-LOCKED - A Statement About Moderating
Posted on 2019-02-21 12:54:31
Hi all, Abbey here on behalf of the admin and moderating teams.

We'd like to announce right now that in the coming weeks we are planning on removing moderator badges across the entire site. We are not demoting moderators or getting rid of any systems, we are just removing the badge from visible areas next to player names. We hope that this will make the game a better place to be for both players and moderators, and hope that moderators and players can have a less tense relationship with one another.

Addressing Moderating Concerns


We would like to take this opportunity to address some concerns that players have raised with regards to the moderating system.

The anonymity of moderators within the modbox has now been in effect for over a year and over this time we have seen that this system has worked very well from behind the scenes. However, we do acknowledge that there has been some scepticism from various members over how this system actually works.

So for the sake of transparency and clarification, we'd like to give some insight to our moderating practices and how the system works for moderators and admins versus members.

Firstly, a PSA:
Moderators and admins are two very different roles on the site.

Admins are the group of staff who handle the game's functionality and features. They each have different roles, but they talk with each other on a daily basis about various things regarding running the game. Admins decide when rules should change, when changes to the game should be made, they are responsible for the coding and artwork coordination, and general behind-the-scenes stuff. The community admins work daily with the moderators whereas the non-community admins do not.

Moderators are volunteer members of the team who help us handle rule-breaking members. They are sometimes asked for input on various changes to how we moderate, rule changes, but ultimately have no control over the main parts of the game. They do not have the ability to change event bars, or add items to shops, or anything like that. Moderators are purely for moderating the forums, chat and players as a whole. They enforce the rules, and have no ability to edit the game in any way.

Anonymous Moderators
On the front-end of the modbox, we changed it so that members could no longer see specifically which moderator was handling their ticket.

This change was made primarily to cease some of the targeting that staff were seeing from members after having a decision made on their ticket that the member disagreed with. Additionally, if a moderator took some time to respond, they would sometimes start receiving PMs.

A lesser-known reason for why we changed the modbox to only show "Moderating Team" is because we felt as though it was dishonest of us to claim that one single person handled a ticket. This sometimes turned into a moderator being disliked because they were viewed as being the sole person who made a decision that someone didn't like, when in fact that decision likely had the input and support of multiple moderators and an admin.

Additionally, ANY response from a specific admin came with the support and input of every single member on the admin team, regardless of who actually claimed and handled that ticket.

Why do tickets take so long sometimes?
Firstly, the vast majority of tickets have at least a second opinion from another moderator or an admin. Moderators do not moderate and make decisions alone as a rule. Those that take longer to resolve often have the input of a large portion of the moderating team and sometimes multiple admins. This takes time for everyone to have a discussion, give their input, and ultimately come to a decision on what to do.

Just like players, moderators act under a specific ruleset, they are under constant supervision of admins and other moderators. Moderators have never banned a user for no reason - we always act on information or reports. If we believe we have made a mistake in our decisions, we will try to correct it and inform the player involved.

Why did X get punished, but Y didn't? Why did Z get banned for doing nothing?
Because we don't discuss player punishments publicly, the only time any information about reprimands comes out is from the player themselves. Sometimes a player disagrees with a decision we have made and will tell friends that they got a raw deal.

This is fine, we appreciate that everyone takes away a different account of what happened, but please be aware that there is always more to the story.

Additionally, if one player was punished for something but another player wasn't - we ask you to please trust that we handle all reports of rule-breaking behaviour fairly according to our terms of service and code of conduct. It is possible that they have received punishment, perhaps not the same as you because there were a different set of circumstances surrounding the event, or for a variety of other reasons.

If you witness a user breaking the rules, then we strongly advise you to report that behaviour to us. We rely very heavily on reports of rule-breaking behaviour - we encourage members to report anonymously when they come across this on the site.

Why don't you discuss player punishments publicly?
Logs of player punishments actually fall under "personal data" as of the GDPR of May 2018 so we legally cannot disclose any information about player punishment with other members.

We have always had this rule in place, however, so that is not the full reason. We dislike bringing up player punishments due to the subjectivity of what has happened to cause the punishment. Moderators have to rule on varying degrees of the same rule.

For instance, what exactly constitutes scamming? How can we tell this was a definite scam? Where do we draw the line on what is a scam and what is just a promise transaction that never went through due to various reasons? What effect does this scam have on the victims, and the economy as a whole?

Additionally, we prioritise the maintenance of a user's privacy - nobody should be privy to what happens as the result of a ticket other than the moderating team and that user.

We heard you don't use off-site evidence but there have been some times you have used it?
We don't use off-site evidence as a general rule because it is very easy to fake screenshots, or impersonate someone when we don't have the back-end information that Lioden provides to us. If there is concrete evidence that this person has definitely done something offsite (e.g. is selling Lioden items/lions for real money) and we can verify it on Lioden then we will happily take off-site evidence into account.

Moderating - moving forward
We want to continue being a great team who works together to moderate Lioden. We hope that removing the moderator paws from moderators will allow them to play the game normally, as a real member. They have been forced into the spotlight since day one and we'd like to offer them the opportunity to sit back and enjoy the game as a member once more.

However, this doesn't mean there are no longer mods. We will be ensuring that we keep a team fully stocked and raring to go so that any reports and tickets created by members are handled promptly and fairly.

We would respectfully ask that you don't message formerly listed mods about whether they are still a moderator or not as we believe they are entitled to their privacy with this change.

If you encounter an unfair ruling or something that isn't handled how you think it should be, we still encourage you to report your ticket to the support email (support@lioden.com) or Abbey (#1).

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If you have any transparency questions, or questions about how we moderate and why we make some decisions, please ask and we will try to answer in admin responses over the following few days. Please keep in mind we will not answer questions about specific cases.



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Red 🍁[FROZEN] (#116242)


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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:11:16
Each time there is an announcement in this style, it always reminds me of those dreadful times where you have to write a formal essay/report

Now in all seriousness :
I'm glad that the Admin team decided on posting this announcement, I for a fact wasn't aware that discussing players punishments fall under the law of "personal data".
This gives me a better understanding of what may or may not be the reason for certain decisions carried out by the admin team.



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Edited on 21/02/19 @ 13:26:17 by ERROR (#116242)

Bearo [CLEAN uneven
scoundrel] (#39520)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:11:34
this is a terrible decision lmao



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JaxHammer [Retiring] (#103364)

Savage
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:11:48
So basically Lioden has a secret police system now. Great.




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Q (#86568)


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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:12:24
As long as staff do their job, I have no problem with this. Hopefully people can stop obsessing over who gets chosen and actually enjoy the game.



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AimPyre | G2
Jellyfish Preon (#98461)


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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:13:00
Thanks to the admins who responded to my questions! I think this is a good change, good job team.

Still think there should be a list of appreciation somewhere. Just a list of names and an icon, but no links to their page or anything (not for contacting), just a link to modbox and help with a little message saying 'if you have a problem and want mods to answer, contact modbox!' or something like that. (EDIT: Ok I kinda see why there isn't a list, I guess.... but:) Or at least be allowed to know who they are... it's kinda weird we're not even allowed to ask. Kinda feels too secretive and weird? We should be allowed to *ask*, we just might not get an answer. EDIT: We should be allowed to ask, and mods are given permission to answer however they want, whether that be denying, not answering at all, or choosing to be open and say 'yeah lmao'

Aside from that, I see what you're going for and agree with it.


Admin Response:
I hope you can see how open this would be to lies, with no way to verify if the player replying to your question is telling the truth or not.


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Edited on 21/02/19 @ 13:18:35 by FirecrackerTNT (Sunrise Mott) (#98461)

Red (#92803)

Amiable
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:13:08
my tickets been dealt with but i havent gotten an answer yet. :T



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Xathina[side] (#73052)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:13:30
this sounds like a good idea. helps keep the saltiness towards individuals down and makes it harder for people to avoid having certain mods working on their items from personal opinion


i think this was a very wise thing and honestly shouldve been implemented in the baby days of lioden and i hope this will be a starting feature on wolvden to prevent the drama!!



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Smokee (#19516)

Untitled
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:13:50
My dyslexia kicked in trying to read this. But was able to get the major points out. Thank you for your hard work!



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sojubean [12m rough
ruby smi] (#60474)

Usual
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:14:45
I'm a bit in both sides of the fence here.
Every game I've played or site ice been on has some badge saying if someone is a mod or something of the sort. It's just nice to know who is around that has our back or if someone is around in general to oversee things. Not just members.

But on the other hand, with a game as niche as this where mods are so in the spotlight and get harassed by members just for being mods, I understand rhe anonymity.

Either way tho, these mods are, in fact, volunteers and they know what they're getting into when applying to be a volunteer mod. They get tossed into the spotlight. If they can't handle said spotlight on them, maybe they shouldn't be mods? I wouldn't sign up to be in a play if i couldn't handle being in front of a crowd with dozens of eople watching my every move. Imho the players should have a right to know who is who and who is handling our tickets in that moment, who is our voice.
Either way, I appreciate the clarity and transparency on the issue overall and the steps to protect your staff, paid or volunteer alike and will support no matter how this plays out.



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RegalKnight (#148966)

Usual
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:16:45
Still doesn't change my opinion on the sites rules and such.


Admin Response:
You're welcome to PM one of the admins, or send in an email, if you have any complaints or suggestions about the rules!


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PercyScales (#166883)


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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:19:17
This is a very good idea, i hope that it helps to let our wonderful mods enjoy the game more!

Though, i think personally that the mods should be able to choose if they are shown as a mod or not, to make sure that nobody tries to fake being a mod, and if certain mods like to be known as a mod.
Thank you to the Lioden staff team for keeping this game safe and awesome!



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August Jay | [G1 /
10xBO] (#87305)


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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:19:25
I don't mean for this to come across as snarky or sarcastic at all - just a genuine concern:
I've noticed that we've been slowly losing "flair" tags recently - first helpers, now mods (I'm not sure if wiki badges were also removed from mods to promote anonymity, but if so, then wiki badges as well.)

My question/concern is, I'm wondering if we will be losing our owl badges coming up in the near future, as well? Just because if so, I'd like to make sure I have a screenshot of it saved; I've always liked how it looked. :]


Admin Response:
We have no plans to remove owl badges at all :)


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AimPyre | G2
Jellyfish Preon (#98461)


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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:19:51
I think we should be allowed to ask if someone's a mod, and mods are given permission to answer however they want ("No", no answer, yeah I'm a mod). If they want to be recognized as a friendly moderator face, let them. If they want to be in the shadows, let them just say 'no' or not answer


Admin Response:
I hope you can see how open this would be to lies, with no way to verify if the player replying to your question is telling the truth or not.


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Edited on 21/02/19 @ 13:20:24 by FirecrackerTNT (Sunrise Mott) (#98461)

Vis {#Liolocke2020} (#13103)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:20:10
Thanks for the transparency on this issue!
Running and moderating a site this large, with 2k+ different personalities to manage, is no small feat.
You're all doing a fantastic job. <3



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AimPyre | G2
Jellyfish Preon (#98461)


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Posted on
2019-02-21 13:23:57
Thanks for the transparency guys ^^



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