't have the back-end information that Lioden provides to us. If there is concrete evidence that this person has definitely done something offsite (e.g. is selling Lioden items/lions for real money) and we can verify it on Lioden then we will happily take off-site evidence into account.

Moderating - moving forward
We want to continue being a great team who works together to moderate Lioden. We hope that removing the moderator paws from moderators will allow them to play the game normally, as a real member. They have been forced into the spotlight since day one and we'd like to offer them the opportunity to sit back and enjoy the game as a member once more.

However, this doesn't mean there are no longer mods. We will be ensuring that we keep a team fully stocked and raring to go so that any reports and tickets created by members are handled promptly and fairly.

We would respectfully ask that you don't message formerly listed mods about whether they are still a moderator or not as we believe they are entitled to their privacy with this change.

If you encounter an unfair ruling or something that isn't handled how you think it should be, we still encourage you to report your ticket to the support email (support@lioden.com) or Abbey (#1).

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If you have any transparency questions, or questions about how we moderate and why we make some decisions, please ask and we will try to answer in admin responses over the following few days. Please keep in mind we will not answer questions about specific cases.



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Heda Vampiric (#56702)

Prophet
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:29:12
Thanks for the speedy reply @admins. I have a follow up question for clarity if you wouldn't mind answering it as well.

" if it concerns a moderator, that ticket will become invisible to that moderator. "

Does this mean that it will flag it from them regardless of how it is report, such as if you report a lion they own, forum thread they create, or trade they have up. What if it's a basic ticket (that doesn't have any specific items of the site flagged in it) but merely just called them by user ID?

Will the ticket be sorted and flagged before they can ever see it, or will it have to be manually flagged by them / another mod? I'm still concerned that they will see it, and I will admit this makes me very uneasy about ever reporting players again.


Admin Response:
We can do automatic filtering and checking so that they never have to see it, it will never exist for them.


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Account As Dead As
My Future (#108897)

Remarkable
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:30:39
Reporting Players 9/10 doesn't do anything



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Heda Vampiric (#56702)

Prophet
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:33:21
Alright then. Thanks for the answers. As a naturally cautious person I'm still rather unsettled, but this will probably ease others.



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Telly| x3 Rose,
daedal, ice (#51014)

Amazing
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:37:05
Who would I pm to talk about this kind of stuff? So I might can have a conversation instead of a bits and pieces forum post?

What I meant is, give moderators a moderating account marked as a mod with a mod badge and remove any and all evidence that their playing "non moderator" account can make friends and blend into the community.


Admin Response:
You can send an email or PM Abbey (#1) if you wish to speak to an admin, or you could modbox this and request it to be escalated to the admins, but admins are replying here. However, I still don't see what the difference would be - their non moderator account would be the same as we are proposing - nobody would be able to tell that they have a secret mod account, so it's the same difference, surely?


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JaxHammer [Retiring] (#103364)

Sinister
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:39:23
Well, berries, it's not really open communication if it's turned into harassment. Besides, communications can be done via modbox or mod messages. However, like one user said, its common practice to get the name/ID number of the employee helping you. This is so there's no funny business. Hiding moderators is the exact opposite of transparency.

If there's a user on Lioden harassing you, block them. Same with tumblr, Animo, whatever.



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DrunkHedgedog (#86439)

Cursed
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:41:46
Admin Response:
They are still able to handle those situations, whether anonymous or not.

I though that the reason of all this was to protect them from us, when dealing with us is their work, actually the work that they had apply to. (Note: even if I say us, I'm a nice player xD)



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🦐 Aardwolf 🍤 (#46899)

Buzzkill
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:45:21
Y'all see why just saying "just trust us" is worrying, right? It's reasonable to be anxious about losing accountability, isn't it?



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Telly| x3 Rose,
daedal, ice (#51014)

Amazing
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:45:43
Oh! I guess I repeated myself by accident! My apologies I was double tasking. I meant, one shouldnt be a ghost account and just a regular playing account set to the same stuff normal players can do and the other a marked moderating account. Both obviously having no ties to each other that are visible to players. Think of it as a side regular player account, one to help blend into the community


Admin Response:
There is no difference that I can see here, except that they would have 2 accounts. The change is the same thing - you can't tell which player is a moderator and which isn't. The only difference is the tools don't require a different account to be logged into. If, for example, a mod was playing on a different account, how could you know if they were a mod or not? They'd have a fake moderator account only.


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omalleytally (#80253)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:46:06
jaxter: i just don't understand why you would need their name or ID. it is not helpful at all unless you want to personally target or confront them.
i am going to assume you were talking about the person who said they worked at a communications company and they would give customers their name so that, when the customer called back, they could get that person.
that isn't how it works on lioden, though. you don't call back and speak to a specific mod. the admins themselves deal with the mods and can see who you talked to/worked with. i don't see the point of transparency when it runs the risk of witch hunting.
like i said before, and i will reiterate: you are asking mods to block hundreds, if not thousands of people who send them hate mail. that is counterproductive and just further divides them from the people they want to protect, and so it becomes an obstacle in their job.



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Chompchomps (#155830)


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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:48:01
ooooh hold up admins can edit our posts and stuff



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Fading Angel (G2 2k)
[Frozen] (#81854)

Holy
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:50:04
O dont think 2 accounts will work out well.
They mod in their free time, they should be able to spemd their free time on lioden enjoying it and modding at the same time.

It shouldnt be made into a job situation for them. Where they have to "work" part time or however much, when really it's still their free time



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DrunkHedgedog (#86439)

Cursed
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:50:20
@berries
An example why you want to know if you are talking to a mod:

You are trading, talking or dealing with someone that you don't really like, you get a ticket for whatever reason, It was a mod? That rude player from a couple of days ago is trying to cause me problems? How do I know? Ah, I cant, #LDtransparency


Admin Response:
You'd get a ticket only if you broke the rules. This doesn't change that.


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Edited on 21/02/19 @ 16:50:36 by DrunkHedgedog (PoopMe) (#86439)

JaxHammer [Retiring] (#103364)

Sinister
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:51:43
"i just don't understand why you would need their name or ID. it is not helpful at all unless you want to personally target or confront them." So I know who to avoid. Who to personally request to NOT speak to.

And Lmfao they dont get hatemail from "hundreds and thousands" of people. Usually it's just a handful of the same 3 vocal people making anonymous comments offsite. And even then, again, blocking features exist. Most of those people are cowards. Turn off anon on Tumblr for example and that hate slows down really fuckin' quick.

This "Just trust us/Just take our word for it" stuff doesn't sit right with me, especially when it comes from some nameless entity.



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omalleytally (#80253)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:52:05
if you didn't cause any issues or break any rules, then you need to bring it up with staff. like the admins said before, you need to report and find things out. im sure they can track tickets and such and see if there was an issue or not.



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Jay (#67490)

Scourge of Lions
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:52:29
I'm liking this, however a question popped up in my head. You have a rule against mini mods, how will we know wether someone is mini modding or an actual mod warnimg someone for doing something wrong on their watch (obviously something small not enough to warrant anything more than a reminder etc. ) ?
Does my question even make sense? Idk, I'm hella tired haha.
Anyhow hopefully the mods get some peace now!!


Admin Response:
Mods will only issue moderator commands (i.e., requesting a topic change in chat) via the official 'mod speak' options, which only moderators have the option to use. :)


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