Posted by [++] Lower Fertilities in Lionesses

Lukio (#7391)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2015-01-05 08:36:26

Hey everyone!

Something that has always struck me as odd is how easy it is to breed a lioness. Every article or video I've looked at about real life lioness conception shows that rates are very low. So when I saw that Very Low fertility goes up to 50% I was very surprised. Sounds pretty doable to me. So why, in a realistic sim, is getting that bun in the oven so easy?!

Here is what I propose:

• Lower fertility levels drastically to both lower cub populations and make pregnancies much more important in the game.

• Make NCLs have fertility levels no higher than average. Perhaps have a very small chance (3-5%) of getting a Goddess fertility NCL?

• Find a way to make the Average fertility levels actually be the average around Lioden.

• Have the fertility levels of High and above become more difficult to inherit.

• Revamp the coding for fertility inheritance to pass average fertility more often. *See below for explanation*


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here are the current fertility levels:
Goddess = 100%
High = 90%-99%
Good = 80%-89%
Average = 70%-79%
Low = 51-69%
Very Low = 1%-50%
Infertile = 0%

I believe we should change them to look more like this:
Goddess = 100%
Very High = 80-99%
High = 50%-79%
Good = 40%-49%
* Average = 30%-39%
Low = 20-29%
Very Low = 1%-19%
Infertile = 0%

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

* To elaborate on point 4: *
I believe we should incorporate some sort of coding into the fertility levels so that the bolded fertilities have the highest chance (50-80%) of passing on to cubs, making extremely high or low fertilities rarer.

Goddess => Goddess | Very High | High | Good | Average
Very High => Goddess | Very High | High | Good | Average
High => Very High | High | Good | Average | Low
Good => High | Good | Average | Low | Very Low
* Average => Good | Average | Low | Very Low
Low => Average | Low | Very Low
Very Low => Low | Very Low | Infertile
Infertile => Very Low | Infertile (With use of Chasteberry only)

***I am not suggesting *any* changes to the coat passing rates. I am only using the mechanics behind them as an example. ^,^ ***

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The reasoning behind this is to try and push fertility levels back down from an exceedingly easy rate of conception and back down to something a bit more challenging.

So what does this mean? Breeding becomes a bit more difficult, requiring more tries and energy. It becomes both more realistic and more of an achievement.

It also makes fertility levels more important when purchasing or selling lionesses - do you really want to have to work hard to breed that Very Low girl or would you prefer an easier (no pun intended) lioness? All of a sudden that Goddess fertility babe looks really nice...But of course, one can always fall back to Chasteberry or Tackweed as a last minute resort.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Extra Points/Notes:

• Very Low fertility lionesses will still have the greatest chance of gaining mutations. That coding/mechanic should not change at all except to modify the percentages that Very Low girls have.

• I am not suggesting *any* changes to the coat passing rates. I was only using the mechanics behind them as an example. ^,^

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Other Ideas (Not officially part of the main suggestion):

• Fertility plays a part in litter size.
(Mentioned by ::VulpesFelis:BBro:OC::.. (#17507))

Let's take the presented new fertilities:

Goddess = 3-4 (cubs)
Very High = 2-4
High = 2-3
Good = 2-3
* Average = 1-3
Low = 1-2
Very Low = 1-2
Infertile = 0

Perhaps the more fertile the lioness, the more cubs will be produced. The numbers written would be AVERAGES, but any fertility level could still give you any number of cubs.

• Limited breedings by SquiggleBoof (#45520):
"I like any idea to help curb the current lion population... however to make to make it a bit more realistic have it so you can only attempt to breed a certain number of times per day. Yes this means that sometimes your lioness wont get pregnant but hey u can try again next week right? This will further make pregnancies all the more valuable and further help reduce the number of lions."

I'm not too keen on this implementation. Maybe instead of adding a limit we could raise the energy level needed for a breeding from 5% to 10% per fail and 10% to 15% per success?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No Support: 15

~~

Cause:
a m b e r p e l t (#15417)
"I feel as if this is going to make the process of buying and breeding for cubs even more tedious than it already is."

Reply:
Lukio (#7391)
I must disagree because, with this system, the higher fertilities are meant to be very rare while average would be that: average. So, in my opinion, it could even increase the worth of some cubs with higher fertilities, while the lower fertility girls would still be wanted for mutation breeding.

~~




This suggestion has 478 supports and 55 NO supports.



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Edited on 13/11/15 @ 07:51:24 by Lukio *Lights On* (#7391)

Minimanta (#1684)

Usual
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Posted on
2015-01-07 08:58:45
If there should be a limit of breeding attempts per day it should be at least 30, lions mate for up to 40 times per day for several days when the lioness is in heat.

That should be plenty of attempts to breed most lionesses, only exception being very low females. Lower than 15% is when it takes a lot of tries to knock up a lioness in my experience.



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Lukio (#7391)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2015-01-07 09:04:23
@.::VulpesFelis:BBro:OC::.. (#17507)
@ Minimanta (#1684)

It was mostly a musing on my part, I'd be more interested in raising the energy required for each breeding instead of a cap. ^,^



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.::VulpesFelisI::.. (#17507)

Impeccable
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Posted on
2015-01-07 09:06:01
Yes, sorry for that. my last post was a bit off topic ^^'



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Lukio (#7391)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2015-01-07 09:09:00
No need to apologize, I love reading the comments and helping this idea evolve! Thank you. :)



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koben (#328)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2015-01-07 15:54:36
mostly support

cept i think that NCLs should rarely get good level fertility and very rarely get high ... sence all ncls start with low stats getting the ocassional good/high fert female would reward players.

-that and lioden is still a game its simi realistic but its a game.



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Lukio (#7391)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2015-01-08 02:27:14
@koben

Thanks for your input. ^<^ Main post updated.



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Axel (#6627)

Pervert
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Posted on
2015-01-09 22:00:52
I support this.

I feel this is how the whole thing should have been implemented. I mean, what is the reason of all these herbs anyway if I can breed any fertility with just few tries? Goddess in my opinion is nothing special right now because you get the same result from a good or average fertility one too.

To those who feel that breeding cubs will be harder than it is now: it is extremely easy right now. Some challenge cannot harm the market.

However, I dont agree with the breeding limit mentioned in the first post within the pride at least. I breed my girls at the end of their lives to produce the next hunters. There is no next week for me. That would punish those the most who have nothing to do with the cub market.



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Edited on 10/01/15 by Axel (#6627)

Lukio (#7391)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2015-01-10 04:07:49
@Axel
Thank you for your post. ^,^ Anything not in bold at the top of the post, however, is not part of the actual idea. The extra notes and just that: extra thoughts and musings.



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It's a Paradox
[Side] (#43368)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2015-01-11 06:14:41
Support but I'm not sure how I feel about the seemingly random fertility boosts and drops. I know it would be a better idea for Average to actually be the more common fertility but, currently, fertility only drops or increases by a few percentages. I don't like how, if this system were implemented, fertilities could have a chance of increasing to another fertility level simply from how common or uncommon it is. I believe it should still only increase or decrease by a small amount but, of course, it would still lean toward Average.

However, I do like how higher fertility levels would be able to birth more cubs because it would make all fertility levels matter and maybe even improve the cub market. But, I'm not so sure about having only 1 - 2 cubs for the Infertile - Low fertility girls because you still have the chance at getting a mutation with an Average - High fertility lioness. Users, even mutation watchers, may lean toward getting average fertility lionesses instead just so they can have an extra chance with the extra cub. Perhaps Very Low and Low fertility lionesses should have their chances at birthing a mutation slightly increased? (Though I would wait to see what users do, if this is added, before increasing mutation chances. We don't want to make them to common.)

I also disagree with the idea of a cap on how many times you can attempt to breed a lioness. It's not very realistic (that seems to be what we're going for with this) and I don't really see the point in it. Lower ferts would still be harder to breed with and higher ferts would still be easier to breed with. The only real reason for a cap would be to lower the amount of cubs being born but, with this, there's already a limit to how many cubs you can get with each fertility.

Edit: I could also possibly get behind the idea of an extremely low chance of a miscarry in Infertile or Very Low fertility lionesses.



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Edited on 11/01/15 by SnowyCat [Side] (#43368)

Lukio (#7391)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2015-01-11 06:28:21
@SnowyCat
I agree with you completely, but I also had to consider that, if fertility could do nothing but lower, that would be both unrealistic and a bit unfair. So I tried I have the fertility levels gravitate towards average over time while still being flexible enough to appease people who dislike the idea.



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Ignight (#34198)

Monster
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Posted on
2015-01-14 16:10:32
Totally agreed; a 'very low' lioness should NOT 50 50% in the wild. Very low makes me think like less than 10%



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Citanul (#43419)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2015-03-03 04:23:10
No support. I'm sorry, I'm not going to read the entire thread.

But, it's already hard enough to get the cubs that you want. Pass rates for markings are awful and inconsistent, and adding in difficulty breeding lionesses to that sucks. The second suggestion, for lowering amounts of cubs and such, would also contribute to this problem. For example: I have a lioness who I had since birth, bred her every time she went into heat that day, and she is no longer breedable (will likely die within this week). Not once did I get a cub out of her I wanted to keep, even with breeding her to expensive studs with markings in the same slots as hers. That's seven breedings, probably around 20 cubs, with nothing to show for it.

Not to mention, if you change all fertility levels and make it harder to breed/cost more energy, everyone will have to raise their stud prices, leaving it harder for new players to stud. Right now, most people won't stud to VLF lionesses without energy compensation of some sort, and I've heard of it taking over 100 tries before. I know I'd have to raise my price to compensate this, especially being choosy about who I stud to, to try and save my energy for the events going on.

I do like changing the fertility level NAMES though - to better reflect the percentages.



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.::VulpesFelisI::.. (#17507)

Impeccable
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Posted on
2015-03-08 00:23:10
Citnauk@ I think it is unfair to pass jugement without reading an entire idea post.

This is a breeding game (one with random genetics, yes) but that is why you have multiple of the type of markings/bases, etc in lions in your pride so you can successfully get a cub of your liking, and not just try to base it on one lion that, as you said, could go through 7 breedings and not give you a thing you wanted.
There is proof that this works, because those who do mass breeding, either for mutation projects or marking projects usually have a higher chance of getting more of those markings due to having multiple lions to work with.

I do not believe stud prices will change that drastically. Honestly, newer players tend to go for cheaper studs because they are getting a feel for the game. Most players don't try to stud to the "higher end" studs until they have been around for a bit and actually know what it is they are trying to go for. Therefore they know which stud they want to take the studding risk with.
Some studs do not accept VLF ladies but if you are trying to get a mut, you can always breed to your own lionesses. People will buy a mut even if it has the least desirable base. Muts are worth a lot no matter what coat color or markings they have. So players honestly wouldn't need an outside stud to try to get a mut.

The genetics is something that lioden will have to work on no matter what, but making fertilites accurate will actually help that genetic system a lot when it finally comes around.




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Lukio (#7391)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2015-03-08 04:33:00
@Citanul
I kind of have to agree with Vulpes. If you don't read my idea, how do you know you don't actually support it? *shakes head*

@Vulpes
Thank you for your input. ^,^



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shenanigans (#23653)


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Posted on
2015-05-14 09:27:10
Hmm... you have my support for now, though I'm not sure if this will be a good idea. For one, it will make breeding more difficult for some who really want to breed their lionesses if they can't afford enhancements, as well as the fact that a lot of users might not like this to be added in conjunction with the genetics update which has made it a lot harder to breed special based lions as well.

I'm not sure if I support that, though I definitely like the litter size decrease idea. Less cubs would mean less lions which is a good thing to me! Cub mortality and pregnancy fails would be another thing that could be looked at in the future, with items to protect cubs and the like as well.

I'm also wondering if this would make mutation appearances more common, which might not be very good, as it could be an incentive for even more breeding for VLF's and the like.



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