-LOCKED - A Statement About Moderating
Posted on 2019-02-21 12:54:31
Hi all, Abbey here on behalf of the admin and moderating teams.

We'd like to announce right now that in the coming weeks we are planning on removing moderator badges across the entire site. We are not demoting moderators or getting rid of any systems, we are just removing the badge from visible areas next to player names. We hope that this will make the game a better place to be for both players and moderators, and hope that moderators and players can have a less tense relationship with one another.

Addressing Moderating Concerns


We would like to take this opportunity to address some concerns that players have raised with regards to the moderating system.

The anonymity of moderators within the modbox has now been in effect for over a year and over this time we have seen that this system has worked very well from behind the scenes. However, we do acknowledge that there has been some scepticism from various members over how this system actually works.

So for the sake of transparency and clarification, we'd like to give some insight to our moderating practices and how the system works for moderators and admins versus members.

Firstly, a PSA:
Moderators and admins are two very different roles on the site.

Admins are the group of staff who handle the game's functionality and features. They each have different roles, but they talk with each other on a daily basis about various things regarding running the game. Admins decide when rules should change, when changes to the game should be made, they are responsible for the coding and artwork coordination, and general behind-the-scenes stuff. The community admins work daily with the moderators whereas the non-community admins do not.

Moderators are volunteer members of the team who help us handle rule-breaking members. They are sometimes asked for input on various changes to how we moderate, rule changes, but ultimately have no control over the main parts of the game. They do not have the ability to change event bars, or add items to shops, or anything like that. Moderators are purely for moderating the forums, chat and players as a whole. They enforce the rules, and have no ability to edit the game in any way.

Anonymous Moderators
On the front-end of the modbox, we changed it so that members could no longer see specifically which moderator was handling their ticket.

This change was made primarily to cease some of the targeting that staff were seeing from members after having a decision made on their ticket that the member disagreed with. Additionally, if a moderator took some time to respond, they would sometimes start receiving PMs.

A lesser-known reason for why we changed the modbox to only show "Moderating Team" is because we felt as though it was dishonest of us to claim that one single person handled a ticket. This sometimes turned into a moderator being disliked because they were viewed as being the sole person who made a decision that someone didn't like, when in fact that decision likely had the input and support of multiple moderators and an admin.

Additionally, ANY response from a specific admin came with the support and input of every single member on the admin team, regardless of who actually claimed and handled that ticket.

Why do tickets take so long sometimes?
Firstly, the vast majority of tickets have at least a second opinion from another moderator or an admin. Moderators do not moderate and make decisions alone as a rule. Those that take longer to resolve often have the input of a large portion of the moderating team and sometimes multiple admins. This takes time for everyone to have a discussion, give their input, and ultimately come to a decision on what to do.

Just like players, moderators act under a specific ruleset, they are under constant supervision of admins and other moderators. Moderators have never banned a user for no reason - we always act on information or reports. If we believe we have made a mistake in our decisions, we will try to correct it and inform the player involved.

Why did X get punished, but Y didn't? Why did Z get banned for doing nothing?
Because we don't discuss player punishments publicly, the only time any information about reprimands comes out is from the player themselves. Sometimes a player disagrees with a decision we have made and will tell friends that they got a raw deal.

This is fine, we appreciate that everyone takes away a different account of what happened, but please be aware that there is always more to the story.

Additionally, if one player was punished for something but another player wasn't - we ask you to please trust that we handle all reports of rule-breaking behaviour fairly according to our terms of service and code of conduct. It is possible that they have received punishment, perhaps not the same as you because there were a different set of circumstances surrounding the event, or for a variety of other reasons.

If you witness a user breaking the rules, then we strongly advise you to report that behaviour to us. We rely very heavily on reports of rule-breaking behaviour - we encourage members to report anonymously when they come across this on the site.

Why don't you discuss player punishments publicly?
Logs of player punishments actually fall under "personal data" as of the GDPR of May 2018 so we legally cannot disclose any information about player punishment with other members.

We have always had this rule in place, however, so that is not the full reason. We dislike bringing up player punishments due to the subjectivity of what has happened to cause the punishment. Moderators have to rule on varying degrees of the same rule.

For instance, what exactly constitutes scamming? How can we tell this was a definite scam? Where do we draw the line on what is a scam and what is just a promise transaction that never went through due to various reasons? What effect does this scam have on the victims, and the economy as a whole?

Additionally, we prioritise the maintenance of a user's privacy - nobody should be privy to what happens as the result of a ticket other than the moderating team and that user.

We heard you don't use off-site evidence but there have been some times you have used it?
We don't use off-site evidence as a general rule because it is very easy to fake screenshots, or impersonate someone when we don't have the back-end information that Lioden provides to us. If there is concrete evidence that this person has definitely done something offsite (e.g. is selling Lioden items/lions for real money) and we can verify it on Lioden then we will happily take off-site evidence into account.

Moderating - moving forward
We want to continue being a great team who works together to moderate Lioden. We hope that removing the moderator paws from moderators will allow them to play the game normally, as a real member. They have been forced into the spotlight since day one and we'd like to offer them the opportunity to sit back and enjoy the game as a member once more.

However, this doesn't mean there are no longer mods. We will be ensuring that we keep a team fully stocked and raring to go so that any reports and tickets created by members are handled promptly and fairly.

We would respectfully ask that you don't message formerly listed mods about whether they are still a moderator or not as we believe they are entitled to their privacy with this change.

If you encounter an unfair ruling or something that isn't handled how you think it should be, we still encourage you to report your ticket to the support email (support@lioden.com) or Abbey (#1).

----------------------------------------------------------------

If you have any transparency questions, or questions about how we moderate and why we make some decisions, please ask and we will try to answer in admin responses over the following few days. Please keep in mind we will not answer questions about specific cases.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Aslan (#128364)

Incredible
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2019-02-21 14:35:58
Aardwolf, I was not trying to “cause trouble”. I was attenpting to draw light to a situation where I have have otherwise been ignored. I have emailed my heart out and everytime it’s “we’ll check it out” and then I get zero response. I see case after case where mods are taking personal vendettas out on people instead of helping. Admins pushing other admins out and taking grudges on players. And then staff helping staff when one has broken the rules. And then changing the games rules to cover themselves. I have reported and reported and nothing has happened. The “rolloff” was nothing more than the admins and mods trying to hush me. The moment I started making comments, admins started showing up to redirect attention. I love this game. I love how it works. And I love giving hours and money to it and achieving what I set out to do. But corrupt staff just makes the game hard to play with a good conscience.


Admin Response:
We've just searched specifically for your emails and we have found nothing? Maybe try PMing one of us as you've been asked previously, as we've also had no PMs from you.


Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

The1PunMaster | main (#167032)

Impeccable
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2019-02-21 14:37:20
I think this can be a good thing. I really don’t want the mods to get harassed (or anybody for that matter) so if this helps then I’m all for it
The only concern I have is the chat. It seems as if when mods are known in the chat its a little bit “better” (don’t know how to word it exactly)
It’s like if ur in America and you see a police officer beside you most people wouldn’t go as fast as they would otherwise (I’m so bad at analogies sorry if this doesn’t make sense)
Again I’m for this if it helps!



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Rory (#119297)


View Forum Posts


Posted on
2019-02-21 14:38:01
great idea!



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Dragon (#24735)

Pervert
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2019-02-21 14:38:54
much better. there will be no mods being targeted and no mods that think they're better than us



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Moomin 🌦️ (#126875)


View Forum Posts


Posted on
2019-02-21 14:39:32
Pretty much agreeing with every concern stated here; this is a recipe for disaster.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

JennyWren (#101593)

King of the Jungle
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2019-02-21 14:40:12
@ThePunMaster That's a good analogy, actually. Also, I always feel safer when I see mods, just like I feel safer when I see police irl.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

The1PunMaster | main (#167032)

Impeccable
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2019-02-21 14:41:20
@jennywren glad someone got it that’s what I was trying to say :b



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Völur (#63935)

Naughty
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2019-02-21 14:43:43
Not 100% on what to think on this, it's not a problem for me..... so I guess I'm fine with it :)



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Tae (#150780)

Good Natured
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2019-02-21 14:43:52
I personally don't know how to feel about this. I understand the intention of this change, but I feel as if this will make the Mod + Player relationship even more complicated and uncomfortable due to the fact that you aren't sure who you may be talking to in terms of authority. The uncomfortable feeling can be sort of compared to being near an undercover cop. You might not be doing anything wrong, but you would feel a lot better if they weren't hiding the fact that they are enforcing the law right?

A player can easily be abused or told off by a mod, but won't know it because the mod just appears to be some rando. The modbox is going to be VERY full of "Is user ____ a Mod?" in the upcoming months because of brand new issues cropping up from this change but whatever. It's their site at the end of the day, however, I believe the playerbase still has a right to voice their concerns as some are spending cash here to even support this place.


Admin Response:
Admins have the ability to see which moderators are handling tickets, so if you ever feel the way your ticket was handled was inappropriate, you can submit an email to our support email or message Abbey (#1) directly on Lioden.

When a moderator has to convey a moderator message in chat or the forums, they will do so using the 'mod message' tool, which will show the message was posted by an official moderator. Only moderators and admins have access to this tool (and to claim tickets), so there should be no confusion.


Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?


Edited on 21/02/19 @ 14:56:39 by Jae (#150780)

Teafox (#42483)

King of the Jungle
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2019-02-21 14:48:19
I'm not a fan of this.

While I can understand the reasoning behind it, it feels really unfair to the rest of us players. The moderators have a good deal of control in many situations and can make decisions that impact us, but we don't even get to know who those people even are now?

Being in the spotlight is not something that should really matter. Moderators volunteered for this position. Of course there's going to be more of a spotlight on them; they knew that going in. If they're being harassed- why not deal with those players directly, instead of just nuking things entirely by making every moderator anonymous? I'm sure there are many other options to deal with this problem that don't result in hiding moderators behind a curtain.

Not to mention how this makes things harder on regular players. How can I modbox about an issue with another player now if I don't even know if that other player is a mod or not?

Overall, I'm disappointed. I like to see transparency when it comes to admins and moderators, and for Lioden to take that away instead of finding another way to deal with these problems is pretty disheartening.


Admin Response:
Admins have the ability to see which moderators are handling tickets, so if you ever feel the way your ticket was handled was inappropriate, you can submit an email to our support email or message Abbey (#1) directly on Lioden.

Additionally, if you are reporting a player who happens to be a moderator, there are already protocols in place that mean that moderator is not allowed to take that ticket, and it must be deferred to another member of the team.


Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

eclipsedmoon (#38992)

Divine
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2019-02-21 14:50:45
This sounds like a great idea and I'm glad that the mods now have a chance to relax and just be able to go about playing their games normally without the risk of harassment from any other user. It's also great to see you guys being to honest and transparent about aspects of the game because I've played other games before where the teams don't seem to care or hide things from their players and it's really refreshing to get all of this information firsthand from you guys. Great job!



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

JennyWren (#101593)

King of the Jungle
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2019-02-21 14:51:43
@Teafox "While I can understand the reasoning behind it, it feels really unfair to the rest of us players." Precisely. It feels like the admins are treating the entire player base like we're untrustworthy just because a few people behaved badly.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

🐝 Ginger_Bee 🐝 (#167127)

Angelic
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2019-02-21 14:54:16
Thanks admin who replied to me.
I understand perfectly well why these changes have been put into place.
However, they don't make much sense in the ways of becoming more 'transparent' with your player base, if anything, it's dividing the community more.
I do hope you understand that this change will more than likely cause a lot more trouble than resolving the issues at hand.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

sojubean [12m rough
ruby smi] (#60474)

Usual
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2019-02-21 14:56:13
@JennyWren
And if that were the case, we should and likely do, feel the same way toward the admins/mods due to horror stories of players targeted by specific mods. Feel as if they're untrustworthy, i mean.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Fading Angel (G2 2k)
[Frozen] (#81854)

Holy
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2019-02-21 14:56:46
Honestly, A LOT of players had to have been causing issues if they finally decided this.
They probably were handling it from accident to accident before this, as users suggest they should be doing.

But if it just keeps happening what else are they to do?



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?



Topic is locked




Memory Used: 714.73 KB - Queries: 0 - Query Time: 0.00000 - Total Time: 0.00564s