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| Posted by | The Great Genetic Reorganization (100 Supports!) |
 KyraG ||Clean Hematite|| (#66273) Apocalyptic View Forum Posts  Posted on 2019-07-23 00:52:36 |
WARNING: The linked spreadsheet is image heavy. _________________________________________________________________________________________________ I knew that Lioden's base color genetics were... odd. I looked at Typhon's Genetic Rehaul Suggestion and Minubell's Combine Similar Bases Suggestion, and realized that these could easily be combined. A complete rehaul of what Lioden has done with their bases, based on visually what makes sense... ... Or at least some sense, in Labradorite's case. Uhg. Without further ado, here is my spreadsheet of my interpretation of a Genetic Reorganization. References from Typhon's and Minubell's threads have been taken with permission, and the sheet is mocked in the style of the Lioden Wiki Genetics page. I'll give you a minute to peruse the sheet, compare between it and the official genetics page. gentle elevator music Now that you're back, I'm sure you have questions. I'll preemptively answer some of them:
I'm sure there's things I missed, I'm also sure there's things here that not everyone agrees with. This is not taking into account what people are doing breeding wise, no taking into account common / uncommon / special, no denoting their specialties (such as NCL only, combo), nothing like that. This is just a straight up visual interpretation of what the genetics ought to be based upon what structure we have. Please feel free to support, ask any questions, comment on what you like, comment on what changes can be made. If there's any glaring issues, I'll update the sheet and mark the changes on this post. Thank you for your time. _______________________ EDIT July 24 2019: The following changes have occurred:
EDIT July 26th 2019: The following changes have occurred:
EDIT August 10 2019: I am updating for the new August bases! Please wait warmly. You get it, warmly, because it's August and it's the drought season and- I'll see myself out.
If you see anything you don't like, please let me know! Dislike the whole idea? Tell me why! Thank you for reading. <3 |
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🎈 Side Culibra🎈 (#147189) Lone Wanderer View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-07-27 20:12:15 |
Yes! I fully support this. I would even do as much to go through the bases and sort them if it meant this being changed!  0 players like this post! Like? |
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KyraG ||Clean Hematite|| (#66273) Apocalyptic View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-07-27 20:25:57 |
@Jambo I think it's less base sorting and more a whole recoding effort lmao __ Hey folks - so I've done one theoretical sheet for the Iridescent Shade, should I do another theoretical sheet with popular user-made bases? It won't be as clean image-wise, since I'd have to stick with the images given by the base creator, but it could give more ideas as to what could go where ie Iridescent and such. Plus I just really love some of the base suggestions listen folks here got good ideas 0 players like this post! Like? |
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🎈 Side Culibra🎈 (#147189) Lone Wanderer View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-07-27 20:27:31 |
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Blue Pigeon 🐦 (#68580)
Warrior View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-07-27 23:48:37 |
Whilst I do support the first sheet you made (putting colours where they make much more sense) instead of sorting other people’s base suggestions into iridescent genetics, maybe place them into the genetic layout we have now to show how to solve the issue of some genetic groups having very few bases within them after the sorting. Whilst I understand the appeal of a iridescent genetic group, it goes beyond the simple reorganisation advertised in this suggestion and starts to go into tampering the system behind genetics which is not what this suggestion is about. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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KyraG ||Clean Hematite|| (#66273) Apocalyptic View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-07-28 00:18:50 |
@Blue Pigeon That makes sense. I ought to leave the Iridescent sheet alone. I made that more to give visual to Xylax for his consideration, so I should let it rest in peace. In that case, I can make a new sheet that adds in player suggested bases and leave Iridescent out of it. My only additional question, in that case, is do I make a section for Green? I like the green base ideas, however we've only been barely teased with Olive and lately Murk, since basic Green is just a joke. Again that's fussing with things that don't exist, similar to Iridescent, and perhaps maybe shouldn't be something I tamper with, but that also leaves out a lot of excellent Green base ideas. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Blue Pigeon 🐦 (#68580)
Warrior View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-07-28 01:29:45 |
I would just say that if you are going to include green bases, try and put them within the current system but maybe note within the list based sheet where you would put them within a green genetics group. Or alternatively add a new suggestion thread completely for a green genetics group using this broadsheet - linking it to a sheet where you have put the current green bases and suggested green bases into a new genetics group. You can then link to this suggestion from this one and vice versa It may take a bit more effort, but I feel when making suggestions it is best to focus on one change in each, otherwise it becomes overly complicated and means that it becomes difficult to tell which part people support and don't support. (For example, I would support a resorting of the bases in the genetic groups and a new green group but would not support an iridescent shade. It would just become too complicated trying to find out what people support, don't support and why) 0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 28/07/19 @ 01:40:57 by Blue Pigeon 🐦 (#68580) |
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Desolace, Colorbomb (#36375)
Phoenix View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-07-28 01:38:47 |
How have you solved the issue of some categories holding more rare and special bases where others do not? Black countershaded has all specials and rares in Dark, except Pewter. Black solid, the same except for obsidian and possibly onyx. Red is in the same boat. Unless some rare/special bases were made into uncommon/common, I dont see the current concept working, even though the color strategy pleases the eye. Once again, I like the concept, but there are colors that dont belong in some groups. Blues dont belong in black, greens dont belong in cream (Olive) or Golden. Pulsar is purple and should be in a lighter group than Dark Countershaded. Again Im not sold on this model. They need specific color groups, not bottleneck them into 4 generic groups. Its too general having only 4 color groups generalized between countershaded and solid. Thats the reason this whole thing started to begin with. Lumping colors where they really dont have a good reason to be due to lack of broader color choices. By broadening the groups, the LD artists would have more freedom to choose groupings, as well, breeders would have more of a target, and combo breeders could have a larger array of color combo bases to choose from or breed for. LD could even bring in surprise mystery bases, breed Golden to Blue...hmmmm...what could that get you?? Maybe special combo green bases, or breed Purple to Cream, that might get you some neat combos! However, only adding one single "iridescent" group will still cause bottlenecking and in 2 years, we will be back where we started. Instead of 4 color groups, broaden it out. This way, specials can stay special, rares an stay rares, they will just be shifted to a new category and new bases can be added in to fill the gaps: Green Brown Red Purple Blue Black Cream/white Gold I have to ask though, what is your criteria for iridescent? Is it sparkles, gem applicators, event bases? Cuz I see Chatoyant and Anubis and Brimstone sitting in Countershaded not in iridescent, they are sparkly event bases. Why is Cinnabar in iridescent, thats solid and not sparkly? Why is Ruby in Countershaded? Velvet and Nuumite are sparkly, but not in iridescent too. Demiurge? Why is Nadir in iridescent, its solid, not sparkly or dazzling or luminous. Im not seeing a logical reason for some bases to be in there and others not. ir·i·des·cent /ˌirəˈdes(ə)nt/ adjective showing luminous colors that seem to change when seen from different angles. "the drake's head has an iridescent purple sheen" synonyms: shimmering, shimmery, glittering, sparkling, coruscating, dazzling, shining, gleaming, glowing, lustrous, scintillating, dancing, opalescent, opaline; It seems that if there is an Iridescent group, then bases will multiple color shades, like pulsar, Chatoyant, Gilded, all should be included. I like that the colors lay out in their respective groups in sheet 2, but Im seeing again the same issue with just too few groups bases can be placed in. 4 isnt enough. There needs to be more groups. 0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 28/07/19 @ 02:01:47 by Desolace, Nadir Ferus (#36375) |
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KyraG ||Clean Hematite|| (#66273) Apocalyptic View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-07-28 01:56:01 |
@BluePigeon I saw another suggestion regarding Green as a base, which is why I thought of it in the first place. But your points are all valid, thank you muchly. @Desolace I didn't focus on specials at all, that wasn't my take for this. I strictly stuck with appearance. I don't know enough about the rarities, just that uncommon and rare roll the same and special roll ridiculously low and common wants you to gouge out your eyes with fifty million dun cubs kms Xylax and the other color creators would have to divvy that up themselves, because that's just beyond my purview. They'd need to fix how the rarities work, then need to fix the fact that they love sticking specials in all of like... two places. "Pleasing to the eye" was my sole focus for this. Hmm. Your idea is far more radical than my own, and is exactly the sort of breakdown I think LD is trying to avoid by not placing green bases in the game (besides Xylax apparently hating green? if I've heard that right). They have a very specific buildup, but as you've stated it has created a total bottleneck and has created colors going in places where they clearly don't belong. I think your idea of spacing it out so drastically would fall under like what Pigeon says - make a whole new suggestion so that there aren't too many ideas within one suggestion. That's not something I'd mind figuring, since more choices, but I'd also need to hear from the head honcho himself what he thinks of spacing and splitting. Iridescent as a group is an absolute garbage move imo, it looked like trash when I gave it a shot, hence why I chose to stick it as a Shade. I'm still unsure of it, though, especially if splitting and spreading the groups fixes the problems that would otherwise be fixed by Iridescent. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Desolace, Colorbomb (#36375)
Phoenix View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-07-28 02:11:07 |
@Kyra, Actually, as it sets, many of the bases as they exist would stay the same. The base groups would change, but would stay in their "Solid Rare" groups, only the color condition would change. So, say Olive, which is in cream dark countershaded special, would move to Olive Green Dark Countershaded Special, its actual state of being would not change, it would just be itemized better. Any yeah, Xylax may say he doesn't like green, but there has been a call for it, and those folks who dont like a certain color group, could easily avoid having a green cub by not breeding that group. Just like breeding black should not pop out brown. I could avoid brown cubs, if I dont breed my onyx king to a lioness from a brown group. However, if I wanted variety, and possible combos, breeding across so many base color groups would make for more variety and make it easier on the LD artists to decide where these bases would go. I would make a new suggestion, but I am not good on making suggestion threads. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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KyraG ||Clean Hematite|| (#66273) Apocalyptic View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-07-28 02:19:25 |
@Desolace Oooh. Eugh, I still think that whole system needs redone anyways. Especially with how many sections within the game presently are already sparse on uncommons and rares, and like black are super heavy on specials. It's an odd mess that would mess with breeding percentages. And definitely on there being a call. Xylax can't ignore just how many people want more colorful bases, which includes purples and greens. There's a lot of excellent suggestions out there, and they shouldn't be ignored just because the system to support it doesn't yet exist. I might make the suggestion, utilizing my sheet setup since I've got it made. Buuuuut I'll need another day to make the sheet, sort it out, get all my ducks in a row and what have ya. I'll definitely take your suggestions while making it, though, you've got solid ideas. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Desolace, Colorbomb (#36375)
Phoenix View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-07-28 02:26:26 |
@Kyra, thank you for taking a look at what Ive mentioned. No hurry, my ideas are super baby alpha too. I agree, blacks have a TON of specials. Reds really needs help, they put so much brown into it filling in the gaps, same with cream. I stopped breeding red bases because I get so sick of brown bases. Black Solid has just chestnut lol I chase chestnut cubs...unless they are mutated of course!  Your colors are on par though, dont get me wrong there. Im just trying to wrap my head around iridescent and whats its criteria is. And in line with that, if we had more color groupings, bases like green or labradorite might find a logical home. There will be gaps, there was when they started this current model, and it certainly will take time to fill, but as you said, there are loads of great suggestions and bases offered that Im sure it wont take too long to start filling it up. In 2 years they really filled the gaps quickly and there are loads of great bases now. They just need fine tuning. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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KyraG ||Clean Hematite|| (#66273) Apocalyptic View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-07-28 02:43:37 |
@Desolace Honestly? Iridescent as an idea seems like a "dumping ground", whether it be shade or color group. That's what it read in Xylax's idea, anyways - it's where the weird bases go. Granted, Black Medium Countershaded is currently the dumping ground and that's just highly unfortunate for a grayscale breeder like myself. Labradorite? Having a logical home? l o l Thank you very much, Desolace. I'll admit, I don't remember what the old model was; I took several extended hiatuses, and a lot of things changed between each one. But you're right, just a couple years changes a lot of things, and between user suggestions and the ideas that Xylax already has, it would likely be fairly alright. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Desolace, Colorbomb (#36375)
Phoenix View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-07-28 02:57:25 |
Oh I know, Lab is nuts. I think it is going to have to be dissected. When I look at Lab, I see mostly blue and cream on top and a splash of brown and black on bottom. So Ill get off topic for a moment and break it down, hopefully I wont distract you too much from your topic lol.  The largest cover and most noticeable for me is the blue, it phases into the cream further than any of the other colors blending into eachother. If that makes sense.  To me this base should be a combo base, between blue (black as it sits now) and cream. Not an app base. I think the current app should be changed over to an eye app and the base made into a combo only. And it REALLY does not belong in golden. I could see it in cream, or even black because under the current model, blue is under the Black section and its got black paws and a blue back, and even a touch of the dreaded chestnut in there.  0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 28/07/19 @ 02:58:50 by Desolace, Nadir Ferus (#36375) |
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KyraG ||Clean Hematite|| (#66273) Apocalyptic View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-07-28 03:05:14 |
That blue is what I see first and foremost as well, which is why I moved it to Blacks. Cream would be the second best, but I think it's just a clusterfuck no matter what's decided lmao. It doesn't even look like the stone, which has that hot red and yellow in it with little in the way of creams and browns, and is heavily striated if I recall correctly. Not so much of this wave business that it currently has going on. Having it be a combo breed-only base would make it interesting, at least. To make up for it's ugliness.  0 players like this post! Like? |
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Desolace, Colorbomb (#36375)
Phoenix View Forum Posts Posted on 2019-07-28 03:12:44 |
Yeah, a surprise combo base "You bred Dove Gray with Light Cream! Surprise!"  0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 28/07/19 @ 03:12:56 by Desolace, Nadir Ferus (#36375) |
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