-LOCKED - A Statement About Moderating
Posted on 2019-02-21 12:54:31
Hi all, Abbey here on behalf of the admin and moderating teams.

We'd like to announce right now that in the coming weeks we are planning on removing moderator badges across the entire site. We are not demoting moderators or getting rid of any systems, we are just removing the badge from visible areas next to player names. We hope that this will make the game a better place to be for both players and moderators, and hope that moderators and players can have a less tense relationship with one another.

Addressing Moderating Concerns


We would like to take this opportunity to address some concerns that players have raised with regards to the moderating system.

The anonymity of moderators within the modbox has now been in effect for over a year and over this time we have seen that this system has worked very well from behind the scenes. However, we do acknowledge that there has been some scepticism from various members over how this system actually works.

So for the sake of transparency and clarification, we'd like to give some insight to our moderating practices and how the system works for moderators and admins versus members.

Firstly, a PSA:
Moderators and admins are two very different roles on the site.

Admins are the group of staff who handle the game's functionality and features. They each have different roles, but they talk with each other on a daily basis about various things regarding running the game. Admins decide when rules should change, when changes to the game should be made, they are responsible for the coding and artwork coordination, and general behind-the-scenes stuff. The community admins work daily with the moderators whereas the non-community admins do not.

Moderators are volunteer members of the team who help us handle rule-breaking members. They are sometimes asked for input on various changes to how we moderate, rule changes, but ultimately have no control over the main parts of the game. They do not have the ability to change event bars, or add items to shops, or anything like that. Moderators are purely for moderating the forums, chat and players as a whole. They enforce the rules, and have no ability to edit the game in any way.

Anonymous Moderators
On the front-end of the modbox, we changed it so that members could no longer see specifically which moderator was handling their ticket.

This change was made primarily to cease some of the targeting that staff were seeing from members after having a decision made on their ticket that the member disagreed with. Additionally, if a moderator took some time to respond, they would sometimes start receiving PMs.

A lesser-known reason for why we changed the modbox to only show "Moderating Team" is because we felt as though it was dishonest of us to claim that one single person handled a ticket. This sometimes turned into a moderator being disliked because they were viewed as being the sole person who made a decision that someone didn't like, when in fact that decision likely had the input and support of multiple moderators and an admin.

Additionally, ANY response from a specific admin came with the support and input of every single member on the admin team, regardless of who actually claimed and handled that ticket.

Why do tickets take so long sometimes?
Firstly, the vast majority of tickets have at least a second opinion from another moderator or an admin. Moderators do not moderate and make decisions alone as a rule. Those that take longer to resolve often have the input of a large portion of the moderating team and sometimes multiple admins. This takes time for everyone to have a discussion, give their input, and ultimately come to a decision on what to do.

Just like players, moderators act under a specific ruleset, they are under constant supervision of admins and other moderators. Moderators have never banned a user for no reason - we always act on information or reports. If we believe we have made a mistake in our decisions, we will try to correct it and inform the player involved.

Why did X get punished, but Y didn't? Why did Z get banned for doing nothing?
Because we don't discuss player punishments publicly, the only time any information about reprimands comes out is from the player themselves. Sometimes a player disagrees with a decision we have made and will tell friends that they got a raw deal.

This is fine, we appreciate that everyone takes away a different account of what happened, but please be aware that there is always more to the story.

Additionally, if one player was punished for something but another player wasn't - we ask you to please trust that we handle all reports of rule-breaking behaviour fairly according to our terms of service and code of conduct. It is possible that they have received punishment, perhaps not the same as you because there were a different set of circumstances surrounding the event, or for a variety of other reasons.

If you witness a user breaking the rules, then we strongly advise you to report that behaviour to us. We rely very heavily on reports of rule-breaking behaviour - we encourage members to report anonymously when they come across this on the site.

Why don't you discuss player punishments publicly?
Logs of player punishments actually fall under "personal data" as of the GDPR of May 2018 so we legally cannot disclose any information about player punishment with other members.

We have always had this rule in place, however, so that is not the full reason. We dislike bringing up player punishments due to the subjectivity of what has happened to cause the punishment. Moderators have to rule on varying degrees of the same rule.

For instance, what exactly constitutes scamming? How can we tell this was a definite scam? Where do we draw the line on what is a scam and what is just a promise transaction that never went through due to various reasons? What effect does this scam have on the victims, and the economy as a whole?

Additionally, we prioritise the maintenance of a user's privacy - nobody should be privy to what happens as the result of a ticket other than the moderating team and that user.

We heard you don't use off-site evidence but there have been some times you have used it?
We don't use off-site evidence as a general rule because it is very easy to fake screenshots, or impersonate someone when we don't have the back-end information that Lioden provides to us. If there is concrete evidence that this person has definitely done something offsite (e.g. is selling Lioden items/lions for real money) and we can verify it on Lioden then we will happily take off-site evidence into account.

Moderating - moving forward
We want to continue being a great team who works together to moderate Lioden. We hope that removing the moderator paws from moderators will allow them to play the game normally, as a real member. They have been forced into the spotlight since day one and we'd like to offer them the opportunity to sit back and enjoy the game as a member once more.

However, this doesn't mean there are no longer mods. We will be ensuring that we keep a team fully stocked and raring to go so that any reports and tickets created by members are handled promptly and fairly.

We would respectfully ask that you don't message formerly listed mods about whether they are still a moderator or not as we believe they are entitled to their privacy with this change.

If you encounter an unfair ruling or something that isn't handled how you think it should be, we still encourage you to report your ticket to the support email (support@lioden.com) or Abbey (#1).

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If you have any transparency questions, or questions about how we moderate and why we make some decisions, please ask and we will try to answer in admin responses over the following few days. Please keep in mind we will not answer questions about specific cases.



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🐱CottonCaat🐱 (#127324)

Divine
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:45:03



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Rhaast ✿ Ice G1
11BO (#40493)

Total Chad
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:49:22
That's not the point, there is Mods that DO have personal issues with some members and it CAN be an opportunity to unfair things to happen since there is no way to the PLAYER know from where the ban or punishment comes from.

What's the point in having 'leader' if we don't know who they are? I agree with what sojubean [12m best cloud pie] (#60474) - "Either way tho, these mods are, in fact, volunteers and they know what they're getting into when applying to be a volunteer mod. They get tossed into the spotlight. If they can't handle said spotlight on them, maybe they shouldn't be mods?" It's also something the SITE should do about handling rude or badly behaved members (lots of them around) if they're beginning punished for harassing the mods it wouldn't had happen;


Admin Response:
Admins are the people involved who currently manage the moderators, and discipline or let go of moderators where necessary. They will also still be able to see which moderators are handling which tickets, and this change will not impede how they make decisions.

You can still contact the support email or Abbey (#1) on Lioden directly if you feel you have been treated unfairly, and admins will be able to identify which moderator dealt with you, and act accordingly.


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Zachawakka (#152538)

True King
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:49:56
The moderators do a great job. As do the admins. I understand fully why its like this and I support it. Great that questions have been answered to clear up some things though :3



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coyohti | Clean
Pulsar (#128098)

Astral
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:50:46
"Logs of player punishments actually fall under "personal data" as of the GDPR of May 2018 so we legally cannot disclose any information about player punishment with other members."

Having been a mod on other games/forums (long ago...) I have heard all the arguments users come up with in attempts to gain access to private information. Seeing that the GDPR supports what we had believed all along (that information is personal and private) is fantastic and I hope will quash those arguments a lot more quickly for mods everywhere!




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Laila 💰
(Gryffindor!) (#96222)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:55:23
I believe that there should at least be a list of mods somewhere?


Admin Response:
We will not be keeping an official list. One of the problems was users sending messages to specific mods, when the appropriate action to take when requiring moderator assistance is to submit your issue to the modbox.


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Q (#86568)


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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:57:17
There's really no point in arguing. This is their game and it will go whatever way they want it to go. If you don't like the way things are run..


Admin Response:
We will always listen to constructive player feedback! :)


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Kneph (#124410)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:58:00
Huh, okay.



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🏳️‍🌈Glas
s🌹Rose (#146084)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:58:29
Um, sorry, this seems like a pretty bad treatment of a symptom of a greater problem. The reason there is tension between the mods and players is BECAUSE of a lack of transparency. Just saying "here is how we do things" is not itself transparency. Transparency means to see THROUGH, to see the process of how a decision is made and thus come to better understanding and possible judgment about it. This is the opposite of transparent, it hides the process even farther.

Without being exposed to any outside criticism, I immediately became suspicious of the moderation system (rather than any specific moderator) because of this blanket "we don't discuss punishments" thing. That screams of a body that cannot deal with criticism and makes it really hard to raise any awareness of possible unfair treatment.

This change solves the problem of users targeting individual moderators themselves, which is obviously good, but only exasperates the actual problem of the relationship.

This system needs a way for it to be accountable to the public. Even if all the mods and admin have good intentions, which I'll believe until I see evidence to the contrary, everyone makes mistakes, and you need to be ready to actually own that. That, yes, there is in fact, a non-zero chance you can be wrong and thus need to be open to taking criticism from outside the inner-circle. You already know that some of the player-base distrusts you, this is only making that worse.


Admin Response:
Admins are the people involved who currently manage the moderators, and discipline or let go of moderators where necessary. They will also still be able to see which moderators are handling which tickets, and this change will not impede how they make decisions.

You can still contact the support email or Abbey (#1) on Lioden directly if you feel you have been treated unfairly, and admins will be able to identify which moderator dealt with you, and act accordingly.

If you have specific feedback for the moderator who was handling your ticket, you are free as always to add that feedback in a ticket response.

Additionally, as stated in the news post above, we are legally bound to keep player punishments private.


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Aslan (#128364)

Incredible
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:58:45
This just makes mods seem even more shady, covering their names so that they can't be held accoountable. Hard to trust a leader who hides from it's people.


Admin Response:
You can still contact the support email or Abbey (#1) on Lioden directly if you feel you have been treated unfairly, and admins will be able to identify which moderator dealt with you, and act accordingly.


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Kaprizo|Çɮ|B
ushFreckle2&3 (#18906)

Prophet
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:59:20
Hey I'm against the whole "no one else will know who mods are and aren't thing" I personally like to know which people are mods since I personally don't like interacting with them in general, it's nothing against most moderaters but it's a personal choice I decided to make and now that you have gone to complete anonymity and lack of public accountability for mods I feel uncomfortable continuing playing on this website. Could you at least have a staff list since a sizeable amount of other popular pets sims do so as well and it's been proven that it does not overly affect anything. Of not I probably will quit the site because I feel real uncomfortable with this new update



Admin Response:
We will not be keeping an official list. One of the problems was users sending messages to specific mods, when the appropriate action to take when requiring moderator assistance is to submit your issue to the modbox.

Admin Response:
In addition, we're sorry to hear that you might quit the game over this but we'd like to let you know that in the grand scheme of things, your experience on Lioden should not change as a result of this decision. We also hope you would treat a moderator the same as you would treat any other player.


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Edited on 21/02/19 @ 16:12:17 by Kaprizo|Çɮ (#18906)

Berenos|On hiatus (#84593)

Resurgent
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:59:38
I can't say I'm happy with this change, but I understand why it may be necessary. Even so, I think the issue isn't Moderators being known, but that there is so much misinformation about their capabilities and duties versus the capabilities and duties of other staff members, and the fact that there are so many players allowed to remain when they display increasingly toxic attitudes. Mods may become anonymous alter-egos, but these playes will still be there, and I fear that once their target is "gone" they are going to turn their attention to others



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Rhaast ✿ Ice G1
11BO (#40493)

Total Chad
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:59:43
If you don't like/agree other people's opinions then...



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Aslan (#128364)

Incredible
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Posted on
2019-02-21 14:00:21
I agree with you rhaast



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🦐 Aardwolf 🍤 (#46899)

Buzzkill
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Posted on
2019-02-21 14:03:33
I can see this change going either way. I hope it does make things less antagonistic, but I'm not optimistic either.

My huge question is about discussing playering punishments. There have been a lot of times I've reported something to modbox and have been told "we can't act on this" or "no action will be taken at this time." Isn't discussing lack of punishment the same thing as discussing punishment? There is a reason that almost every other customer support line out there has a blanket "thank you, we will take appropriate action" response for tickets. It's truthful while not making the complainant feel like they're being ignored. Is this something we're going to finally see stop?


Admin Response:
This is definitely going to be put into place, we have seen that this has been occurring with a handful of tickets and we are putting a stop to it.


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Evelyn {Side} (#56320)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2019-02-21 14:03:38
The biggest problem is going to be found in main chat where moderators not using the warning system manage the chat. They're in there with their names and they make comments and keep the peace but if we're not aware they're mods it just looks like some annoying ass player mini-modding away. There's no way to identify if someone is mini-modding because we don't know what an ACTUAL mod looks like! It's backwards and a terrible decision to completely make this anonymous. It removes accountability, I don't care if they can have it handled through the ticket system there's no way to confirm a ticket isn't/wasn't claimed by the person you were reporting anyway. What happens if I needed to report a player who just HAPPENED to be a mod? With no way to tell who is in charge there's no way to tell who needs to be treated with respect to their claims. If someone tells me to do something if I can't confirm they're a mod I'm sure as hell not gonna do it.


Admin Response:
Moderators will use the mod message tool when relaying moderator messages to the chat.

Additionally, if you need to report a player who just happened to be a mod, we already have a protocol where that mod is not allowed to take that ticket.


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