-LOCKED - A Statement About Moderating
Posted on 2019-02-21 12:54:31
Hi all, Abbey here on behalf of the admin and moderating teams.

We'd like to announce right now that in the coming weeks we are planning on removing moderator badges across the entire site. We are not demoting moderators or getting rid of any systems, we are just removing the badge from visible areas next to player names. We hope that this will make the game a better place to be for both players and moderators, and hope that moderators and players can have a less tense relationship with one another.

Addressing Moderating Concerns


We would like to take this opportunity to address some concerns that players have raised with regards to the moderating system.

The anonymity of moderators within the modbox has now been in effect for over a year and over this time we have seen that this system has worked very well from behind the scenes. However, we do acknowledge that there has been some scepticism from various members over how this system actually works.

So for the sake of transparency and clarification, we'd like to give some insight to our moderating practices and how the system works for moderators and admins versus members.

Firstly, a PSA:
Moderators and admins are two very different roles on the site.

Admins are the group of staff who handle the game's functionality and features. They each have different roles, but they talk with each other on a daily basis about various things regarding running the game. Admins decide when rules should change, when changes to the game should be made, they are responsible for the coding and artwork coordination, and general behind-the-scenes stuff. The community admins work daily with the moderators whereas the non-community admins do not.

Moderators are volunteer members of the team who help us handle rule-breaking members. They are sometimes asked for input on various changes to how we moderate, rule changes, but ultimately have no control over the main parts of the game. They do not have the ability to change event bars, or add items to shops, or anything like that. Moderators are purely for moderating the forums, chat and players as a whole. They enforce the rules, and have no ability to edit the game in any way.

Anonymous Moderators
On the front-end of the modbox, we changed it so that members could no longer see specifically which moderator was handling their ticket.

This change was made primarily to cease some of the targeting that staff were seeing from members after having a decision made on their ticket that the member disagreed with. Additionally, if a moderator took some time to respond, they would sometimes start receiving PMs.

A lesser-known reason for why we changed the modbox to only show "Moderating Team" is because we felt as though it was dishonest of us to claim that one single person handled a ticket. This sometimes turned into a moderator being disliked because they were viewed as being the sole person who made a decision that someone didn't like, when in fact that decision likely had the input and support of multiple moderators and an admin.

Additionally, ANY response from a specific admin came with the support and input of every single member on the admin team, regardless of who actually claimed and handled that ticket.

Why do tickets take so long sometimes?
Firstly, the vast majority of tickets have at least a second opinion from another moderator or an admin. Moderators do not moderate and make decisions alone as a rule. Those that take longer to resolve often have the input of a large portion of the moderating team and sometimes multiple admins. This takes time for everyone to have a discussion, give their input, and ultimately come to a decision on what to do.

Just like players, moderators act under a specific ruleset, they are under constant supervision of admins and other moderators. Moderators have never banned a user for no reason - we always act on information or reports. If we believe we have made a mistake in our decisions, we will try to correct it and inform the player involved.

Why did X get punished, but Y didn't? Why did Z get banned for doing nothing?
Because we don't discuss player punishments publicly, the only time any information about reprimands comes out is from the player themselves. Sometimes a player disagrees with a decision we have made and will tell friends that they got a raw deal.

This is fine, we appreciate that everyone takes away a different account of what happened, but please be aware that there is always more to the story.

Additionally, if one player was punished for something but another player wasn't - we ask you to please trust that we handle all reports of rule-breaking behaviour fairly according to our terms of service and code of conduct. It is possible that they have received punishment, perhaps not the same as you because there were a different set of circumstances surrounding the event, or for a variety of other reasons.

If you witness a user breaking the rules, then we strongly advise you to report that behaviour to us. We rely very heavily on reports of rule-breaking behaviour - we encourage members to report anonymously when they come across this on the site.

Why don't you discuss player punishments publicly?
Logs of player punishments actually fall under "personal data" as of the GDPR of May 2018 so we legally cannot disclose any information about player punishment with other members.

We have always had this rule in place, however, so that is not the full reason. We dislike bringing up player punishments due to the subjectivity of what has happened to cause the punishment. Moderators have to rule on varying degrees of the same rule.

For instance, what exactly constitutes scamming? How can we tell this was a definite scam? Where do we draw the line on what is a scam and what is just a promise transaction that never went through due to various reasons? What effect does this scam have on the victims, and the economy as a whole?

Additionally, we prioritise the maintenance of a user's privacy - nobody should be privy to what happens as the result of a ticket other than the moderating team and that user.

We heard you don't use off-site evidence but there have been some times you have used it?
We don't use off-site evidence as a general rule because it is very easy to fake screenshots, or impersonate someone when we don't have the back-end information that Lioden provides to us. If there is concrete evidence that this person has definitely done something offsite (e.g. is selling Lioden items/lions for real money) and we can verify it on Lioden then we will happily take off-site evidence into account.

Moderating - moving forward
We want to continue being a great team who works together to moderate Lioden. We hope that removing the moderator paws from moderators will allow them to play the game normally, as a real member. They have been forced into the spotlight since day one and we'd like to offer them the opportunity to sit back and enjoy the game as a member once more.

However, this doesn't mean there are no longer mods. We will be ensuring that we keep a team fully stocked and raring to go so that any reports and tickets created by members are handled promptly and fairly.

We would respectfully ask that you don't message formerly listed mods about whether they are still a moderator or not as we believe they are entitled to their privacy with this change.

If you encounter an unfair ruling or something that isn't handled how you think it should be, we still encourage you to report your ticket to the support email (support@lioden.com) or Abbey (#1).

----------------------------------------------------------------

If you have any transparency questions, or questions about how we moderate and why we make some decisions, please ask and we will try to answer in admin responses over the following few days. Please keep in mind we will not answer questions about specific cases.



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Heda Vampiric (#56702)

Prophet
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:10:39
How does modbox handle it if you report a mod (since now we wont know if we are or not). Mods wouldn't know if it was them or not unless they looked at it, what's to stop that mod from accidentally getting ahold of the ticket. They could (and are probably required) to let another mod handle it or bump it to an admin), but they would now know there was a report against them, and on top of that they would know who was reporting them. I think that's what concerns me most about this.


Admin Response:
You are correct, moderators may accidentally see a ticket that is reporting them, even if they are not allowed to handle it. This is a very valid concern, and to mitigate this, we will tweak the report system so that when you report a player, if it concerns a moderator, that ticket will become invisible to that moderator. Thank you for the feedback, that is very helpful and we will make sure this is in before the update goes live.


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ambers II πŸŒ“πŸŒ  (#54263)

Famous
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:10:59
Then ban/punish the people who are harassing the mods by sending the hate mail. This shouldn't be a difficult concept. Good grief.



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DrunkHedgedog (#86439)

Cursed
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:11:19
@berries Then let them block their mails, not hide their position



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Telly| x3 Rose,
daedal, ice (#51014)

Amazing
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:12:04
Hi I'd like to add my two cents about this entire thing and hopefully make some valid points to make you guys consider some middle ground as least (whatever that may be).

So I've noticed a lot of good things and bad things about this, some are really great and some are major negatives. So I'll start out with positives.

I love how this update would make moderators more anonymous (there's also some bads), they can finally develop friendships and their friends not be accused of "sucking mod dick" or sucking up to the moderators, they can no longer be insulted or attacked as well. That's a good thing and I think moderators should be able to have these things, while still doing their job. I'm friendly acquaintances with quite a few mods and even for saying a simple hello I'm accused of sucking their dick, when in reality Im trying to create a nice friendly interaction with someone who people might be afraid of interacting with due to their position in game.

With that in mind I'd like to move on to the next point,

I think this update will cause more distance between players and the modbox (Aka the moderators) when they're receiving punishments or conversing about things that would go down in modbox. Without seeing moderators in chat, modbox and modbot will adopt a more robotic atmosphere around it, especially with some of the cookie cutter answers they give. And talking to what you may think is a robot is kind of frustrating (consider robots on phone calls). With the mod badgers players could realize that actual people were moderators in game and they openly contributed to the community as well as enforce rules in chat. Players also can no longer converse with players they know are moderators and it does create some animosity between the players now. It's...difficult to explain. I feel players are more likely to be suspicious of each other being moderators and less friendly and open conversations will be held. As someone said before, "Salem witch trial" comes to mind. A lot of accusations, people could pose as moderators, and still the old moderators will suffer from hate because who knows if they are moderators still or not. Say if DQ retires from being a moderator, she no longer moderates from the site but she still communicates in chat and has conversations and helps the community, she would still recieve hate from the community no matter what. All the old mods will even if they don't retire. The animosity just makes the hate spread towards the rest of the moderator community and may even leak into the player community since we no longer know who's a moderator or not.

I would like to suggest perhaps, giving moderators a moderating account and having them make a side account not tied to moderating in the least bit or their moderating account, and it would still have the "ghost moderating" style you guys want. Therefore moderators can be open with their one account and it'd relieve the stress of thinking "Is this player a moderator?"

Hopefully this helps you guys <3 I do appreciate all the work the moderator team has done but I just believe this choice might harm the community more than help.


Admin Response:
I really do understand what you're saying, and I really appreciate the level of effort you went into with your reply. However, if a moderator is given a moderating account as well as a playing account, then surely this is the same situation, because you won't be able to tell which players have a playing account as well as a moderating account?


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Edited on 21/02/19 @ 16:34:23 by Telephone (#51014)

JaxHammer [Retiring] (#103364)

Sinister
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:12:41
🍿



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omalleytally (#80253)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:15:13
yeah, it's a big job. but doesn't that mean we should try to avoid harassment? we literally do not have any reason to need to know who handles a ticket we submit, unless somebody plans to harass or bug them about how they handled something (which is not good!). if we have an issue with a mod, then we can
1. block them
2. report them to the admins.
believe it or not, these people aren't out to get you. do some abuse power? yes, sometimes, unfortunately. however, have you ever seen somebody report a mod and it not get handled appropriately? a lot of the times, people just don't report the mod, and that is more than half of the issue.



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Little-Coyote (#166259)

Sweetheart
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:17:06
It's confusing to me.



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JaxHammer [Retiring] (#103364)

Sinister
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:17:27
"we literally do not have any reason to need to know who handles a ticket we submit" There's this thing called accountability. Lmfao some of ya'll roll over so easily smh

If I have a bad experience with a mod, I don't wanna deal with them again. I should be able to know if Im speaking to that mod and request to speak to someone else. I've worked in customer service, this is generally how that works.



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Edited on 21/02/19 @ 16:19:10 by JaXter [Sunrise/Dawn] (#103364)

Fading Angel (G2 2k)
[Frozen] (#81854)

Holy
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:19:49
Accountability is still held though, because if there is an issue, go to an admin, and they can see who handled the ticket.

Some of you dont read. You say we roll over easy, but really, we just know how to communicate and listen



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omalleytally (#80253)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:21:00
it isn't okay to support people who are fine with harassing a mod who probably didn't handle an issue in the way they wanted. i *am* on the mods' side on this one, but not because i am "rolling over". i am assessing this on a logical standpoint. i want the mods to have a good experience on lioden, too, and that won't be achieved with hate mail in their boxes.



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JaxHammer [Retiring] (#103364)

Sinister
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:22:30
Yeah, and they can tell you they're going to handle the issue and we just have to take it on good faith that they did it. Personally, I do not and never will trust staff, especially when the issue is between a player and one of their own.

If I dont want to talk to a mod I dont like, I shouldnt have to do that. There's a blocking feature onsite so that mods dont need to be harassed here and if they dont wanna be harassed offsite, those sites also have blocking features.

Literally help yourself.


Admin Response:
Moderators are held to the same standards as players and cannot break the rules, there is no "one of their own", every player on Lioden is "one of our own", we care about all of you. We don't want you to have bad experiences on our site or with our moderators, and do all that we can to mitigate against this. We need reports so that we can look into these problems, and take appropriate action to rectify if we feel this is necessary. Moderators are human and sometimes make mistakes, and we are open about this and will always move to correct where needed, and scold or drop people from the team if the situation is extreme enough to warrant it.


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Edited on 21/02/19 @ 16:23:30 by JaXter [Sunrise/Dawn] (#103364)

DrunkHedgedog (#86439)

Cursed
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:24:19
@Berries:
Code of Conduct:
"Be respectful towards ALL members of Lioden, including moderators and admins."

Admin Response:
Moderators are not superior to you, and are bound to the same rules, terms and code of conduct that you are bound to. They simply enforce the rules.

Ok, mods are being harass. Isnt their job to handle that situations??!

Where is the point in making them anonymus??!


Admin Response:
They are still able to handle those situations, whether anonymous or not.


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punsandships (#161591)

Aztec Knight
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:26:13
sounds good :)



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JaxHammer [Retiring] (#103364)

Sinister
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:27:05
Be careful Hedgehog. Quoting the ToS is apparently minimodding XD



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omalleytally (#80253)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2019-02-21 16:27:17
1. yes, you will have to just trust they will handle the issue because, as stated in the news post, they cannot share information about punishments dealt to other players.
2. fine, you don't have to trust staff - but just realize they aren't all out to get you.
3. nobody is making you talk to a mod you don't like.
4. a lot of people want transparency and easy connections to mods, and that is the most blatant argument. when you say mods should just block their harassers, you are advocating for the opposite. now, they literally will be blocking themselves from hundreds of people, and that is totally unnecessary.

also: if they want to take on *all* the harassment cases that show up in their mail, that would probably take hours. then they would get yelled at for being biased and not focusing on the public parts of lioden. lose-lose situation.



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Edited on 21/02/19 @ 16:29:00 by 摃 berries (#80253)



Topic is locked




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