let a breed only mark be a breed only mark :)
let a breed only mark be a breed only mark :)
let a breed only mark be a breed only mark :)
let a breed only mark be a breed only mark :)
let a breed only mark be a breed only mark :)

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As Katze had said, we have had several polls in the past that, even when the 'Yes' option has gotten the most votes it still was never added to the game.

And honestly, I personally don't see any raffle marks ever being applicable, other than with the Random Marking Applicator and a lot of luck. (I've seen someone try for all Vitiligos in their respective slots and they were getting very close to it using the RMAs. Though, we're talking, possibly, thousands of RMAs as the raffle marks are extremely rare.)


New Skyward/Celestial/Sidereal raffle/applicator marks would be nice, though.

Or perhaps, The same marks but in the different event colors. Skyward/Sidereal Speckles. Skyward/Celestial Points. Sidereal/Celestial Crumbing.

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I am trying to find a way to eloquently put into words what I am thinking in my brain, lol.

While I appreciate Katze's response, I also agree that the biggest issue here is that this is even being considered and the idea tossed around. For many, these projects are our life's work (for lack of a better term) on Lioden. When I joined back in 2016, I was absolutely drawn to the July markings not only because I loved how they looked but I enjoyed the challenge of them - the rarity, the value they held and maintained. The market is absolutely inundated with applicators and low-value lions - I had (and have) zero interest for anything that can easily be slapped together. Now I understand everyone plays the game differently - different goals, different levels of difficulty, but if we are going to call something breed-only, don't change that down the road.

I know this likely falls on deaf ears but if the July breed-only markings were to be made into applicators, my "life's work" on the game would be destroyed and I'd literally have zero interest in staying. People could argue "there are other breed only markings" but in the 3 1/2 years I've been here, this has been my only interest. And why bother with other breed-only markings if those will be threatened in the months (or years) to come? It sets a precedence. I worry because I feel like Lioden tends to be a site that is 'piss of a few to appease the many' and that poll response is a direct threat to my love for this game.

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Tldr; It’s the premises that they would even poll something like this that has people upset at this point because it sets a slippery slope for breed-onlys, stacked on examples of them not listening to feedback before and the fact that these are, to quote Abstract (also for lack of better words), “our life’s work”.

Just adding this bc I know there are gonna be people not wanting to (and won’t) read these lovely written essays.

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Thanks for the response Katze. I do appreciate staff thinking outside the box, I think we all do, we just really enjoy this game and the breed mechanic and feel strongly about how marks pass. Thank you for hearing us out, as well.

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I completely agree with not even thinking about making the breed-only marks an app-

I don't breed for marks- in fact i've practically quit the game besides my threads :o!
Though the fact that it was even a possibility to throw away half the communities hard work into the trash like that just leaves a terribly sour taste in my mouth. The half of the community that doesn't want it to happen, from what i've seen- is the very active, loyal, and overall kind half- the absolutely amazingly generous half that helped build the strong bonds in the community from the ground up. The ones that really make the game what it is in the forums, the chat, and every other social aspect.
I understand why at first it might have seemed like a neat idea! I truthfully don't blame anyone on that part ^^! But Community above all, that's what's really important. An option to both scratch at Community and overall discarding hard work- the breeding- and possible real money spent on such- is an option not even worth risking. And from my view, not even worth proposing.

Though if there were new marks for the apps, and not the breed-only marks, that would probably be better off yeah :>!

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To be honest, I'll admit I have no breeding projects including celestial. Though that doesn't mean I feel nothing for the people who will be affected by this (and are already anxious and paranoid of their years of hard work being washed away). When I saw this poll, I'll admit I couldn't read it well and it was confusing to me (don't ask how, I was tired), and I voted 'yes' for the simple reason that I thought it was something like newer marks for celestial. Of course I greatly, greatly regret it and honestly? I would change it if I could, but sadly I cannot.

However, back to the matter at hand - celestial marks have been something everyone has valued for years. Beautiful, sparkly little lions that look like literal Aphrodites in disguise when they're done right, and people "lusted" after these for good reason. Not only for the beauty but for the difficulty of the breeding, it gave people a reason to be on the site at times, to even log on daily and check through their cubs for that Quad Cele Celestial cub, even to interact with people on the site. I feel that this poll really was..a secondary thought as well, I would like to ask if - not in a rude way, mind you - the admins did think about how this would affect the community in general? Spacial marks have always been a very special thing, breed-only ones for good reason. They're practically an entire little breeding cult at this time, with, as I said previously, people spending years of their very lives getting those perfect celestial cubs to king and make their logging onto the site worthwhile.

Like I fear with everyone else, this may turn into a dividend of raffle markings just pooling into applicator markings. If these space marks go into applicators, well what's next? Margay applicators? Rosette applicators? Call it far fetched, but it's what definitely could happen if we begin slipping raffle marks into applicators that aren't RMAs. Like everyone else has said, this is definitely more a game about breeding, and not about just smacking some little applicator and poof! My lion's done, he is perfect. But, at the same time as that is taking years of breeding and smashing it over their heads, you will also be biting the market in the legs, decreasing the worth of even a full celestial male lion with a royal mane, dawn eyes and everything all perfect and dolled up; what's the most a quad sunset goes for? A gold beetle? This could be the very fate for celestial markings if they ever become an applicable marking, I fear.

Not only the breeding projects you may be tampering with, but the community as a whole. Reading through this thread, I see many people saying they will be leaving if these breed-only marks they worked so hard for, used their money on, just become little more than a few clicks away. Only a few seconds from their dream lion. I won't lie when I say I've discussed it with a few friends and have brought up more than once that a good amount of the community may just die off if you, as the admin team, bring these markings into existence. Many of the people who are afraid, who do not want these markings to exist, are the very same people who await Black Fridays and purchase as much GB as possible to support both the site as a whole and their own projects, even buying it on a whim just to get that little cub they need to make their project a success. Not only would it be detrimental to the community to release these, but it would be a harm to the site as a whole; driving away customers is no good business tactic, obviously, but this worries me to what will happen to the majority of the playerbase that do purchase gb and use it for these projects.

While the simple solution may be to just make new celestial markings, I fear the poll swinging in favor of bringing the breed-only marks into applicator form is enough to trash this entire thread. Yes, I do see that not always polls go through, but this is a very serious issue either way. It means that something in the entire administrative team said that this was a good idea, and that they should go as far as polling it - which very well could mean it could go even further to an actual item.

TL;DR: I support this thread heavily, and yeah I fear for the worst - so what? Might as well in this case, sadly, as it is genuinely a serious threat to everyone involved in a way.


also hella long post is long, have a lovely day if you read to this point

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No Support, because because

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Well said, very well said

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No support

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Lmao little late on the no support. The poll results are up and based on feedback they’re not going to make them apps “probably”.

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good

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that sucks

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Support! I am fine with storyline bases being an applicator (some applicable base/s are nice), but am hesitant with the prospect of turning breed-only bases into an easy-to-obtain applicator - if a breed-only base is turned into an applicator, any shape or form, let the applicator be difficult and expensive to obtain as an alternative, much like Interstellar's alternative to RNG. That way, it is a SB sink and still tricky to get a hold of.

Otherwise, limit the bases to breeding, not for sale in an event store.

Edit:
That being said, I wholly understand and appreciate the admins' perspective here, balance is hard, and it is clear to me that unbalancing the game is far from their intentions, nor is degrading the effort but in by marking and base breeders; a poll disallows direct feedback, that is true, but that isn't to say it isn't at least an attempt to hear user feedback on top of threads such as this one. Katze said herself that a winning option on a poll isn't necessarily final, and it's safe to assume that popular choice on those polls doesn't dictate the direction of the website.

In essence, feedback is needed for a game to flourish, but admin discretion is also very important. The transparency displayed here is excellent, and I am more than inclined to believe the userbase is being listened to, even if it isn't ultimately implemented - as users, we likely don't know the full extent of the the 'back end' reasons for a decision; some freedom should be given to the team to make changes, even if at a glance it may seem like a bad one. Conversely, user feedback is equally important to benefit the website, Lioden wouldn't have the userbase it has if feedback wasn't given and implemented.

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