Posted by [Dec] Improvement direly needed

Louse
[PUTP]πŸ…ŸπŸ…πŸ…¦ (#125435)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2017-12-25 17:37:46
The December event wasn't very fun, it wasn't exactly awful but it wasn't very rewarding for what we were expected to do in the first place. This is for possible improvements, so spitballing is appreciated, no arguments. I'll be updating this as things change/ideas are thought out.

To preface: I do not hate this event, I don't hate the idea, I just would have enjoyed it more if the execution was better

Don't support these fixes? Let me know why, your idea might be good too, hell it might even be better! Let's talk, we both want Lioden to be the best it can be.

We'll start with what was GOOD about the event:

-The gifting/pooping concept was fun
-General decor/stuff in the mantis shop
-The bars to open the store was very well balanced and very fair, a vast improvement from the October event, and I'm glad to see that the data from October has been useful
-I absolutely love snuhlions even if they are bizarre and entirely useless
-The advent calendar
-The encounters in explore. I love the leggy felis, please give me leggy felis decor.
-Community effort (to a degree)

What was just plain bad:

-The absolute, dismal lack of event currency in explore (continue reading before typing up a comment about alternative methods to get stink bugs)
-Gifting/pooping having a karmic slant
-Poop not guaranteeing stink bugs, even one, coupled with the chances of getting one from a shit pile being as low as it is
-Heavy reliance on RNG and user assistance
-(By 109872 - The message after pooping implies you're an awful person, and it has more negative effects than staff things (click for more detail)

Why the pooping and stink bug issue was, well, an issue:

Event currency is not supposed to be super easy to get, but games are supposed to be at least a little fun, and trying to get stink bugs was akin to pulling teeth. Within a week, I was already fed up of the event, and had all but given up, because I knew no matter what I tried, the reward would not be satisfying enough for the effort.

Stink bugs being hard to get in explore made the site reliant on other users to "provide" stink bugs, and there's a number of issues with this and how it was executed:

-Pooping was made out to be a bad thing, and didn't indicate it gave event currency. The flavortext for leaving shit was incredibly negative, suggesting you should stay anonymous, should you choose to poop and not gift. This coupled with it not being made clear at all that poop gives stink bugs, the event was already heavily slanted towards the userbase not giving enough shits for the reward to be satisfying at the end of the event. Just in general, relying on your userbase to be the main source of event currency is a poor idea. That should have been supplementary at most.

-The shockingly low chance of getting stink bugs from poop was incredibly frustrating. I would say that it came to less than a third of chance to get a single stink bug from a shit pile, and if you didn't have valuable things to give away on the forums (more about this later) then the chances of you getting many shits to dig up is unlikely.

-Players felt the need to give away valuable items/an absurd amount of GB in order to JUST MAYBE get enough event currency. There were multiple users offering 100+GB in value in hopes of getting poops, that even then would only MAYBE give them a stink bug. When your event is that hard to get any kind of result from, your system is broken, and it needs to be changed. This wasn't just a few users deciding to do this out of fun, it was a huge thing, and too many people felt stressed about the lack of currency for this system to be actually functional. This event ended up "Pay to maybe win sort of" instead of being a community event.

Pooping and gifting shouldn't have been karma based. Why is giving holiday currency bad karma? This is heavily suggesting the staff didn't want the players to provide a shot at getting stink bugs, coupled with how hard they are to get in explore, there's not many other ways to view it. Punishing people that want to have good/neutral karma for actually helping people get event currency comes across pretty shady. There wasn't even any direct money-green esque tinfoil hat conspiracy garbage that could be pulled from it, since pouring USD into the game wouldn't give you stink bugs.

More may be added.

Regarding why having such a main user-assist focus just didn't work this event:

-The low chance of stink bugs. No matter how much people came together, the low chance of getting event currency was atrocious and held the event back. The reward at the end of the even is tier 3 and being able to buy applicators - something that just wasn't a reality for a good portion of players, even if they could dedicate an absurd amount of hours to the game - which brings me to my next point.

-This event punished those who couldn't play all hours of the day. Stink bugs being hard to get meant that an absurd amount of time each day would have to be put into the game in order to get a less than satisfying amount, if you wanted even a workable amount of stink bugs, you needed to be around a LOT. I actually experimented with this - I didn't touch my sideblog much RE exploring, but did more on my main. The results were exactly what you'd expect, someone that couldn't dedicate all the time in the world just wouldn't get a workable amount of event currency. I'm pretty much housebound bar rare visits and trips out, and I still struggled.

-Relying on your userbase for something as big as this so incredibly unwise. Have faith in your userbase, but don't put your userbase's enjoyment and reward in other people's hands. Have faith in your userbase, don't blindly trust it. User contribution to events such as this, where the main currency and reward is resting in the balance, should be supplementary at most. A way to get bonus currency and maybe help you hit that last stretch goal for the decor/apps you wanted. Making it the main/equally as influential is a bad idea that's guaranteed to cause dissatisfaction.

This is only SOME of the concerns I could raise, but these are the main ones. Now, since this is a suggestion forum, and not somewhere to just be critical, I do actually have some solutions that could be fleshed out to combat the issues brought up.:

-Have stinkbugs be more frequent and not massively userbased. Just have stinkbugs show up like they do in the other events, and have user interaction be supplementary on that front.

-If you want user assistance to stay a main feature, improve stink bug chances on shitpiles. Have most shitpiles guarantee at least one stinkbug, and have a rare chance of getting between 2-3, and have a fairly low failure rate that result in getting 0. This doesn't 100% guarantee every shit will have a stink bug, but you're also not screwing the userbase over.

-Don't make gifting/pooping karma based. This was just a bad idea overall. If you WANT there to be a karma element to the event, this wasn't the way to do it.

-Make snuhlions karma based instead! They would need to be changed up, but snuhlions could be karma based! You could build a snuhlion in someone's den, or knock one down, and gain a stink bug either way - essentially the same thing as stomping/chasing locusts in the september event, but with snuhlions. That way you can still see the majestic shitshow you construct, but it actually has a use.

-Be more upfront about pooping. Make it more obvious pooping has a shot at leaving the player stinkbugs.

-Leggy felis decor please and thank you

-(Thank you 60326) The poop message should be funny, not harsh. This whole event is a joke, there's no reason to harsh the vibe that much. Make a joke comment about it, lighten up!

More will of course be added as time goes on.

No idea how to sign this off so just. Gestures.




This suggestion has 94 supports and 16 NO supports.



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Edited on 25/12/17 @ 18:55:29 by Louse (#125435)

Aly <33 (#124168)

Wicked
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Posted on
2017-12-25 18:16:54
Support!

I believe it should be more like the Sept. event's Locust thing with Snuhlions and not at all on the poops/gifting. ^^" I think, with such a HEAVY reliance on the playerbase like you mentioned, it should not be karma-involved. :/ While it's a good idea, in theory, and we DID manage to get all the bars unlocked, I feel it was a bit of a bad move. I know they were just trying to get everyone involved, but Dec. is such a busy month for everyone, and the fact that this was the month of "team-building" to get the shop tiers opened seem a little strange to me based on how busy everyone is. It makes sense from a monthly/holiday stand point, but I personally was running around this entire month. It seemed to me like they had to release the RR level to get the bars bumped up quickly, and along with the fact that gifting/pooping apparently closes on the 25th (perhaps I missed it?? but I didn't see it written anywhere) - what if we hadn't gotten it up to Tier 3 by then? It just seemed a bit poorly executed on that front. I do also agree that Stink Bugs should at least be increased in the bundles - I had 230~ bundles, and gained like.. 20-30 StB max? And out of that 230+ maybe 15-30 were gifts. However, I can see the standpoint of this being the most difficult event of the year and not wanting to increase explore currency, so I'm fine with that the way it is. I just believe they shouldn't have relied so heavily on the playerbase on tier opening and event currency gaining. ^^" Especially with such low Stink Bug drop chances from poop, too.

Kind of a rambling thing.. I'll clarify if necessary. :p

I also agree with PastHorizon. While mine pales in comparison to that, my anxiety was not having it with the pooping message; I just felt awful pooping people because it seemed like it was a horrible choice, and I kept all my poops anon. over it. ^^"



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Louse
[PUTP]πŸ…ŸπŸ…πŸ…¦ (#125435)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2017-12-25 18:19:48
@Cheshire (Graymalkin Side) (#60326) - RE the stink bug drops: my suggestion isn't to make them incredibly easy to get, more to stop it being so heavily user-based. So either make the drops more, OR make them more frequent from poops. In october, I got 900+ beetles on each account and I'm still making a tidy profit on the top tier items when I sell them off. I do agree that I don't want it to be as easy as october was, though - that was a liiiittle ridiculous. Active players will always be more rewarded, but practically freezing them out shouldn't be how it works. Also, it's the christmas season, a VERY busy time of the year, even the most active of players may be busy. I don't celebrate christmas at all, which is why I could be online.

I like that idea re Karma, though it may need tweaks, since the gifting/pooping being karma related would possibly cause issues. Maybe gifting/pooping certain amounts each gives you new encounters? Like the 666 gifts/poops gave you bonus stuff in one of the games.

@BlockedRelic06 (#124168) - Oh, yeah the gifting/pooping stopping on the 25th as well... that's bugging me. You still have the bundle interaction box, but you can't do anything with it, so it wouldn't be pushing the boat out to let that continue until the end - thank you! I'll add that if that's ok with you?






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Edited on 25/12/17 @ 18:26:03 by Louse (#125435)

a-damn (4.1k Ice) (#109872)

Usual
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Posted on
2017-12-25 18:21:36
Thank you ^^
I should make a forum about things like that to notify people that things like that can seriously hurt someone.. The first time I pooped someone, the message I got actually made me get off the computer and sit in my room, as if I was in trouble or time out, it made me feel that bad.

An issue for gifting:
What sort of gift to send, and how many are needed to open the tiers. This caused me so much stress, I almost even had a panic attack because I was terrified I'd give them something they'd hate, or I wouldn't have any items available to sacrifice for gifting. Seriously. I kept getting major anxiety, in fear the bars wouldn't open, because some days it wouldn't budge at all.

I absolutely love this game. Hell, I'll admit to being addicted. But, every single day this entire month, I've had to battle anxiety, stress, and even hallucinations because of the event and the stress of gifting/pooping.



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Aconitira #B@H πŸ’™ (#102117)

Maneater
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Posted on
2017-12-25 18:22:35
fair enough i just guess i know people who havent had any issue lol guess its a lot of luck with the amount of encounters you get *nods nods* i can still see where youre coming from :3



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Cosandk (#103750)

Demonic
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Posted on
2017-12-25 18:22:51
I kept all of my poops anon unless it came from the poop or gift game i was a part of... even then i still didnt have all of them show who i was.
i hated it.

and thats true...
this is a really busy month.
i have like 3 essays, a bunch of tests(not even finals! im a junior in high school! I couldnt imagine college finals!)
and all sorts of school/family things going on. Doesnt seem like a good month to do the whole, team building, thing?
Maybe March? (i think its march xD) where its about the funding they do? That would be better tbh



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jakory (#9961)

Asshole
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Posted on
2017-12-25 18:24:22
I managed to get 750+ StB on my one account β€” exploring every time I got full energy but I still think there should be more StB drops while exploring (I don't care either way for poops). Since if you aren't rich, don't have any services to offer, or just busy with life you won't really get that many bundles β€” which for me accounted for about 30% of my total StB amount.



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Louse
[PUTP]πŸ…ŸπŸ…πŸ…¦ (#125435)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2017-12-25 18:28:55
@PastHorizon (NO POOP) (#109872) - People being guilt trippy and beggy in their bios didn't help with this either which I did see quite a bit, in ways that technically dodge the rules, and that was VERY annoying.

@AcoNOELtira (#102117) - the RNG was way too high to be coupled with this much reliance on players, which is the main issue. It's less "i want stink bugs" and more how just plain nonsensical the system is rip. It's like making a sandwich and putting one filling on top I guess? Like that sure is a sandwich but now it's harder to eat and kinda weird, who makes sandwiches like this now you've got mayo on your hands. You'll be able to eat it, maybe, but you're gonna have an awful time of it.

..I'm hungry now

@Jakory [BUSY] (#9961) - Exactly, I was lucky I got what I did. Reliance on users isn't something that should be done like this, mature audience or not. The bundles gave supplementary currency, but were treated like the mane main event, which was... weird.



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Edited on 25/12/17 @ 18:30:34 by Louse (#125435)

Cosandk (#103750)

Demonic
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Posted on
2017-12-25 18:29:05
Oh -
Something im not really fond of is how we get items that have no use??
Like muddy rat carcasses? Shoes?
I dont understand what those are even for?



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Anonymous (#44152)

Demonic
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Posted on
2017-12-25 18:31:00
@Cosandk those can be sold and are helpful for the next event which from what i here is all SB based

also support for this



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Louse
[PUTP]πŸ…ŸπŸ…πŸ…¦ (#125435)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2017-12-25 18:31:10
@Cosandk - The Scrooge of Lions (#103750 - I think those are for monkey business decor, muddy rat carcasses could probably be turned into a live muddy rat? (...probably, even though that's necromancy. Those monkeys are keeping something secret). Weird and pointless at first glance, though, maybe some clarification on the wallowing pit would help, I think they're for the next event too.



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Edited on 25/12/17 @ 18:32:47 by Louse (#125435)

Cosandk (#103750)

Demonic
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Posted on
2017-12-25 18:33:15
Yeah.
i know you can sell them, but they give under 10sb and unless you have like 30+, it isnt that much sb (though 1sb from it is 1 more than i had! xD)
I would be nice for people just joinin, or like me, not knowing about it, to have some clarification.



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Aconitira #B@H πŸ’™ (#102117)

Maneater
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Posted on
2017-12-25 18:33:35
theyre just junk items Cos :) you can sell em for sb they dont have a point really just a fun little thing for the pit

i suppose i understand where youre coming from louse ^.^ i still politely disagree but i acknowledge your argument ^.^



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Louse
[PUTP]πŸ…ŸπŸ…πŸ…¦ (#125435)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2017-12-25 18:35:01
@Cosandk - The Scrooge of Lions - clarification is something sorely needed

@AcoNOELtira - All's good! Some people like mayo on their hands, and there's nothing wrong with that.
In a nonmetaphorical sense I dunk my hands in slime, so yknow, there's worse.



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Anonymous (#44152)

Demonic
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Posted on
2017-12-25 18:36:13
There is some information about certain things on the wiki



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Cosandk (#103750)

Demonic
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Posted on
2017-12-25 18:38:58
Yeah but thats often times a lot of scrolling and searching. Ive done that so many times, i know where some items are by memory now.
Its honestly too much work for somethin that could be posted in the news thread for the month or in the wallowing pit even.



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