-LOCKED - A Statement About Moderating
Posted on 2019-02-21 12:54:31
Hi all, Abbey here on behalf of the admin and moderating teams.

We'd like to announce right now that in the coming weeks we are planning on removing moderator badges across the entire site. We are not demoting moderators or getting rid of any systems, we are just removing the badge from visible areas next to player names. We hope that this will make the game a better place to be for both players and moderators, and hope that moderators and players can have a less tense relationship with one another.

Addressing Moderating Concerns


We would like to take this opportunity to address some concerns that players have raised with regards to the moderating system.

The anonymity of moderators within the modbox has now been in effect for over a year and over this time we have seen that this system has worked very well from behind the scenes. However, we do acknowledge that there has been some scepticism from various members over how this system actually works.

So for the sake of transparency and clarification, we'd like to give some insight to our moderating practices and how the system works for moderators and admins versus members.

Firstly, a PSA:
Moderators and admins are two very different roles on the site.

Admins are the group of staff who handle the game's functionality and features. They each have different roles, but they talk with each other on a daily basis about various things regarding running the game. Admins decide when rules should change, when changes to the game should be made, they are responsible for the coding and artwork coordination, and general behind-the-scenes stuff. The community admins work daily with the moderators whereas the non-community admins do not.

Moderators are volunteer members of the team who help us handle rule-breaking members. They are sometimes asked for input on various changes to how we moderate, rule changes, but ultimately have no control over the main parts of the game. They do not have the ability to change event bars, or add items to shops, or anything like that. Moderators are purely for moderating the forums, chat and players as a whole. They enforce the rules, and have no ability to edit the game in any way.

Anonymous Moderators
On the front-end of the modbox, we changed it so that members could no longer see specifically which moderator was handling their ticket.

This change was made primarily to cease some of the targeting that staff were seeing from members after having a decision made on their ticket that the member disagreed with. Additionally, if a moderator took some time to respond, they would sometimes start receiving PMs.

A lesser-known reason for why we changed the modbox to only show "Moderating Team" is because we felt as though it was dishonest of us to claim that one single person handled a ticket. This sometimes turned into a moderator being disliked because they were viewed as being the sole person who made a decision that someone didn't like, when in fact that decision likely had the input and support of multiple moderators and an admin.

Additionally, ANY response from a specific admin came with the support and input of every single member on the admin team, regardless of who actually claimed and handled that ticket.

Why do tickets take so long sometimes?
Firstly, the vast majority of tickets have at least a second opinion from another moderator or an admin. Moderators do not moderate and make decisions alone as a rule. Those that take longer to resolve often have the input of a large portion of the moderating team and sometimes multiple admins. This takes time for everyone to have a discussion, give their input, and ultimately come to a decision on what to do.

Just like players, moderators act under a specific ruleset, they are under constant supervision of admins and other moderators. Moderators have never banned a user for no reason - we always act on information or reports. If we believe we have made a mistake in our decisions, we will try to correct it and inform the player involved.

Why did X get punished, but Y didn't? Why did Z get banned for doing nothing?
Because we don't discuss player punishments publicly, the only time any information about reprimands comes out is from the player themselves. Sometimes a player disagrees with a decision we have made and will tell friends that they got a raw deal.

This is fine, we appreciate that everyone takes away a different account of what happened, but please be aware that there is always more to the story.

Additionally, if one player was punished for something but another player wasn't - we ask you to please trust that we handle all reports of rule-breaking behaviour fairly according to our terms of service and code of conduct. It is possible that they have received punishment, perhaps not the same as you because there were a different set of circumstances surrounding the event, or for a variety of other reasons.

If you witness a user breaking the rules, then we strongly advise you to report that behaviour to us. We rely very heavily on reports of rule-breaking behaviour - we encourage members to report anonymously when they come across this on the site.

Why don't you discuss player punishments publicly?
Logs of player punishments actually fall under "personal data" as of the GDPR of May 2018 so we legally cannot disclose any information about player punishment with other members.

We have always had this rule in place, however, so that is not the full reason. We dislike bringing up player punishments due to the subjectivity of what has happened to cause the punishment. Moderators have to rule on varying degrees of the same rule.

For instance, what exactly constitutes scamming? How can we tell this was a definite scam? Where do we draw the line on what is a scam and what is just a promise transaction that never went through due to various reasons? What effect does this scam have on the victims, and the economy as a whole?

Additionally, we prioritise the maintenance of a user's privacy - nobody should be privy to what happens as the result of a ticket other than the moderating team and that user.

We heard you don't use off-site evidence but there have been some times you have used it?
We don't use off-site evidence as a general rule because it is very easy to fake screenshots, or impersonate someone when we don't have the back-end information that Lioden provides to us. If there is concrete evidence that this person has definitely done something offsite (e.g. is selling Lioden items/lions for real money) and we can verify it on Lioden then we will happily take off-site evidence into account.

Moderating - moving forward
We want to continue being a great team who works together to moderate Lioden. We hope that removing the moderator paws from moderators will allow them to play the game normally, as a real member. They have been forced into the spotlight since day one and we'd like to offer them the opportunity to sit back and enjoy the game as a member once more.

However, this doesn't mean there are no longer mods. We will be ensuring that we keep a team fully stocked and raring to go so that any reports and tickets created by members are handled promptly and fairly.

We would respectfully ask that you don't message formerly listed mods about whether they are still a moderator or not as we believe they are entitled to their privacy with this change.

If you encounter an unfair ruling or something that isn't handled how you think it should be, we still encourage you to report your ticket to the support email (support@lioden.com) or Abbey (#1).

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If you have any transparency questions, or questions about how we moderate and why we make some decisions, please ask and we will try to answer in admin responses over the following few days. Please keep in mind we will not answer questions about specific cases.



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Ember <3 (#109478)


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Posted on
2019-02-21 14:05:54
Thank you for your hard work :)



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🐯Golden
Tigress🐯 (#100594)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2019-02-21 14:06:26
Man, I hate the people who are baba egg. In morals, you stand there sweet-skinned, licking the ground on which the adm's step on, all by what? By a simple "hi"?

They had their own opinion, man.



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Lethe (#155325)

Holy
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Posted on
2019-02-21 14:06:34
Thanks for keeping us informed, and thanks to the mods for working so hard! You all do your best to keep the website running smoothly and I trust you guys to do what’s best for us, even if it winds up taking a few tries.



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sojubean [12m rough
ruby smi] (#60474)

Usual
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Posted on
2019-02-21 14:06:46
Regardless if it's their site or not, they put this site up to the public. For this game to continue going at a good steady rate, there needs to be a middle ground for admins/mods and the normal players. The players need to feel safe as they're putting their hard earned money into the site which employees the people who run it. It's not a "we do all the work so u have a free site to use" it's a give 50/50 mutual thing. The players need to feel heard. Otherwise, what's to stop them from leaving? Sure overall it might not seem bad to lose a couple here or there, but thats a level of distrust you don't get back. Even from people who continue to play, but maybe don't bother to sink their cash into the game.

It's not transparency really if they take something once visible away from the players. Once again, if the mods can't handle the spotlight they probably shouldn't be mods. How about punish the people harassing the mods instead of pulling the rug out from under everyone.


Admin Response:
If you see anything that looks to be harassment, please report it so we can look into it. Every report helps.

All admins are able to see which moderators handle which tickets, in addition, and if you ever feel you have been treated unfairly, you can send an email to our support email, or PM Abbey (#1) directly and we can look into it for you.


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JennyWren (#101593)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2019-02-21 14:08:20
To be honest, I'm a bit upset about this update. I also wasn't happy when it became impossible to see which moderator was handling your ticket. I like to know who I'm talking to; it feels cold and impersonal to talk to someone who's completely anonymous. It's too bad that some players were targeting mods they disagreed with, but I feel like those people should have punished, instead of the entire community. My favorite thing about Lioden is how friendly and welcoming it is, but it's becoming less and less so.


Admin Response:
We're sorry it feels this way, but we hope you can see the reasoning behind why we have to do this, and hope you will continue to feel welcome on Lioden. We have some incredibly friendly and lovely players here, and a great bunch of people on staff too. If you ever have a problem with a player or how a moderator has handled your ticket, as always, you can contact us via the support email or PM Abbey (#1) directly. Admins are able to see which mods handle which tickets and can act accordingly.


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Zol|2G 1.8K MS Glass
Fissure (#150116)

Cursed
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Posted on
2019-02-21 14:08:34
Sounds good to me! They should be able to play the game too



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Mad Hyena (#29080)

Special Snowflake
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Posted on
2019-02-21 14:11:54
Im not against or supporting this change, but I have small concern!

Wont mod-pretending become an issue in this case? If a mod cannot be distinguished from a regular player, it's a potential way to exploit for scammers to pretend to be mods. If no mods would be visible, then normal players wont be able to tell if the person PMing them is really a mod or just pretending to be one.

Potentially, I see this at least raising the modbox load with questions if this or that person is really a mod if they'd claim to be one. Even if its not fully for scam but I see way for people to then pretendto be a mod, like "I am actually a mod, dont argue with me or Ill ban you!" kind of situations. Because if no paw, the only way to tell would be through creating a modbox ticket and many newbies dont know how to do that (there are often questions from newer players of how to create a modbox ticket).


Admin Response:
We strongly encourage members to report anyone who is not listed as a mod (in this case, *anyone*) who states that they are a mod. If reported, we will not confirm either way if the reported person is actually a moderator, but action will be taken against users who are attempting to impersonate a mod.


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Edited on 21/02/19 @ 14:15:42 by Mad Hyena (#29080)

JennyWren (#101593)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2019-02-21 14:13:43
@Mad Hyena I hadn't thought of that; it's definitely a valid concern.



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🦐 Aardwolf 🍤 (#46899)

Buzzkill
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Posted on
2019-02-21 14:16:38
Gotta admit, that seems like a very strong reason to not do this.



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Aslan (#128364)

Incredible
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Posted on
2019-02-21 14:17:48
Kinda screwing yourselves a bit here



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Miss Hades [7.2k Ice
Primal] (#100240)

Cursed
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Posted on
2019-02-21 14:17:50
You can be staff and play your own game. Look at all the successful sims out there who do so.

Transparency isn't achieved by hiding. I get that people can be dicks, but these mods also do volunteer. There will always be bad eggs, always be people who come at you like you aren't a person too. And that sucks, it does.

And yes, it's too bad that some people will be that toxic, that life isn't just easy and that people can't all get along.

But maybe. MAYBE. If you could level with your player base for a MOMENT, you could work on rebuilding that relationship.

I'm not sure why that is so difficult. You want everyone to be treated on that level field? Start taking the initiative to make it happen. There's no balance in hiding. There hasn't been from the moment you started lumping mods into an anonymous moderator account.

Bad eggs aside, how can your members treat staff on a level field when we're all being treated like we can't have human interaction with a staff member?

I get the intention behind making them 'regular players', I just don't see it wise in a functional sense.


And as said yes, some of this is on players too. People just need to see others as people too, and in large numbers that can be difficult. The value is in listening to each other. Your player base keeps this site alive. Maybe hear them out once in awhile. After all. You build relationships through conversation, no?


Admin Response:
I hope we have answered most of this for you in a previous admin response.

Additionally, we always take constructive player feedback into consideration, and are always listening.


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Edited on 21/02/19 @ 14:19:15 by Miss Hades (#100240)

Fading Angel (G2 2k)
[Frozen] (#81854)

Holy
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Posted on
2019-02-21 14:18:00
Mods would typically pm a user, and it goes through as a mod message, it wouldnt come through as a normal pm.

So I woildnt be to concern with that part



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Edited on 21/02/19 @ 14:18:54 by Fading Angel (#81854)

JennyWren (#101593)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2019-02-21 14:19:05
@Fading Angel What about the forums? Or chat?



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Fading Angel (G2 2k)
[Frozen] (#81854)

Holy
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Posted on
2019-02-21 14:20:07
As theyve said.. Just modbox it.

I was just pointing out the pming part <3



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🦐 Aardwolf 🍤 (#46899)

Buzzkill
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Posted on
2019-02-21 14:20:56
So are we to use modbox even more now for questions we may have?


Admin Response:
There's nothing wrong with going to the Modbox for any questions that you might have - it's what it's there for, along with submitting reports and bringing exploits to our attention. :)


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