-LOCKED - A Statement About Moderating
Posted on 2019-02-21 12:54:31
Hi all, Abbey here on behalf of the admin and moderating teams.

We'd like to announce right now that in the coming weeks we are planning on removing moderator badges across the entire site. We are not demoting moderators or getting rid of any systems, we are just removing the badge from visible areas next to player names. We hope that this will make the game a better place to be for both players and moderators, and hope that moderators and players can have a less tense relationship with one another.

Addressing Moderating Concerns


We would like to take this opportunity to address some concerns that players have raised with regards to the moderating system.

The anonymity of moderators within the modbox has now been in effect for over a year and over this time we have seen that this system has worked very well from behind the scenes. However, we do acknowledge that there has been some scepticism from various members over how this system actually works.

So for the sake of transparency and clarification, we'd like to give some insight to our moderating practices and how the system works for moderators and admins versus members.

Firstly, a PSA:
Moderators and admins are two very different roles on the site.

Admins are the group of staff who handle the game's functionality and features. They each have different roles, but they talk with each other on a daily basis about various things regarding running the game. Admins decide when rules should change, when changes to the game should be made, they are responsible for the coding and artwork coordination, and general behind-the-scenes stuff. The community admins work daily with the moderators whereas the non-community admins do not.

Moderators are volunteer members of the team who help us handle rule-breaking members. They are sometimes asked for input on various changes to how we moderate, rule changes, but ultimately have no control over the main parts of the game. They do not have the ability to change event bars, or add items to shops, or anything like that. Moderators are purely for moderating the forums, chat and players as a whole. They enforce the rules, and have no ability to edit the game in any way.

Anonymous Moderators
On the front-end of the modbox, we changed it so that members could no longer see specifically which moderator was handling their ticket.

This change was made primarily to cease some of the targeting that staff were seeing from members after having a decision made on their ticket that the member disagreed with. Additionally, if a moderator took some time to respond, they would sometimes start receiving PMs.

A lesser-known reason for why we changed the modbox to only show "Moderating Team" is because we felt as though it was dishonest of us to claim that one single person handled a ticket. This sometimes turned into a moderator being disliked because they were viewed as being the sole person who made a decision that someone didn't like, when in fact that decision likely had the input and support of multiple moderators and an admin.

Additionally, ANY response from a specific admin came with the support and input of every single member on the admin team, regardless of who actually claimed and handled that ticket.

Why do tickets take so long sometimes?
Firstly, the vast majority of tickets have at least a second opinion from another moderator or an admin. Moderators do not moderate and make decisions alone as a rule. Those that take longer to resolve often have the input of a large portion of the moderating team and sometimes multiple admins. This takes time for everyone to have a discussion, give their input, and ultimately come to a decision on what to do.

Just like players, moderators act under a specific ruleset, they are under constant supervision of admins and other moderators. Moderators have never banned a user for no reason - we always act on information or reports. If we believe we have made a mistake in our decisions, we will try to correct it and inform the player involved.

Why did X get punished, but Y didn't? Why did Z get banned for doing nothing?
Because we don't discuss player punishments publicly, the only time any information about reprimands comes out is from the player themselves. Sometimes a player disagrees with a decision we have made and will tell friends that they got a raw deal.

This is fine, we appreciate that everyone takes away a different account of what happened, but please be aware that there is always more to the story.

Additionally, if one player was punished for something but another player wasn't - we ask you to please trust that we handle all reports of rule-breaking behaviour fairly according to our terms of service and code of conduct. It is possible that they have received punishment, perhaps not the same as you because there were a different set of circumstances surrounding the event, or for a variety of other reasons.

If you witness a user breaking the rules, then we strongly advise you to report that behaviour to us. We rely very heavily on reports of rule-breaking behaviour - we encourage members to report anonymously when they come across this on the site.

Why don't you discuss player punishments publicly?
Logs of player punishments actually fall under "personal data" as of the GDPR of May 2018 so we legally cannot disclose any information about player punishment with other members.

We have always had this rule in place, however, so that is not the full reason. We dislike bringing up player punishments due to the subjectivity of what has happened to cause the punishment. Moderators have to rule on varying degrees of the same rule.

For instance, what exactly constitutes scamming? How can we tell this was a definite scam? Where do we draw the line on what is a scam and what is just a promise transaction that never went through due to various reasons? What effect does this scam have on the victims, and the economy as a whole?

Additionally, we prioritise the maintenance of a user's privacy - nobody should be privy to what happens as the result of a ticket other than the moderating team and that user.

We heard you don't use off-site evidence but there have been some times you have used it?
We don't use off-site evidence as a general rule because it is very easy to fake screenshots, or impersonate someone when we don't have the back-end information that Lioden provides to us. If there is concrete evidence that this person has definitely done something offsite (e.g. is selling Lioden items/lions for real money) and we can verify it on Lioden then we will happily take off-site evidence into account.

Moderating - moving forward
We want to continue being a great team who works together to moderate Lioden. We hope that removing the moderator paws from moderators will allow them to play the game normally, as a real member. They have been forced into the spotlight since day one and we'd like to offer them the opportunity to sit back and enjoy the game as a member once more.

However, this doesn't mean there are no longer mods. We will be ensuring that we keep a team fully stocked and raring to go so that any reports and tickets created by members are handled promptly and fairly.

We would respectfully ask that you don't message formerly listed mods about whether they are still a moderator or not as we believe they are entitled to their privacy with this change.

If you encounter an unfair ruling or something that isn't handled how you think it should be, we still encourage you to report your ticket to the support email (support@lioden.com) or Abbey (#1).

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If you have any transparency questions, or questions about how we moderate and why we make some decisions, please ask and we will try to answer in admin responses over the following few days. Please keep in mind we will not answer questions about specific cases.



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Cinth (#166355)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:23:47
Smart choice



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Jack | G2 Jellyfish
Preon (#98461)


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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:23:50
I mean, there's a lot of toxic players too, it's not all the moderator's fault.



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Liomeme™ (#168755)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:24:49
Great idea! We don't want anyone getting targeted.



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Skip.the.papagei (#166809)

Majestic
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:25:43
Thank you for letting us know



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Teafox (#42483)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:25:56
Not fair to call all admins and moderators toxic. They put a lot of hard work into this site, and while there may be a few moderators who aren't so good, we shouldn't lump them all together.



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DrunkHedgedog (#86439)

Cursed
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:26:03
@Aslan
The toxic players arent all the mods or all the admins, I don't agree on that. Same as not all players are toxic. But some mods may be, so we have the Right to know who they are, and who "controls" us


Admin Response:
As stated before, nobody controls you, they just enforce the rules, terms of service, and code of conduct that you are bound to by playing Lioden. If a mod is acting out of turn, it is down to the admins to handle that situation and not players, and you can prompt this by reporting the ticket over to us.


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NoobOfDoom - Fulvous (#122536)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:26:04
Sorry to read mods are getting grief, hope they can enjoy the game again with the changes. :)



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Pixiefeather (#90243)

Savage
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:26:45
as I said earlier. I think Mods and admins should be allowed to create a third or second account that will have normal player permissions that they can use as their private personal account. And use their current main for when they are on modding duty. Or reverse but if you really want to give them privacy, Id recommend doing it the first way. That way they can enjoy the game like everyone else.



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omalleytally (#80253)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:29:16
i dont see why some people have an issue with this. this is a great idea and im glad you've implemented it! now the mods wont have their dms spammed with angry members, and they can instead sit back and really enjoy lioden how it was meant to be enjoyed. you don't *need* to know who handled your ticket. if you have an issue with how they did it, contact an admin. you shouldn't want to take issues into your own hands to begin with.



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Haswa (#8887)

Pervert
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:29:18
I think this is a good idea, in order to relieve the tension for the moderators, especially. I imagine that they deal with a lot, and get constantly spammed with messages!

Definitely a good move on Lioden's part ^.^



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Captain (#116042)

Maneater
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:38:02
Hey not trying to create friction my guys,but you seem to be saying the same thing over and over to different concerns and questions?

This won't help transparency,like somebody said,this is basically a secret police system in chat,and I think this might give mods who have issues with players too much power,since I believe they issue punishments themselves,correct me if I'm wrong though or missed it in the post.

This won't help tensions,it could possibly make them worse,since some players might feel watched,reference back to the "secret police" system,and be too scared to talk in chat,or even participate in the game. Especially users who've had fights with mods. It might also flair some anxiety for players,those who feel anxious talking to staff,and this new update might cause them to quit.

How will this help anything,besides Mods not getting harassed?

And yes,I know they can see who's doing what with tickets,that's not the answer to my question.


Admin Response:
If a user makes a report about a player who happens to be a moderator, that moderator is not allowed - by our policy - to take that ticket and it must be handled by a different member of the team. If a user has had a fight with a mod before - in for example, the chat - then surely the player will remember the name of that person, and choose not to interact with them. To reinforce this, with this change, players will be allowed to block moderators, as they will not know who is a moderator and who is not.

Players have nothing to fear from moderators. Moderators only enforce the rules, terms of service, and code of conduct that you are bound to by playing Lioden. They are not allowed to have personal bias, and are not allowed to handle anything that directly concerns them. They are just there to protect users.


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Kaprizo|Çɮ|B
ushFreckle2&3 (#18906)

Prophet
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:38:17
@the admin response to my first message singe I'm not sure if y'all read edits so I figured to do both to be safe

If I feel uncomfortable interacting with anyone who could possibly be a moderater (Ie anyone under this new update) then it damn sure will affect my Lioden experience, I said that I am uncomfortable interacting with staff on a player to player basis and with this update I will not be able to make sure I avoid them which is hell for my anxiety, honestly every change you make concerning mods has been a step backwards in my opinion and like I said I personally will not be able to enjoy Lioden at all at this rate, there are so many issues regarding mods that happen over and over again on this site (mainly this point is about the rapidly changing Mods which is hard to keep up with at the best of time)

Idk I'm just trying to say that it will absolutely effect my experience on here to the point to where I will indeed quit and honestly I am probably going to only stick around until the end of February before finally quitting this site because it has only been a horrible awful experience for the last few years in my opinion


Admin Response:
We're sorry you feel that way, and wish you all the best, and remind you that you are always welcome back on Lioden.


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ρєη∂є
яgast (#59537)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:41:38
The amount of paranoia in the playerbase in this game is amazing; just shows that this change is definitely needed.



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omalleytally (#80253)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:44:51
i think we need to put some more trust in the admins, that they will discipline mods who are taking things way too far, targeting players, etc.
i think we have to protect the mods which have worked hard to protect us. i can only imagine the kind of spam they used to receive on a daily basis.
i personally do not see an issue with what they did. i don't see why people are uncomfortable with speaking to people who may be mods. they are humans, just like we are. can you imagine how awful it must feel to have people target you and avoid you just because they want to make lioden a better and more fair place?



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Moth 🦋 (#21482)


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Posted on
2019-02-21 15:46:49
I appreciate the transparency and information! Moderators are people too and deserve to be treated as such :)
Will admins be keeping their badges (I’m assuming due to the fact they all have low ID #’s probably)? Mostly just curious. But it is nice to see some faces (or names as it may be) of leadership.


Admin Response:
Admins will keep their badges, if the IDs - especially Abbey's! - isn't a giveaway enough! :)


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